has it already begun?

[Darrell Green Fan]

i havent mentioned wilson at all

Yeah sorry Dad, I meant to say Shark but it wouldn't let me correct after I realized it.

 

[skinsdad62]

my take is its 2 bad games , players go through slumps , so 2 games wont phase me . KC doesnt have 32 starts . he has about 27 and THAT is way too early to give up on a qb also add in he has had only one full season as a starter and he set team records

now we get to game 4 or 5 then you get concerned

but another thing is we bought into this fools gold about our team . the coaches and fans believe the team is better then it is and the only person who doesnt think that way

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I have not said being critical of the QB is some how different than other fan bases. But seriously, what other fan bases have you seen ready to crucify the QB as the primary problem when they have had the issues we have had?? For forks sake, Romo got more love after a five INT game. And again show me another situation where a coach is being called out, not for his poor game plan or the team losing... but for how he handles the current QB and how it was different from what he did with the last QB?? IM fine with being critical of Kirk.. but seriously the idea that we lost.. not because the defense played poorly, or because the game plan was predictable. Yes Kirk missed some opportunities, alot of them in fact. We are 0-2 not just because the QB played poorly, the TEAM failed, the coaching failed.

This is a good reply. Look we all agree the defense, the play calling, the lack of coaching adjustments etc played a big part. This has been acknowledged. But the conversation has centered around Kirk because he is by far the player who is the most responsible for our success or failure not just this year bur for the next 15. And again the argument that it was only 2 bad games isn't valid, it's been more like 17 bad ones in 34 games. He is the new "50/50" and that is just not good enough.

SM has proven that he can build a defense given time. You are correct, past results to do not guarantee future returns. But I like our chances now certainly better than we we had others in charge of personnel. And if we had a good QB (not Brady level, but good) that player can overcome a ton of other problems and keep us competitive until we can complete the roster. If Kirk is not good, and it's beginning to look that way more and more, then we are virtually starting over. Again.

So yeah Kirk has been the focus, and for good reason.

 

[Sharkinva]

This is a good reply. Look we all agree the defense, the play calling, the lack of coaching adjustments etc played a big part. This has been acknowledged. But the conversation has centered around Kirk because he is by far the player who is the most responsible for our success or failure not just this year bur for the next 15. And again the argument that it was only 2 bad games isn't valid, it's been more like 17 bad ones in 34 games. He is the new "50/50" and that is just not good enough.

SM has proven that he can build a defense given time. You are correct, past results to do not guarantee future returns. But I like our chances now certainly better than we we had others in charge of personnel. And if we had a good QB (not Brady level, but good) that player can overcome a ton of other problems and keep us competitive until we can complete the roster. If Kirk is not good, and it's beginning to look that way more and more, then we are virtually starting over. Again.

So yeah Kirk has been the focus, and for good reason.

And this is where we disagree. One player should not BE the focus. Should Kirk play a very important role?? Yes of course he should. But if we are to live or die based on QB play alone ( and this is basically what you are saying) then we are basically no better than the Cowboys of 2015. You mentioned Brady, the Patriots have a TEAM, which is why they are not currently 0-2 despite Brady being out for the first four games. Kirk is not Brady, he isnt and will never be Cam Newton. He will never make your heart flutter with his electric runs for 70 yards. What he can and should be is some one along the Alex Smith line. A good QB, who yes does need some help not just from his receivers, but also his running game.. and got damnit the defense as well. Face it, if we were 2-0 right now instead of 0-2, the talk would be more like, Kirk needs to knock the rust off and get his timing down. But we are 0-2 so that becomes Kirk is horrid and may never be more than horrid. And he is the primary reason we are 0-2.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

And this is where we disagree. One player should not BE the focus. Should Kirk play a very important role?? Yes of course he should. But if we are to live or die based on QB play alone ( and this is basically what you are saying) then we are basically no better than the Cowboys of 2015. You mentioned Brady, the Patriots have a TEAM, which is why they are not currently 0-2 despite Brady being out for the first four games. Kirk is not Brady, he isnt and will never be Cam Newton. He will never make your heart flutter with his electric runs for 70 yards. What he can and should be is some one along the Alex Smith line. A good QB, who yes does need some help not just from his receivers, but also his running game.. and got damnit the defense as well. Face it, if we were 2-0 right now instead of 0-2, the talk would be more like, Kirk needs to knock the rust off and get his timing down. But we are 0-2 so that becomes Kirk is horrid and may never be more than horrid. And he is the primary reason we are 0-2.

If the expectation is for Cousins to be the next Alex Smith then no way in hell should they sign him for a multi-year $20+ million/yr contract. BTW - Alex Smith remains one of SM's biggest mistakes in his drafting career.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

but another thing is we bought into this fools gold about our team . the coaches and fans believe the team is better then it is and the only person who doesnt think that way

What is the biggest difference between last year's team and this year? The play of the QB. The defense is pretty much the exact same personnel with the same coordinator and with one big improvement at corner and a better nickel linebacker.

Had Kirk continued on his "record setting" level of performance we beat the Boys and are at least competitive with Pittsburg. And that boys and girls is why the QB gets so much focus.

 

[Sharkinva]

If the expectation is for Cousins to be the next Alex Smith then no way in hell should they sign him for a multi-year $20+ million/yr contract. BTW - Alex Smith remains one of SM's biggest mistakes in his drafting career.

The going rate for starting QBs is $18-20 million per year. You can bitch gripe and moan that a guy is over paid, but it is what it is. OH and guess how much Smith makes on average. $17m

And how in the hell can you say a guy who has been in the league for 11 years and started most of those was a mistake??

 

[Sharkinva]

What is the biggest difference between last year's team and this year? The play of the QB. The defense is pretty much the exact same personnel with the same coordinator and with one big improvement at corner and a better nickel linebacker.

Had Kirk continued on his "record setting" level of performance we beat the Boys and are at least competitive with Pittsburg. And that boys and girls is why the QB gets so much focus.

Again... if your QB has got to perform at a record setting level just to be good enough, something is seriously wrong with your expectations. And had the defense been able to stop or even SLOW the Cowboys down on one of their ten play plus drives... We likely beat them. Yes Kirk threw a Redzone INT..... the Defense allowed Dallas to march 80 yards and take the lead.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

my take is its 2 bad games , players go through slumps , so 2 games wont phase me . KC doesnt have 32 starts . he has about 27 and THAT is way too early to give up on a qb also add in he has had only one full season as a starter and he set team records

now we get to game 4 or 5 then you get concerned

but another thing is we bought into this fools gold about our team . the coaches and fans believe the team is better then it is and the only person who doesnt think that way

Agree. However - the real monkey on Cousins' back is his inability to beat a winning/good team (& minimizing mistakes). I know - I know - it is up to more than just the QB, but the perception is the he can't beat a winner. Hopefully - he does this soon - maybe this weekend.

I don't overvalue the current team & am willing to be patient. All that I care about rt now is a win on Sun. HTTR

 

[SoCalWizFan]

The going rate for starting QBs is $18-20 million per year. You can bitch gripe and moan that a guy is over paid, but it is what it is. OH and guess how much Smith makes on average. $17m

And how in the hell can you say a guy who has been in the league for 11 years and started most of those was a mistake??

Because he did not draft one Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Sportster 72]

The going rate for starting QBs is $18-20 million per year. You can bitch gripe and moan that a guy is over paid, but it is what it is. OH and guess how much Smith makes on average. $17m

And how in the hell can you say a guy who has been in the league for 11 years and started most of those was a mistake??

Right now the biggest difference is 14 games.

 

[Sharkinva]

Because he did not draft one Aaron Rodgers.

Come on dude.. hind site is always 20/20. If thats the was we are going to look at it... every GM is an idiot for passing on Brady for 5 rounds each. Fuck the entire league missed on some guy named Tony Romo. You cant pride a guy for drafting the best guy he see's as available.. then bust his chops for NOT taking the guy you thought he should have. Especially when the guy he did draft has been in the league or 11 years now.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Come on dude.. hind site is always 20/20. If thats the was we are going to look at it... every GM is an idiot for passing on Brady for 5 rounds each. Fuck the entire league missed on some guy named Tony Romo. You cant pride a guy for drafting the best guy he see's as available.. then bust his chops for NOT taking the guy you thought he should have. Especially when the guy he did draft has been in the league or 11 years now.

I should rephrase that. SM is the one who stated that this pick is one of the bigger regrets of his career although it did appear reasonable at the time. No big deal. Man - you should go to Busch Gardens on Sun. This stuff is not really worth getting worked up over. Peace.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Come on dude.. hind site is always 20/20. If thats the was we are going to look at it... every GM is an idiot for passing on Brady for 5 rounds each. Fuck the entire league missed on some guy named Tony Romo. You cant pride a guy for drafting the best guy he see's as available.. then bust his chops for NOT taking the guy you thought he should have. Especially when the guy he did draft has been in the league or 11 years now.

2005 NFL Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whew - look at that draft. Some real stinkers in there. In between Smith & Rodgers you have the great D Ware and the almost as great Thomas Davis. Beyond that - mainly a bunch of busts and washouts. The QBs beyond those two pretty much stink (except for Orton for a short stretch).

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

And this is where we disagree. One player should not BE the focus. Should Kirk play a very important role?? Yes of course he should. But if we are to live or die based on QB play alone ( and this is basically what you are saying) then we are basically no better than the Cowboys of 2015. You mentioned Brady, the Patriots have a TEAM, which is why they are not currently 0-2 despite Brady being out for the first four games. Kirk is not Brady, he isnt and will never be Cam Newton. He will never make your heart flutter with his electric runs for 70 yards. What he can and should be is some one along the Alex Smith line. A good QB, who yes does need some help not just from his receivers, but also his running game.. and got damnit the defense as well. Face it, if we were 2-0 right now instead of 0-2, the talk would be more like, Kirk needs to knock the rust off and get his timing down. But we are 0-2 so that becomes Kirk is horrid and may never be more than horrid. And he is the primary reason we are 0-2.

We have beaten this thing to death and at this point it would be like a Hillary supporter trying to convince a Trump supporter and vice versa.

Of course a complete team is necessary to get to the top, no one player can ever do it all. But if you still don't understand the value of a good QB, and how not having one will make it an uphill battle that won't be won over the long haul very often, I honestly have no idea what game you are watching.

Name me a team that had an average or worse QB that won anything over the long haul. I can think of only 2: Baltimore and the Giants. Know what they both have? Average QBs who play HUGE in the biggest moments. Know what we have: A QB who does the complete opposite.

 

[Sharkinva]

We have beaten this thing to death and at this point it would be like a Hillary supporter trying to convince a Trump supporter and vice versa.

Of course a complete team is necessary to get to the top, no one player can ever do it all. And of course there are the rare exceptions to the good QB theory but few of those teams won over any length of time. If you still don't understand the value of a good QB, and how not having one will make it an uphill battle that won't be won over the long haul very often, I honestly have no idea what game you are watching.

I will say it like this and we can agree to end it.

Yes i can understand the value of a good QB. But I think when you put any QB in a situation like we did with Kirk these past two games (responsible for 75% of the offensive production, with no defensive help) Almost any QB could look bad in that situation. I think Kirk can and will be a good QB... but not if we keep asking him to do the damn near impossible on a weekly basis, then crucify him for not being able to do it. Can he play better, sure. But if the game plan is the same, the defense is just as bad... any one expecting differently is delusional.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I will say it like this and we can agree to end it.

Yes i can understand the value of a good QB. But I think when you put any QB in a situation like we did with Kirk these past two games (responsible for 75% of the offensive production, with no defensive help) Almost any QB could look bad in that situation. I think Kirk can and will be a good QB... but not if we keep asking him to do the damn near impossible on a weekly basis, then crucify him for not being able to do it. Can he play better, sure. But if the game plan is the same, the defense is just as bad... any one expecting differently is delusional.

Oh I think we all agree that the pass run ratio was out of balance. But going back to your earlier post if he can't be counted on to throw 40 points a game in today's NFL, where those figures are routine, then he is limited and of no use over the long haul. Sorry my bar is higher than a limited QB who needs to be coddled.

Anyway let's move on. Who do we want to trash now?

 

[ehb5]

The going rate for starting QBs is $18-20 million per year. You can bitch gripe and moan that a guy is over paid, but it is what it is. OH and guess how much Smith makes on average. $17m

And how in the hell can you say a guy who has been in the league for 11 years and started most of those was a mistake??

I know we've been down this road before but just because QBs make a lot of money does not mean it is GOOD to pay alex smith 17 mil a year. Sorry but the odds of alex smith winning a super bowl are very small. I prefer a better qb than alex smith. Either way I would agree with you that we need to build the team as a whole. A franchise qb alone is not enough. Every qb needs some help.

 

[Stymietee]

For those of you who want to go all RG3 and all of that bullshit, I'll just say this. Get over it!! This has nothing to do with anything but this season's iteration of our football team just as last year was. Nor does it have anything to do with you convincing yourself that others have a view, love, or lack of "True Fandom" of this team. You don't have the power nor the authority to define what a real fan is except in your world where insecurities exist because others are either more or less passionate than you.

Relax, pour or twist yourself one and finally realize that everyone here wants the best for this team. We may agree or [shudder] disagree on how that should be accomplished, but do you really think that our team is not doing the best that they can because of personnel no longer on the team or because some fan on a blog site says so? Perspective is a very valuable tool to have when dealing with others. This is especially true on a site like this where it serves the greater good when the reader knows the difference between a post based on emotion, supposition and sarcasm or one delivered with the intent to enlighten, broaden the conversation and add to the general good nature of your fellow posters.

 

[Sharkinva]

Oh I think we all agree that the pass run ratio was out of balance. But going back to your earlier post if he can't be counted on to throw 40 points a game in today's NFL, where those figures are routine, then he is limited and of no use over the long haul. Sorry my bar is higher than a limited QB who needs to be coddled.

Anyway let's move on. Who do we want to trash now?

I think you are saying good, but thinking elite. But you are right.. lets move on.. How about that D-line though.