Hartnell traded for Umberger and a 4th

[banditshcky11]

I think we should be happy just to dump Vinny without retaining salary. Phaneuf makes a ton and has his problems, but he is still a good defenseman. I'm sure it'd take Schenn or Couturier

I don't know why people keep thinking TOR will get top of the market price for a guy who everyone in the league knows they don't want because of his contract. Everyone knows the cap hit is HUGE and he isn't a legit #1. It just boggles my mind that anyone in TOR would still think that they'll get a young guy with a really high ceiling in return for a good player with a really bad contract. Might some really bad team give them a good young player for him? Yes of course, but unless the Flyers know something big (like Laughton is fully ready to come into the lineup, eat 2nd line minutes and put up 40-50 points as a rookie) then I can't see it being us.

 

[banditshcky11]

Maybe it's time for the Bobby Ryan rumors to start up again? I'm still hoping to see him in orange and black soon.

We can sign him after this season when he's a UFA without giving up assets.

I could now see a very legitimate interest in Matt Moulson though.

 

[mall3013]

HockeyBuzz.com - Bill Meltzer - Meltzer's Musings: Hartnell Traded, Jump in the Fire

 

[awaz]

I don't know why people keep thinking TOR will get top of the market price for a guy who everyone in the league knows they don't want because of his contract. Everyone knows the cap hit is HUGE and he isn't a legit #1. It just boggles my mind that anyone in TOR would still think that they'll get a young guy with a really high ceiling in return for a good player with a really bad contract. Might some really bad team give them a good young player for him? Yes of course, but unless the Flyers know something big (like Laughton is fully ready to come into the lineup, eat 2nd line minutes and put up 40-50 points as a rookie) then I can't see it being us.

Phaneuf is a legit #1 guy though. He's not elite caliber like Doughty or Keith, but he's a legit #1. His contract is a little high and too long, but it's not completely ridiculous considering he is a legit #1. Such is the reality in today's NHL. Legit #1 defenders get massive contracts and take a kings ransom in a trade.

 

[lasgop8]

This is crazy. Not one rumor about this trade and I cant believe Harts waived his NTC.

 

[awaz]

I just don't see this as a setup for another move. It basically clears 0 cap space which is usually what you see in a 'setup move'.

 

[JBM73]

I don't know how I feel about this trade yet. Essentially the Flyers traded a player who will be in significant decline for the last 3 years of his contract, 2016-2019, for a player who is in decline for the last 3 years of his contract NOW, 2014-2017. Anyone who followed the Blue Jackets even a little bit should know how much Umberger's game declined the last 2 years. Oh, and a 4th round pick. Yay. Umberger is no longer a top 6 player. I expect to see him on the 3rd line if no further significant moves are made.

 

[mall3013]

This is crazy. Not one rumor about this trade and I cant believe Harts waived his NTC.

I know. Never saw this one coming.. Crazy day!! I think there is more to come.

 

[awaz]

I don't know how I feel about this trade yet. Essentially the Flyers traded a player who will be in significant decline for the last 3 years of his contract, 2016-2019, for a player who is in decline for the last 3 years of his contract NOW, 2014-2017. Anyone who followed the Blue Jackets even a little bit should know how much Umberger's game declined last year. Oh, and a 4th round pick. Yay. Umberger is no longer a top 6 player. I expect to see him on the 3rd line if no further significant moves are made.

I agree w/ this. I think it's 100% the years on Hartnell's contract and maybe the NMC that they were trying to get rid of. Umberger just happened to be what the flyers could get for that.

the hole on the left side just got even bigger though.

 

[JBM73]

HockeyBuzz.com - Todd Cordell - Columbus Blue Jackets: Buying Out Umberger the Last Resort

 

[JBM73]

I agree w/ this. I think it's 100% the years on Hartnell's contract and maybe the NMC that they were trying to get rid of. Umberger just happened to be what the flyers could get for that.

the hole on the left side just got even bigger though.

Very true..and no cap space was freed up to fill that hole. Definitely a move for the long term, not short term.

 

[lasgop8]

I know. Never saw this one coming.. Crazy day!! I think there is more to come.

Please let there be more. If we keep umberger I think he's capable of putting up 20 goals and I think without Gee Hartsy will put up about 20. So if we are optimistic we gained a couple of years on the contracts and a 4th round pick.

 

[lasgop8]

I bet Tox is a happy man today!

 

[JBM73]

Please let there be more.

I hope this isn't setting up a trade of Couturier+ for a top d-man (Ekblad?). I can see Umberger sliding into the 3C role...

 

[banditshcky11]

Phaneuf is a legit #1 guy though. He's not elite caliber like Doughty or Keith, but he's a legit #1. His contract is a little high and too long, but it's not completely ridiculous considering he is a legit #1. Such is the reality in today's NHL. Legit #1 defenders get massive contracts and take a kings ransom in a trade.

He isn't elite but there's maybe 5 elite level d-men in the game now (Weber, Doughty, Keith, Chara & Suter maybe Subban, I just threw up in my mouth a little) then there are the other #1's who aren't in the elite because they lack a complete game. I guess I can see how he's considered a true #1, I mean he's way better then guys like Hedman, Meyers & probably a good number of other top pair guys.

Either way though no matter what # d-man he is he would be an upgrade to out defense now & if we can move Vinny and Grossmann then we'd be in decent shape with Pronger's LTIR money.

Is this the ideal situation to be in? Of course not, ideally Nashville would have never signed that offer sheet and we'd have Weber now but we don't and it appears that the organization still wants to upgrade the defense which is extremely dificult to do now.

 

[banditshcky11]

I hope this isn't setting up a trade of Couturier+ for a top d-man (Ekblad?). I can see Umberger sliding into the 3C role...

RJ played a lot of W in the past few seasons. He also played all over the lin up so who knows where he's fitting in, if he's even staying in Philly.

 

[JBM73]

RJ played a lot of W in the past few seasons. He also played all over the lin up so who knows where he's fitting in, if he's even staying in Philly.

Agreed, but...putting the rumors together:

1) Vinny willing to go to Florida
2) Flyers interested in Florida's 1st overall pick (Ekblad)

Along with the acquisition of a player who is really a 3C despite the ability to move to wing, and you have:

Flyers trade Couturier, LeCavalier and their 1st round pick for Florida's 1st overall pick.

 

[awaz]

He isn't elite but there's maybe 5 elite level d-men in the game now (Weber, Doughty, Keith, Chara & Suter maybe Subban, I just threw up in my mouth a little) then there are the other #1's who aren't in the elite because they lack a complete game. I guess I can see how he's considered a true #1, I mean he's way better then guys like Hedman, Meyers & probably a good number of other top pair guys.

Either way though no matter what # d-man he is he would be an upgrade to out defense now & if we can move Vinny and Grossmann then we'd be in decent shape with Pronger's LTIR money.

Is this the ideal situation to be in? Of course not, ideally Nashville would have never signed that offer sheet and we'd have Weber now but we don't and it appears that the organization still wants to upgrade the defense which is extremely dificult to do now.

I'm actually ok with Nashville matching the offer sheet. Any trade or the compensation going the other way was too big IMO.

And I don't want to acquire Phanuef either, for the same reasons. His contract is a bear and the pieces required to get him would get any semblance of depth the flyers have, which is really their only strong suit right now.

Acquiring top pair dmen through trade or free agency is not a viable route to long term success. You HAVE to draft them and develop them. Defensively, the flyers should be waiting until ghost, morin, and hagg at least get a cup of tea in the NHL before doing anything. Period.

 

[lasgop8]

I hope this isn't setting up a trade of Couturier+ for a top d-man (Ekblad?). I can see Umberger sliding into the 3C role...

I don't think Hexi is looking to shake things up that much. I was thinking maybe Vinny and one of our Dmen for Phaneuf and a pick. I still am just hoping there's more because I liked Harts most of the time and don't want to see him go for just Umberger and a 4th.

 

[awaz]

reading around in other circles.. if you look at this trade as..

the flyers essentially don't think hartnell can be a 1W anymore and his skill set doesn't work on the bottom 6. if they have to pay 4.5+ for a bottom 6 guy, the guy might as well have the skill set to play on the bottom 6, which umberger does.

that in conjunction with Umberger not having a NTC and a 2 year shorter contract makes this a good deal for the flyers.

that is, if you don't think hartnell can be a 1W anymore...