Series Thread: Hanging on by a prayer, Rangers host Padres

[RevSader]

It wouldn't have helped us now to have traded for half of a season of Greinke in 2012 though. Was it straight up Olt for Greinke or were other players involved?

The Rangers And The Zack Greinke Deal - MLB Trade Rumors

Olt was the tipping point. They offered Grimm, Garcia, Bell. Olt was apparently one prospect too many. Ultimately it wouldn't have mattered, but that's easier to say today than it was 3 years ago.

And like you said for a half season what would it have helped? Maybe they win the division outright, but still lose him in FA, because they can't afford to beat the Dodgers offer.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Considering the Angels sent Segura and two pitchers, I highly doubt it. I thought it was a Profar and Olt combo, but I've slept a bunch since then.

That is why at least to me if a true ACE (TORP) is out there I do not have a problem with losing some prospects. There were many very high on OLT and he just has not gotten it together. I am not talking about a Garza or Lohse or someone like that. But someone who has truly proven themselves to take the #1 slot in your rotation. They have a track record, the prospect does not.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

The Rangers And The Zack Greinke Deal - MLB Trade Rumors

Olt was the tipping point. They offered Grimm, Garcia, Bell. Olt was apparently one prospect too many. Ultimately it wouldn't have mattered, but that's easier to say today than it was 3 years ago.

And like you said for a half season what would it have helped? Maybe they win the division outright, but still lose him in FA, because they can't afford to beat the Dodgers offer.

Wow, what a steal that would have been.

 

[RevSader]

That is why at least to me if a true ACE (TORP) is out there I do not have a problem with losing some prospects. There were many very high on OLT and he just has not gotten it together. I am not talking about a Garza or Lohse or someone like that. But someone who has truly proven themselves to take the #1 slot in your rotation. They have a track record, the prospect does not.

As long as what you get is worth it in the potential of what you gave up I do not mind.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Not sure if I heard this right earlier in the year but is Greinke able to opt out of his contract after this year?

 

[RevSader]

Wow, what a steal that would have been.

Easy to say that now. At the time it seemed a little steep for a rental. I don't remember him being phenomenal with the Angels, who still missed the playoffs.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

As long as what you get is worth it in the potential of what you gave up I do not mind.

Correct. And that is why to me it has to be someone that has that track record and most likely will not crash and burn on you. There are very few like that.

 

[donaldson79]

Looking at this a little more ... LAD won 4 of the 8 Greinke no decisions. So he kept the team in the game contributing then to 12 team wins. In one of those team wins he gave up 5 runs in 6IP against COL. So in the other seven no decisions including four the team lost ... he gave up a total of only 7ER. In the games LAD lost where he got the decision he gave up only 3ER.

If LAD starts putting runs up in the second half with Greinke on the mound ... LAD is likely to run away with the NLW ... extending their 5.5 game lead they already hold.

So you are correct ... Greinke is pitching better although the game results could easily be lots better and just slightly higher offensive output Greinke could easily be 18-0 at the break.

Wouldn't that be amazing to have a pitcher with an undefeated record at the break?

Good stats you've brought up here.

ALSO, Greg Hardy had his suspension reduced to 4 games.

 

[saddles]

That is why at least to me if a true ACE (TORP) is out there I do not have a problem with losing some prospects. There were many very high on OLT and he just has not gotten it together. I am not talking about a Garza or Lohse or someone like that. But someone who has truly proven themselves to take the #1 slot in your rotation. They have a track record, the prospect does not.

Greinke has definitely proven to be a TORP over the last 2 and a half years. Before he became a free agent his best year ERA-wise between 2009 and 2012 was 3.48 and that was with him pitching mostly in the NL. Didn't he also suffer from some type of mental disorder early on in his career? Social anxiety or something like that?

 

[saddles]

Easy to say that now. At the time it seemed a little steep for a rental. I don't remember him being phenomenal with the Angels, who still missed the playoffs.

3.53 ERA with the Angels.

 

[RevSader]

3.53 ERA with the Angels.

That's a respectable ERA for the park, but that doesn't tell the whole story. I need to check out his other numbers to get a feel for how that would translate to Texas.

Okay, after checking out his ERA+ and WHIP he was good, but not amazing. The Jet Stream still existed in 2012 and he allowed 11 homers in 13 starts for LAA. I bet that is a few higher in Texas.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Greinke has definitely proven to be a TORP over the last 2 and a half years. Before he became a free agent his best year ERA-wise between 2009 and 2012 was 3.48 and that was with him pitching mostly in the NL. Didn't he also suffer from some type of mental disorder early on in his career? Social anxiety or something like that?

He did and would combust on the mound at times. Like you stated and I was saying he is pitching better now than ever before.

 

[saddles]

He did and would combust on the mound at times. Like you stated and I was saying he is pitching better now than ever before.

I remember at the time he became a free agent that most everyone on the DMN board wanted the Rangers to go after him, but for the reasons I mentioned before I didn't want any part of signing him long term. I turned out to be very wrong, but given the same circumstances in the future I would feel the same way. Like you said he is pitching better now than ever before. He is one of the few who has been worth signing long term to a huge contract.

 

[Windingmywatch]

And that's why I don't put stock in record to determine worth of a pitcher. I still don't know how Scott Feldman won 17 games in 2009.

Scooter actually pitched pretty well in those 17 wins ... 2.14ERA/1.132WHIP ... with an 8-2 record through 18 starts in the first half of 2009... identical team results as Greinke has contributed in the first half of 2015.

TEX run support for Feldman over the entire season ... 26 games with 3 or more runs (including 9 games with 6+ runs scored). LAD in support of Greinke over half a season has scored more than 3 runs in only 7 games.

Feldman's overall 4.08 ERA was heavily earned in the games where he lost (8.85ERA) or did not get the decision (4.57ERA).

Scott Feldman 2009 Pitching Gamelogs | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[Windingmywatch]

Considering the Angels sent Segura and two pitchers, I highly doubt it. I thought it was a Profar and Olt combo, but I've slept a bunch since then.

Man ... would have been a great deal knowing what we know now.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

I remember at the time he became a free agent that most everyone on the DMN board wanted the Rangers to go after him, but for the reasons I mentioned before I didn't want any part of signing him long term. I turned out to be very wrong, but given the same circumstances in the future I would feel the same way. Like you said he is pitching better now than ever before. He is one of the few who has been worth signing long term to a huge contract.

I actually think there were quite a few of us who thought he was too much of a mental case at the time and he would break down in a big situation. I admit I forgot about that until you mentioned it earlier.

 

[jta4437]

That is why at least to me if a true ACE (TORP) is out there I do not have a problem with losing some prospects. There were many very high on OLT and he just has not gotten it together. I am not talking about a Garza or Lohse or someone like that. But someone who has truly proven themselves to take the #1 slot in your rotation. They have a track record, the prospect does not.

There should have been NO ONE that wouldn't have made that trade, Olt had a mile wide hole in his swing from the get go, he was an older and much lesser version of Gallo

I remember many people didn't like Greinke bc he was quirky, goofy and a bit of a head case bc of that mental breakdown he had many years ago and thought he might go off the reservation again

But then again I always wanted Greinke

 

[donaldson79]

There should have been NO ONE that wouldn't have made that trade, Olt had a mile wide hole in his swing from the get go, he was an older and much lesser version of Gallo

I remember many people didn't like Greinke bc he was quirky, goofy and a bit of a head case bc of that mental breakdown he had many years ago and thought he might go off the reservation again

But then again I always wanted Greinke

Well.....you were well ahead of the pack, at least.

I always liked the guy. But anytime $147 mil is mentioned, along with a semi-long contract, to a pitcher who has had some issues, I start at leery. Just my nature.

But to date, you were 100% correct in your evaluation of him.

And I was never the Olt fan which some were. NEVER

 

[saddles]

The Rangers are running the following promotion in honor of Prince being in the HR Derby.

For every home run that Prince Fielder hits during the 2015 Gillette Home Run Derby presented by Head & Shoulders on Monday, July 13, fans can take $1 off Lexus Club Box and Lower Box seats* for the August 17 and 19 games against the Mariners and the October 1 game against the Angels.

If Prince is crowned champion of the 2015 Gillette Home Run Derby, fans can take 50% off all tickets to the August 17, August 19, and October 1 games.

This offer will be available beginning at 12 p.m. (noon) on July 14 and will only be available for 84 hours as a nod to Prince’s number.

Tune in to see Prince swing for his third win at 7 p.m. CT on July 13 and be sure to check your inbox on Tuesday at 12 p.m. (noon) to see your final savings!

 

[Bmurph]

Not sure if I heard this right earlier in the year but is Greinke able to opt out of his contract after this year?

zack greinke dodgers contract

Yeah I believe its after the 3rd year