Hargreaves III or Ramsey?

[UK Cowboy]

If it were up to me, I would target QB and RB in round 3 and 4. I would pray like hell Dak Prescott fell to round 3, and if not him there are other alternatives - I happen to like Brissett from NC State as a mid-late round option. Dallas can grab a productive RB in round 4 and beyond - many teams have demonstrated this over the past several years. Beyond that I'm looking for BPA. This is just my thinking, ultimately I trust McClay to make the right decisions.

I'm happy to let Darren McFadden go into next year as the starter at RB, so I don't feel the need to spend a high pick on RB.

AT TE, I'm really hoping Dallas moves on from Escobar and looks at Dwayne Allen in free agency. Allen would really upgrade the athleticism at that position. I don't think he would be too costly.

I think if the Cowboys want Dak, they'd better pull the trigger in round 2. Too me, paying Goff $6 million a year to sit behind Romo(when healthy) for 3 years isn't a great player. Dak is a guy that needs that time to develop, and might be a solid starter when Romo hangs them up

 

[jarntt]

Jack at 4 is too high imo

What is it you don't like? I think he could be a star. Injury?

 

[Eastbay]

Jack at 4 is too high imo

"Jack" of all trades......

Coaches believe UCLA's Jack could play up to 5 positions
(via theScore App: The Ultimate, Personalized Mobile Sports Experience )

 

[snookdad]

"Jack" of all trades......

Coaches believe UCLA's Jack could play up to 5 positions
(via theScore App: The Ultimate, Personalized Mobile Sports Experience )

Jack is growing on me. I don't like the nature of his injury.

I also don't like that(excuse the pawn) he's a Jack of all trades either. Usually that means the guy is proficient at many thing, but not particularly great at any thing. Hope that's not the case. I think I'm okay with the pick he's being compared to the young stud LB in Tampa. That would be a major hit if he's healthy.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Jack is growing on me. I don't like the nature of his injury.

I also don't like that(excuse the pawn) he's a Jack of all trades either. Usually that means the guy is proficient at many thing, but not particularly great at any thing. Hope that's not the case. I think I'm okay with the pick he's being compared to the young stud LB in Tampa. That would be a major hit if he's healthy.

I've got to admit that I am warming to Jack as well. Putting him beside Lee...

 

[Offsides Rudy]

My problem with Haargreaves is that he did not play well or show up enough against top WR or passing teams. Excuses are being made that he got bored or was trying to not get hurt. What does that say about what kind of player or person he is? No thanks, not in the top 5 for me.
Bosa scares me as a top 5 pick as well. From the games that I watched, I don't think his pass rush warrants top 5 pick (10+ sacks). He only lined up on the left side, first step was average and struggled against double teams. I think his best attribute is playing the run but needs to improve his technique and play within the scheme. He's very good but IMO I don't think you will ever get top 5 pick production from him and would be another Bobby Carpenter story.

Give me Ramsey or trade back

 

[fordman84]

My problem with Haargreaves is that he did not play well or show up enough against top WR or passing teams. Excuses are being made that he got bored or was trying to not get hurt. What does that say about what kind of player or person he is? No thanks, not in the top 5 for me.
Bosa scares me as a top 5 pick as well. From the games that I watched, I don't think his pass rush warrants top 5 pick (10+ sacks). He only lined up on the left side, first step was average and struggled against double teams. I think his best attribute is playing the run but needs to improve his technique and play within the scheme. He's very good but IMO I don't think you will ever get top 5 pick production from him and would be another Bobby Carpenter story.

Give me Ramsey or trade back

And how many games exactly of Bosa did you watch? Enough to be considered maybe an tOSU fan?

 

[Offsides Rudy]

And how many games exactly of Bosa did you watch? Enough to be considered maybe an tOSU fan?

Every game that was on TV this year and most last year...I never saw an elite get off or win with speed against only RT's... I project him at best as a 6-8 sack season run stopping DE. IMO that's not a top five pick for a team that needs impact players

 

[es4m11]

My problem with Haargreaves is that he did not play well or show up enough against top WR or passing teams. Excuses are being made that he got bored or was trying to not get hurt. What does that say about what kind of player or person he is? No thanks, not in the top 5 for me.
Bosa scares me as a top 5 pick as well. From the games that I watched, I don't think his pass rush warrants top 5 pick (10+ sacks). He only lined up on the left side, first step was average and struggled against double teams. I think his best attribute is playing the run but needs to improve his technique and play within the scheme. He's very good but IMO I don't think you will ever get top 5 pick production from him and would be another Bobby Carpenter story.

Give me Ramsey or trade back

Did you watch Hargreaves cover Amari Cooper in 2014? Or did you watch Hargreaves at all that season? Hargreaves was dominant. Against Cooper, Hargreaves gave up like 3 underneath passes for not much gain, and one pass down the sideline for 25-30 yards on a perfectly placed ball by the 'Bama QB. All in all I think it was 4 catches for about 60 yards. Other than that Hargreaves was all over him when assigned to him. Last I checked Cooper made more than a few NFL CB's look pretty bad in his rookie campaign.

Hargreaves had a somewhat down year in 2015, but he was not injured and his technique didn't disappear. Many people speculate he coasted down the stretch in 2015 to avoid injury for the NFL, and that kind of matches up with what people are saying about him not competing on jump balls down the field and some of the more risky 50/50 plays. I'm not making excuses for the guy, but if that is the case I get it. He stood to make many millions of dollars if healthy.

I'll say it again, I'll take Ramsey at #4, but I don't view Hargreaves as much of a downgrade. Hargreaves will be the best corner in this draft.

 

[Offsides Rudy]

Did you watch Hargreaves cover Amari Cooper in 2014? Or did you watch Hargreaves at all that season? Hargreaves was dominant. Against Cooper, Hargreaves gave up like 3 underneath passes for not much gain, and one pass down the sideline for 25-30 yards on a perfectly placed ball by the 'Bama QB. All in all I think it was 4 catches for about 60 yards. Other than that Hargreaves was all over him when assigned to him. Last I checked Cooper made more than a few NFL CB's look pretty bad in his rookie campaign.

Hargreaves had a somewhat down year in 2015, but he was not injured and his technique didn't disappear. Many people speculate he coasted down the stretch in 2015 to avoid injury for the NFL, and that kind of matches up with what people are saying about him not competing on jump balls down the field and some of the more risky 50/50 plays. I'm not making excuses for the guy, but if that is the case I get it. He stood to make many millions of dollars if healthy.

I'll say it again, I'll take Ramsey at #4, but I don't view Hargreaves as much of a downgrade. Hargreaves will be the best corner in this draft.

Is that the same game in 2014 that Cooper went for 10 catches 200yds and 3 tds? I only focused in on him this year against Ole Miss and the bowl game and he struggled greatly against Treadwell. Was it him holding back or was it his size? If holding back, playing not to get hurt and coasting are in his DNA then I don't think it's worth a top 5 pick. I'm fine with trading back and landing him with an extra pick

 

[jarntt]

Did you watch Hargreaves cover Amari Cooper in 2014? Or did you watch Hargreaves at all that season? Hargreaves was dominant. Against Cooper, Hargreaves gave up like 3 underneath passes for not much gain, and one pass down the sideline for 25-30 yards on a perfectly placed ball by the 'Bama QB. All in all I think it was 4 catches for about 60 yards. Other than that Hargreaves was all over him when assigned to him. Last I checked Cooper made more than a few NFL CB's look pretty bad in his rookie campaign..

Is that the same game in 2014 that Cooper went for 10 catches 200yds and 3 tds? I only focused in on him this year against Ole Miss and the bowl game and he struggled greatly against Treadwell. Was it him holding back or was it his size? If holding back, playing not to get hurt and coasting are in his DNA then I don't think it's worth a top 5 pick. I'm fine with trading back and landing him with an extra pick

This is a little tough to follow. So it's the same game and those were his yards while Hargreaves was covering him? How much of the game was he covering him? 4-60 in a partial college game is pretty darn good for a WR even if he did much better against the other corners. I don;'t think you can really look at it unless he covered him the entire game. otherwise the sample size is just too small and really even in one game it doesn't mean too much...

 

[jarntt]

Other than the two TDs called back (which makes it a huge game for Cooper) this seems to show what they did head to head?

When the two were matched up in clear one-on-one situations, Cooper had five catches for 51 yards and one of his three touchdowns. His last score came with Florida's top cornerback on the sideline.

This says both played well for what it's worth. I don't remember the game so I have no personal comment:
Looking back, both played well. Cooper is obviously on another level and showed why he's the better of the two, but Hargreaves didn't have a bad game despite what the stats might indicate.

Tale of the tape: Cooper vs. Hargreaves

 

[Offsides Rudy]

This is a little tough to follow. So it's the same game and those were his yards while Hargreaves was covering him? How much of the game was he covering him? 4-60 in a partial college game is pretty darn good for a WR even if he did much better against the other corners. I don;'t think you can really look at it unless he covered him the entire game. otherwise the sample size is just too small and really even in one game it doesn't mean too much...

Sure it would take play by play breakdown to know how many snaps were zone or man or if Hargreaves was covering Cooper. Bama had 29 comps and 449 in the air. I'm going to lean towards Florida had their best cover man on Bama's only WR threat more often than not. You want sample size? For him being worthy of a top 5 pick show me a dominant performance against against a top 10 WR prospect or top 40 passing O. I haven't found it.

To me he's more of the shape of 1st rd 10-20 pick and the draft hype along with position of need is trying to fit him into a top 5.

 

[es4m11]

Is that the same game in 2014 that Cooper went for 10 catches 200yds and 3 tds? I only focused in on him this year against Ole Miss and the bowl game and he struggled greatly against Treadwell. Was it him holding back or was it his size? If holding back, playing not to get hurt and coasting are in his DNA then I don't think it's worth a top 5 pick. I'm fine with trading back and landing him with an extra pick

If you watched that 2014 FLA-BAMA game, most of Cooper's damage came from the slot. Not while lined up outside against Hargreaves. The game tape is out there to watch. The bowl game against Treadwell was his last collegiate game, still jives with the theory of his taking his foot off the gas down the stretch. Again, I'm not making excuses for the kid - he was bad (for his standards) down the stretch in 2015.

 

[es4m11]

This is a little tough to follow. So it's the same game and those were his yards while Hargreaves was covering him? How much of the game was he covering him? 4-60 in a partial college game is pretty darn good for a WR even if he did much better against the other corners. I don;'t think you can really look at it unless he covered him the entire game. otherwise the sample size is just too small and really even in one game it doesn't mean too much...

Yea, same game. Most of Cooper's damage came when he was lined up in the slot. the one "big" play Cooper had against Hargreaves was down the side line, in which Hargreaves had nearly perfect coverage, but the Bama QB dropped it in perfectly over Cooper's outside shoulder for about 30 yards. Literally nothing Hargreaves could do on that play. Other than that there were like 3 little underneath routes that Cooper caught against Hargreaves for maybe a grand total of 25 yards.

Yea, it's just one game, but people want to point to his one game against Treadwell and say he he doesn't live up to the hype. When in reality he has a whole lot more tape saying he is elite than not.

 

[Clayton]

Imo Ramsey has too much overlap with Byron Jones for the Cowboys to draft him. I could be wrong but I think someone else will be in play.

 

[Offsides Rudy]

Yea, same game. Most of Cooper's damage came when he was lined up in the slot. the one "big" play Cooper had against Hargreaves was down the side line, in which Hargreaves had nearly perfect coverage, but the Bama QB dropped it in perfectly over Cooper's outside shoulder for about 30 yards. Literally nothing Hargreaves could do on that play. Other than that there were like 3 little underneath routes that Cooper caught against Hargreaves for maybe a grand total of 25 yards.

Yea, it's just one game, but people want to point to his one game against Treadwell and say he he doesn't live up to the hype. When in reality he has a whole lot more tape saying he is elite than not.

I remember the entire Florida secondary getting worked that day and also read the article on the other thread that clearly stated that Cooper ate his lunch but SOME of the damage came from the slot..... Again show me one dominant performance agains a top ten WR spot or top 40 passing offense to warrant a top 5 pick? Now throw in that he holds back or doesn't like to compete...... No thanks I'll pass at #4.... To be honest as long the knee injury checks out I like the CB Smith from LSU later in the draft

 

[PDay8810]

Imo Ramsey has too much overlap with Byron Jones for the Cowboys to draft him. I could be wrong but I think someone else will be in play.

You may be right about someone else in play at 4 but Ramsey is the smart pick regardless. Now I'm thinking the #4 pick might be a hot commodity for teams like Houston, and perhaps the Rams. As much as I love Ramsey at 4, I'd consider moving out if jerry is going on the recommendation of others in the room

 

[Offsides Rudy]

Imo Ramsey has too much overlap with Byron Jones for the Cowboys to draft him. I could be wrong but I think someone else will be in play.

How is too much overlap to Jones be a bad thing? I think the overlap (3 position starter) makes him #1 on the Cowboys BPA.
The days of having a true free safety and true strong safety are over in today's passing NFL. If you can't get a double digit sack pass rusher then the next best thing is 2 safeties versatile enough to play all the positions that offenses force them to play.

 

[Offsides Rudy]

You may be right about someone else in play at 4 but Ramsey is the smart pick regardless. Now I'm thinking the #4 pick might be a hot commodity for teams like Houston, and perhaps the Rams. As much as I love Ramsey at 4, I'd consider moving out if jerry is going on the recommendation of others in the room

I'm all for trading back but it has to be for a extra 2nd rd pick... IMO No dice for a extra 3rd