Hartnell traded for Umberger and a 4th

[awaz]

How much do you think Matt Moulson would get in FA?

I think he'd be right around 4. Not a drastic raise because he really hasn't played above his salary since leaving NYI, but a little bit of a raise since free agency is dumb and the cap has gone up.

I would shoot for 2-3 years and 3.5-4.5 mil. I think putting him with Giroux and Voracek could net some big returns. He misses playing with Tavares.

 

[JBM73]

How much do you think Matt Moulson would get in FA?

That's the big question. I think what might keep it down is teams considering him to be a product of playing with Tavares. He wasn't as effective in Buffalo or Minn. I'd estimate $4.5 mil/yr. No way he gets less than 4, and if a team thinks they're getting the near point-per-game player he was on the Isles, he could get 5+.

 

[JBM73]

I think putting him with Giroux and Voracek could net some big returns. He misses playing with Tavares.

That's a good point. He might be willing to take a little less if he's told he's going to play with top tier talent on a contender.

 

[JBM73]

Let's hope Cobie is right about advanced stats, but they say that the Flyers will be worse next year because of this trade.

WOWY Analysis of Umberger for Hartnell trade - HockeyAnalysis.com

 

[banditshcky11]

Let's hope Cobie is right about advanced stats, but they say that the Flyers will be worse next year because of this trade.

WOWY Analysis of Umberger for Hartnell trade - HockeyAnalysis.com

I think as far as advanced stats go there will be data to suggest in some areas that they'll be worse and some that they'll be better. I do believe that advanced stats have a place in hockey but there aren't the end all be all as they can be deceiving when comparing 2 player who play completely different minutes and roles.

In the end I think we shed about 40 minor penalties a season to kill (maybe some f the Broad Street bully image too) and that will be a huge help while also acquiring a better skating defensively responsible forward. I don't expect RJ to put up the the same point total that Hartnell did but I also think that B Schenn, Couturier, Read & Raffl will all continue to increase their contributions and with another reliable PK'er in the mix will help take some of the strain off a few key players.

This is not an easy to judge trade because on the surface we lost on the point end. This isn't the first time this has happened to the Flyers though, it was the same with Richards and Carter but that worked out pretty well in the end I think (yes they won 2 cups but they're not expected to be THE GUY there like they were here). This is a time will tell trade that also hinges on the rest of the off season. So my suggestion is that since we all know a change was needed to win a cup why don't we sit back and let Hexy un-fuck our cap space and build us a winner.

 

[awaz]

I think as far as advanced stats go there will be data to suggest in some areas that they'll be worse and some that they'll be better. I do believe that advanced stats have a place in hockey but there aren't the end all be all as they can be deceiving when comparing 2 player who play completely different minutes and roles.

In the end I think we shed about 40 minor penalties a season to kill (maybe some f the Broad Street bully image too) and that will be a huge help while also acquiring a better skating defensively responsible forward. I don't expect RJ to put up the the same point total that Hartnell did but I also think that B Schenn, Couturier, Read & Raffl will all continue to increase their contributions and with another reliable PK'er in the mix will help take some of the strain off a few key players.

This is not an easy to judge trade because on the surface we lost on the point end. This isn't the first time this has happened to the Flyers though, it was the same with Richards and Carter but that worked out pretty well in the end I think (yes they won 2 cups but they're not expected to be THE GUY there like they were here). This is a time will tell trade that also hinges on the rest of the off season. So my suggestion is that since we all know a change was needed to win a cup why don't we sit back and let Hexy un-fuck our cap space and build us a winner.

with everything here.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I think one of the points alluded earlier was that by making that trade, they should be on the PK less - and that will give them more 5 on 5 time, something they struggled with - when you don't get much 5 on 5 time it is hard to be successful and gain confidence

 

[banditshcky11]

I think one of the points alluded earlier was that by making that trade, they should be on the PK less - and that will give them more 5 on 5 time, something they struggled with - when you don't get much 5 on 5 time it is hard to be successful and gain confidence

For anyone who's played hockey being down a man often will kill teams. If you're a PK guy then you run out of gas faster chasing guys, if you're not it takes way longer to get into a rhythm if you even can dependent on the amount of penalties.

Now I really like Hartnell, but he took very dumb and ill-timed penalties far too often. This move will help us keep 4 lines rolling for more of the game (which will drastically help Berube's system I feel) and should give our 2nd & 3rd lines more chances to exploit other teams with our offensive depth at 5 on 5.

 

[JBM73]

So my suggestion is that since we all know a change was needed to win a cup why don't we sit back and let Hexy un-fuck our cap space and build us a winner.

 

[Cobiemonster]

One day later and people are still wondering what led Flyers general manager Ron Hextall to trade popular forward Scott Hartnell to Columbus for R.J. Umberger.

According to Hextall, it wasn’t anything against Hartnell.

“I wasn’t shopping Scott Hartnell,” Hextall said, per CSN Philly. “When I was circling around with the other managers, I said, ‘We need some cap relief here. If you can think of anything, let me know.’ Columbus ended up coming hard after Scott.

“It didn’t give us a lot of cap relief, ironically. But it was a deal that I thought about for a few days before I went to Scotty’s agent because I realized he had a no-movement clause. It was a sensitive issue.”

Indeed it was. Hartnell admitted he was “pretty shocked at first” to hear that the Flyers wanted him to waive his no-movement clause. However, “At the end of the day, I decided that Columbus is an up-and-coming team. They have young, great players. It was the right decision for me to go to a team that was very excited to have me.”

Hextall, meanwhile, wants the Flyers to get faster. And for all the goals Hartnell scored in Philadelphia, the big winger never brought much speed to the table.

Said Hextall of his conversation with Hartnell: “The one question he asked me was, ‘When did I fall out of favor?’ I said, ‘No Hartsy, you haven’t fallen out of favor. This is just something that fits for us and we want to move forward with it.’”

Hextall says he ?wasn?t shopping Scott Hartnell? | ProHockeyTalk

 

[JBM73]

Some good news on why Umberger played so poorly last year, from Bill Meltzer:

"...R.J. Umberger played through a separated shoulder, herniated disc and broken finger this past season in Columbus. The Flyers said that Umberger has been given a clean bill of health and they are comfortable that he will be fine physically heading into next season."

 

[Cobiemonster]

Some good news on why Umberger played so poorly last year, from Bill Meltzer:

"...R.J. Umberger played through a separated shoulder, herniated disc and broken finger this past season in Columbus. The Flyers said that Umberger has been given a clean bill of health and they are comfortable that he will be fine physically heading into next season."

Sounds good to me, if he's healthy he should be better

 

[JBM73]

Sounds good to me, if he's healthy he should be better

Yep, helps to breathe a little positive life into a trade that seemed like such a head-scratcher.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

I don't think that it's a head scratcher at all. Harts couldn't keep up on the first line and he's not a 3/4 line guy so how long could he hold his own on the 2nd line? 5 years? No way. Whereas RJ will be a solid 3rd liner and utility player for the whole 3 years and then he's off the books. Love Harts but it's just the facts I'll eat crow if I'm wrong on this.

 

[JBM73]

I don't think that it's a head scratcher at all. Harts couldn't keep up on the first line and he's not a 3/4 line guy so how long could he hold his own on the 2nd line? 5 years? No way. Whereas RJ will be a solid 3rd liner and utility player for the whole 3 years and then he's off the books. Love Harts but it's just the facts I'll eat crow if I'm wrong on this.

We'll see. The Flyers have to find a 1st line LW first. And, Hartnell played very well on the 1st line last year with the exception of the Rags series. But, if we traded everyone who played poorly in that series...

 

[FlyerFinFan]

Harts was slowing down well before the rags series he simply couldn't keep up to G and Jake. Yes he was getting points but you or me would as well by just being out there with those guys haha! He simply was losing sync and playing him with Schenn and Simmonds made more sense. Don't get me wrong he wasn't horrible but it's not going to get better in the future years of his contract whereas RJ should be able to perform his role at a high level for the duration of his contract. The Kings system is about diagnosing a role for each position/line and plugging in the best player for it. This is what Hextall seems to be doing here. Harts simply isn't going to be a high end top line Winger for much longer some would say even today...it's just the harsh reality.

The trick now is to replace him with someone who is. I think Simmonds, Read or possibly Laughton could fit the bill....although I wouldn't mind seeing Moulson signed if they can move Vinny. too bad he couldn't adjust to wing.

 

[awaz]

He always thrashed the pens during his first go around in Philly. Hopefully that continues

 

[Maverick426h]

It's a shame that his goal wasn't the game winner tonight. By all accounts, it should've been. Either way, really nice to see Read, Umberger and Bellemare all get their first goals of the season. I feel like this could be the win that propels us to bigger and better things for the remainder of the season.

 

[Retroram52]

Perhaps this is how we do things under Holmgren, Hextall, and Berube and the rebuild mode. We are changing the roster in a slower fashion building a new core over time and we seem to start the year slowly and then build momentum. This year has been quicker than last year as there are new, younger, faces. We are ontaining success in many facets of the game at a faster rate than last year and except for occasional defensive lapses and not moving our feet, we are getting better on both ends of the ice. This is encouraging as many have stated that it will take a few years to really get to where we need to be from top to bottom.

 

[lasgop8]

Perhaps this is how we do things under Holmgren, Hextall, and Berube and the rebuild mode. We are changing the roster in a slower fashion building a new core over time and we seem to start the year slowly and then build momentum. This year has been quicker than last year as there are new, younger, faces. We are ontaining success in many facets of the game at a faster rate than last year and except for occasional defensive lapses and not moving our feet, we are getting better on both ends of the ice. This is encouraging as many have stated that it will take a few years to really get to where we need to be from top to bottom.

As the game was going on I was thinking man Umberger sucks and why did we trade Hatsy for him and by the end of the game I was thinking i'm glad we traded Hartsy for Umberger