has it already begun?

[Caliskinsfan]

The real reason is, this fan base in General has PTSD crossed with abused puppy syndrome when it comes to the QB situation. Combine that with a desire for instant gratification, and short of being damn near perfect, I dont think Kirk or any other QB could do enough to win some of these fans over at this point. Yea, the last four years at QB have alot to do with it, and yes there is still a portion of the fan base suffering from group butt hurt over the whole Griffin thing. But seriously, this is the only fan base i have ever seen ready to lynch the QB after two bad games when the defense did in fact play worse. This is the only fan base I STILL see fractured over how the last QB was treated vs how the current QB was treated. And sadly race also does play a factor in it this time as well. I mean people are actually calling the coach out with lines like, Gruden wasnt this supportive of Griffin after a bad game. So yea, the butt hurt does linger. At the end of the day, the real reasons are PTSD, a want/need for instant gratification... and a fair degree of good old fashioned butt hurt.

People seem to think I am saying some are being too hard on Kirk.. far from it. But I think there are some unrealistic expectations when they say well he wanted to be paid like a franchise QB. He wanted to be paid like a starter, not a well paid backup. The man cant have one bad game, much less two at this point. And I still ask, what realistic person says well the defense is giving up 32 points a game, but the main reason we lost is because the QB couldnt score 50. Any place outside of DC, fans would be outside Joe Barrys house with pitch forks.

Good explanation of your reasoning Shark.

 

[ehb5]

I know you are older than 15, so I shouldnt have to explain this... Right now a good portion of this fan base is like some one that thought they had found their one true love, and then got cheated on. Now we have moved onto the next one.. sort of. But alot of the fan base is still watching Kirk with that thought in the back of their heads.. .I know he's going to screw us over . In a situation like we are in... short of being damn near flawless, Kirk will never win some of these fans over. And the moment he has a bad stretch ( and yes ALL QBs have bad stretches) many are more than willing to crucify him.

Note I didnt say, you, or mention any one on this board. We all know whats really in our heads. Its not a conspiracy theory, its just a part of human nature. So yea, like some one who has been burned.. .we all HOPE Kirk turns out to be Mr right, but many are expecting him to burn us again.

Maybe youre right maybe you arent. I dont live near DC (Im surrounded by Eagles and Steelers fans ) so my main interactions with Skins fans are on this message board and with the handful of skins people I follow on twitter. And from what I see on twitter and this board nobody is rooting against anybody in a redskins uniform.

I dont really think theres anything wrong with fans having it in the back of their head that things will go wrong. It doesnt mean they want that to happen. Youve stated some fans root against Kirk (including me in the past). Thats not even remotely the same as being concerned about his play. You cant get mad at people for expecting him to fail. Thats just a different opinion than yours. And for the record I did say before this season I expected him to end up in a Matt Staffordy area. Which I dont really think is all that great, but Im assuming is good enough for you. Which at that point is just arguing team building philosophy not anything about Kirk.

I know Ive gone over this before but Ill try one more time. I...
1) wanted Kirk to be named starter last year and was happy when he was
2) I said he shouldve started all last year pretty much regardless of results
3) I wanted us to resign (depending on terms) or franchise tag him for this year
4) Ive said explicitly its only been 2 games and he has time to turn it around
5) Ive said that no matter what happens he should start every game for us this year

Im just not sure how that comes out to "Im rooting against Kirk". I absolutely have my concerns with him and have for the past 2 years but that doesnt mean im rooting against him. I liked him coming out of college and defended the pick for Pete's sake. This is why I say youre pulling out conspiracy theories.
And I know right now youre not accusing me of rooting against him but you hint at people on this board doing so and in the past have outright said you think I do.

 

[Sharkinva]

Maybe youre right maybe you arent. I dont live near DC (Im surrounded by Eagles and Steelers fans ) so my main interactions with Skins fans are on this message board and with the handful of skins people I follow on twitter. And from what I see on twitter and this board nobody is rooting against anybody in a redskins uniform.

I dont really think theres anything wrong with fans having it in the back of their head that things will go wrong. It doesnt mean they want that to happen. Youve stated some fans root against Kirk (including me in the past). Thats not even remotely the same as being concerned about his play. You cant get mad at people for expecting him to fail. Thats just a different opinion than yours. And for the record I did say before this season I expected him to end up in a Matt Staffordy area. Which I dont really think is all that great, but Im assuming is good enough for you. Which at that point is just arguing team building philosophy not anything about Kirk.

I know Ive gone over this before but Ill try one more time. I...
1) wanted Kirk to be named starter last year and was happy when he was
2) I said he shouldve started all last year pretty much regardless of results
3) I wanted us to resign (depending on terms) or franchise tag him for this year
4) Ive said explicitly its only been 2 games and he has time to turn it around
5) Ive said that no matter what happens he should start every game for us this year

Im just not sure how that comes out to "Im rooting against Kirk". I absolutely have my concerns with him and have for the past 2 years but that doesnt mean im rooting against him. I liked him coming out of college and defended the pick for Pete's sake. This is why I say youre pulling out conspiracy theories.
And I know right now youre not accusing me of rooting against him but you hint at people on this board doing so and in the past have outright said you think I do.

Again Dude, when have i said you in particular?? Do I think you were a part of the RG3 defense force.. yes. Do I think some fans are passively rooting against Kirk.. yes. And I know some fans are actively hoping he fails.

 

[Sportster 72]

Complete sarcasm I hope. If Cousins had already won 1 SB, played in another & been to numerous playoff games nobody would be questioning his future role with the team.

I guess you decided to answer before reading further down.

 

[BeaReylo]

Again Dude, when have i said you in particular?? Do I think you were a part of the RG3 defense force.. yes. Do I think some fans are passively rooting against Kirk.. yes. And I know some fans are actively hoping he fails.

That's really a shame too. Last time I checked a fan was suppose to care more about the name on the front of the jersey not the back.

 

[Sharkinva]

That's really a shame too. Last time I checked a fan was suppose to care more about the name on the front of the jersey not the back.

Oh I agree. But if you have listened to some of the sports talk shows this week with fans calling in, or read some of the comments in the local as well as national press. There are a good number of Redskins fans more concerned with the idea that Gruden wasn't as critical of Cousins as he had been of RG3. AS I have stated, the Butt Hurt is still real and lingering. Makes me wonder what its really going to take for a portion of this fan base to get over the RG3 episode. Feels like we would have to have a QB that won League MVP, took us to a Super Bowl, and might actually have to win it. That might be enough to get over it.... maybe.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Again Dude, when have i said you in particular?? Do I think you were a part of the RG3 defense force.. yes. Do I think some fans are passively rooting against Kirk.. yes. And I know some fans are actively hoping he fails.

As you know I was the last of the Griffin supporters. But eventually I saw that ship has sailed and I threw my total support behind Kirk. Sure there may be a very small segment of the fanbase who still thinks Griff was treated unfairly and of that group an even smaller subset who is rooting for Kirk to fail. But it is such a small group it's not worth mentioning and it sure doesn't include me or anyone else on this board. So this needs to stop, nobody here would rather been proven right on a message board than have our team find a long term answer at QB.

Next you really need to back away from the whole "it's only been 2 games" approach. You act as if Kirk has been Aaron Rogers and fans are jumping on him after only 2 bad games. As has been pointed out in this thread numerous times it hasn't been 2 bad games, it has been 15-20 out of 33. The pattern of poor decisions and horrible picks, the inabiltiy or unwillingness to move in the pocket and make something out of a broken play, the inaccurate arm at times and maybe most glaring the pattern of showing up small in the biggest games is very very concerning. And it didn't start 2 weeks ago.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I guess you decided to answer before reading further down.

Huh? I responded to one post that was basically one sentence & again I am guessing that you were being sarcastic. Am I supposed to scan the entire thread or board before responding? Oh well - doesn't matter all is good & people need to chill & just focus on this week's game. I really, really hope that Kirk has a great game (& that others on the Skins have a good game) for his benefit & to put this in balance. HTTR.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

The real reason is, this fan base in General has PTSD crossed with abused puppy syndrome when it comes to the QB situation. Combine that with a desire for instant gratification, and short of being damn near perfect, I dont think Kirk or any other QB could do enough to win some of these fans over at this point. Yea, the last four years at QB have alot to do with it, and yes there is still a portion of the fan base suffering from group butt hurt over the whole Griffin thing. But seriously, this is the only fan base i have ever seen ready to lynch the QB after two bad games when the defense did in fact play worse. This is the only fan base I STILL see fractured over how the last QB was treated vs how the current QB was treated. And sadly race also does play a factor in it this time as well. I mean people are actually calling the coach out with lines like, Gruden wasnt this supportive of Griffin after a bad game. So yea, the butt hurt does linger. At the end of the day, the real reasons are PTSD, a want/need for instant gratification... and a fair degree of good old fashioned butt hurt.

People seem to think I am saying some are being too hard on Kirk.. far from it. But I think there are some unrealistic expectations when they say well he wanted to be paid like a franchise QB. He wanted to be paid like a starter, not a well paid backup. The man cant have one bad game, much less two at this point. And I still ask, what realistic person says well the defense is giving up 32 points a game, but the main reason we lost is because the QB couldnt score 50. Any place outside of DC, fans would be outside Joe Barrys house with pitch forks.

First of all who cares about the RG3 folks - like I said before they are conditional Redskins fans & I could give a shit about them. I have always maintained that I root for the current Redskins QB regardless & that will never change. I truly believe that is true of the overwhelming majority of Redskins fans. Stop worrying so much about the minority of fans who believe otherwise. Really - who cares!

Secondly in terms of overwhelming gratification & jumping on a QB for poor performance - you are pretty much talking about the overwhelming majority of fans of any NFL team. The exception is teams that have had continued success with one QB for a long time (Pats, Steelers, Packers, etc). Neither the Redskins nor Cousins have anywhere near this type of resume so expect this to continue until this settles down - which again could happen even this season. An 8-9 game successful stretch doesn't guarantee a QB the support of the fans - just hope for the future.

I find it interesting that you appear to be asking for patience from the fans. However - you don't seem to express that type of patience towards other areas of the team such as the running game, defense and the general manager. I suggest that if you want people to act in this manner that you practice the same philosophy towards the entire team.

I am certainly not one who expects instant gratification. I stated before the season started that I don't expect much this season - I am only looking for this team to build & head in the rt direction. It obviously doesn't appear to be heading in that direction thus far, but the season is young. I am prepared to see this team head in the rt direction with or without Kirk Cousins. I don't really care - I just want an effective QB on this team - don't care whether he is white, black, green, mobile, franchise QB, whatever - just that he eventually helps them win.

HTTR

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I know right? The posts indicating that Redskins fans are somehow unique in our criticism of poor QB play is way off base. Happens in every city in the league.

 

[Sharkinva]

I know right? The posts indicating that Redskins fans are somehow unique in our criticism of poor QB play is way off base. Happens in every city in the league.

I have not said being critical of the QB is some how different than other fan bases. But seriously, what other fan bases have you seen ready to crucify the QB as the primary problem when they have had the issues we have had?? For forks sake, Romo got more love after a five INT game. And again show me another situation where a coach is being called out, not for his poor game plan or the team losing... but for how he handles the current QB and how it was different from what he did with the last QB?? IM fine with being critical of Kirk.. but seriously the idea that we lost.. not because the defense played poorly, or because the game plan was predictable. Yes Kirk missed some opportunities, alot of them in fact. We are 0-2 not just because the QB played poorly, the TEAM failed, the coaching failed.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I have not said being critical of the QB is some how different than other fan bases. But seriously, what other fan bases have you seen ready to crucify the QB as the primary problem when they have had the issues we have had?? For forks sake, Romo got more love after a five INT game. And again show me another situation where a coach is being called out, not for his poor game plan or the team losing... but for how he handles the current QB and how it was different from what he did with the last QB?? IM fine with being critical of Kirk.. but seriously the idea that we lost.. not because the defense played poorly, or because the game plan was predictable. Yes Kirk missed some opportunities, alot of them in fact. We are 0-2 not just because the QB played poorly, the TEAM failed, the coaching failed.

Agree. To summarize - against the Cowboys - Gruden sucked, defense sucked, Cousins sucked & other parts of the team could have done better. Time for at least some of these folks to step it up against the Giants.

 

[Sharkinva]

Interesting historical fact.. .granted it also mentions Shanahan ... but the logic is still sound mind you

Mike Shanahan says the Redskins need to give Kirk Cousins a running game

Indeed, a quick search of Pro Football Reference indicates that no team in a quarter-century has won consecutive games with fewer than 18 rushing attempts. And while Shanahan went through specific things that need to change for Washington to succeed, one of his main observations was that Cousins needs balance.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Interesting historical fact.. .granted it also mentions Shanahan ... but the logic is still sound mind you

Mike Shanahan says the Redskins need to give Kirk Cousins a running game

Indeed, a quick search of Pro Football Reference indicates that no team in a quarter-century has won consecutive games with fewer than 18 rushing attempts. And while Shanahan went through specific things that need to change for Washington to succeed, one of his main observations was that Cousins needs balance.

Great - forward this to Gruden - he is the one responsible for limiting the running plays - not Matt Jones.

 

[Sharkinva]

Great - forward this to Gruden - he is the one responsible for limiting the running plays - not Matt Jones.

Dude, I think you mistake my thinking on Jones. When we took him I thought it was a good pickup... as a change of pace back.

With his injury history, the way he carries the ball, and a tendency to fumble... I just dont think he is a feature back.

I agree he isnt the reason our run production has sucked. And i do think this team made a miscalculation in not resigning Morris, or at minimum bringing in another back in light of both Jones and Thompson's injury histories.

 

[skinsdad62]

But Dad you have been preaching not to judge Kirk on only 2 games, now you are doing the same thing with Wilson. How about we do the only fair thing and evaluate the QB's career and not make judgements over only 2 games?

One has a ring, a bad play call away from another when he lead his team down the field in the final minute (again) in a big game, holds the record for 4th quarter comebacks and has a 4th quarter passer rating of 114.8, tops in the NFL. His nine to one touchdown to interception ratio in the fourth also ranked first. And of course that does not even factor in all the plays he makes on broken plays by escaping pressure and running for a first down. He's done that a ton of times.

And then there's Kirk who has had one half of a good season in 5 years and never finds a way at the end to beat good teams. He never makes something happen on a broken play, his pocket presence is marginal at best.

i havent mentioned wilson at all

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Dude, I think you mistake my thinking on Jones. When we took him I thought it was a good pickup... as a change of pace back.

With his injury history, the way he carries the ball, and a tendency to fumble... I just dont think he is a feature back.

I agree he isnt the reason our run production has sucked. And i do think this team made a miscalculation in not resigning Morris, or at minimum bringing in another back in light of both Jones and Thompson's injury histories.

Water under the bridge. At this pt in time you have to go with what you have & honestly Jones didn't too badly last week - not sure why you & others were so critical of his performance. Also - he has not fumbled this season so let's put a hold on that until it occurs (you seem to have forgotten that Morris fumbled a fair amt early on & then got rid of the habit - RBs can do that).

Let's cheer him on for now since he is that best that they have. He is not near as bad as you are portraying him. If he shows that he truly sucks then I am with you 100%.

 

[Sportster 72]

Huh? I responded to one post that was basically one sentence & again I am guessing that you were being sarcastic. Am I supposed to scan the entire thread or board before responding? Oh well - doesn't matter all is good & people need to chill & just focus on this week's game. I really, really hope that Kirk has a great game (& that others on the Skins have a good game) for his benefit & to put this in balance. HTTR.

Just having fun SoCal. Teasing as it were.

I did post again later explaining that I was stirring the pot. Not sure you want to use SB winning QB as an end all be all. Puts him in the same shoes as Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams and Brad Johnson. Of course there were a few other SB QBs that were pretty damned good. All won a SB but aren't considered great. We'll see in another 5 or 6 years.

 

[Sportster 72]

Cali, you posted an article and I read it this morning but didn't have time to answer. It was film breakdown about the Redskins D and you asked my opinion. I prefer an aggressive D to a zone defense. I didn't have any problems with the sets he mentioned, 3-4; 4-2; or a 5 man front on early downs. Shark said it months ago, we do not have the horses.

Agree that Smith hasn't played the run well. Agree about not liking Reyes or Bruton. How do you start a career STer. Would much rather see Nacho or Su'a at SS.

Football at the NFL level where players are so good is tough if you don't disguise your intent .... unless you have some straight up studs. I don't think they are disguising much, Ben just picked them apart and I think a lot was decided after he saw the D line up.

Don't think I am a fan of Barry. Mostly I agreed with the article. We just do not have enough poop in our pants.

 

[Sharkinva]

Water under the bridge. At this pt in time you have to go with what you have & honestly Jones didn't too badly last week - not sure why you & others were so critical of his performance. Also - he has not fumbled this season so let's put a hold on that until it occurs (you seem to have forgotten that Morris fumbled a fair amt early on & then got rid of the habit - RBs can do that).

Let's cheer him on for now since he is that best that they have. He is not near as bad as you are portraying him. If he shows that he truly sucks then I am with you 100%.

Cant speak for any one else, but to me he had a bunch of average runs, and one big play. I realize thats the nature of the running game. But just as many will say... well the QB didnt have a good season, he had eight good games. To me Jones had a good run, and a bunch of ho hum.