Grandal

[Jiddy]

This is why they play the games.

A few points:

1) The way Grandal sets up for catching aids his pitch framing, but increases his passed balls.

2) From what I understand about good baseball play - Grandal will have a beneficial effect on Sox defensive fielding and pitcher confidence. His head is in the game and he makes other people better.

3) I don't know where Renteria will bat Grandal, but he is an ideal 2 hole hitter with his OBP and decent power. Moncada needs to be lower in the batting order anyway.

Comments like this about ANY sports player just reinforce skepticism about what is to come from them rather than the opposite which they are intending. Why do we, as fans, actually perpetuate this kind of player/coachspeak bs? It's theoretical and unprovable at best-even in retrospect-much less for forward outlook.

 

[Mingo]

Comments like this about ANY sports player just reinforce skepticism about what is to come from them rather than the opposite which they are intending. Why do we, as fans, actually perpetuate this kind of player/coachspeak bs? It's theoretical and unprovable at best-even in retrospect-much less for forward outlook.

I realize tangible means provable - and intangible means no visible proof. I was a catcher -however - and I understand how a good knowledgeable catcher has an effect on this teammates in the field. For instance - if those in the field are aware of how the hitters are being pitched - they can more easily position themselves for balls hit into play. A catcher facing toward the fielders - with knowledge of the pitching plan for the batter - can be huge in getting position players into position for making plays on any hit ball. I haven't seen recent Sox teams play with this kind of knowledge and I'm excited about it.

Are you of the opinion that players don't have any effect on the players they are playing with? No player has the potential to make other players better than the catching position.

 

[Jiddy]

I realize tangible means provable - and intangible means no visible proof. I was a catcher -however - and I understand how a good knowledgeable catcher has an effect on this teammates in the field. For instance - if those in the field are aware of how the hitters are being pitched - they can more easily position themselves for balls hit into play. A catcher facing toward the fielders - with knowledge of the pitching plan for the batter - can be huge in getting position players into position for making plays on any hit ball. I haven't seen recent Sox teams play with this kind of knowledge and I'm excited about it.

Are you of the opinion that players don't have any effect on the players they are playing with? No player has the potential to make other players better than the catching position.

I've never played baseball at the MLB level..only as a kid. Considering that we pay multiple coaches for each team millions of dollars to get these players ready...and most (read: all) of them have played/coached at multiple levels. It makes the Yasmani Grandal vs any other established MLB catcher/coaching staff difference when all those great minds are coming together to help out...*drumroll*...seem like a huge reach.

So yeah...HUGE skepticism about stuff like this. There's all kinds of communication happening on a baseball field between coaches and players (and even management...hell even cheatin ass cheaters in the exploding scoreboard)...So how a team gels and communicates goes WAY beyond one single player...especially in a consideration of that single player vs a replacement...Seems likea "slap some lipstick on a pig" approach.

 

[Mingo]

I've never played baseball at the MLB level..only as a kid. Considering that we pay multiple coaches for each team millions of dollars to get these players ready...and most (read: all) of them have played/coached at multiple levels. It makes the Yasmani Grandal vs any other established MLB catcher/coaching staff difference when all those great minds are coming together to help out...*drumroll*...seem like a huge reach.

So yeah...HUGE skepticism about stuff like this. There's all kinds of communication happening on a baseball field between coaches and players (and even management...hell even cheatin ass cheaters in the exploding scoreboard)...So how a team gels and communicates goes WAY beyond one single player...especially in a consideration of that single player vs a replacement...Seems likea "slap some lipstick on a pig" approach.

I'll just say - during a game - the players in the field focus on the pitched ball and plays on the bases - the catcher is in the field of vision for all position players while the ball is in play, but the coaches in the dugout are not. It is old school that the catcher is the field general - it appears to me Grandal is old school.

In Hockey and Basketball stats are kept on players that correlates to minutes played and the plus or minus in scoring during those minutes. Baseball doesn't lend itself to that kind of scoring, but certain players always affect the culture or habits of the teammates.

 

[idseer]

I'll just say - during a game - the players in the field focus on the pitched ball and plays on the bases - the catcher is in the field of vision for all position players while the ball is in play, but the coaches in the dugout are not. It is old school that the catcher is the field general - it appears to me Grandal is old school.

In Hockey and Basketball stats are kept on players that correlates to minutes played and the plus or minus in scoring during those minutes. Baseball doesn't lend itself to that kind of scoring, but certain players always affect the culture or habits of the teammates.

i do understand what you're saying .... BUT .... this is the major leagues. aren't all catcher's taught these things? i mean, it doesn't sound like this is the kind of thing only a very few catchers share.
you say you were a catcher. what level did you reach and when did you learn a knowledgeable catcher has an effect on his teammates?

 

[Mingo]

i do understand what you're saying .... BUT .... this is the major leagues. aren't all catcher's taught these things? i mean, it doesn't sound like this is the kind of thing only a very few catchers share.
you say you were a catcher. what level did you reach and when did you learn a knowledgeable catcher has an effect on his teammates?

LOL - well I only caught through HS. It doesn't take much more than common sense to understand that in the spectrum of major league talent at Catcher some perform this function in the highest degree and other catchers are not very good at it. The difference between the good catcher is more than the application of talent - it is the application of leadership - strategy and cleverness - in uncommon quantities. Grandal by all accounts excels at this part of the job. I am making the point - that this performance by a catcher doesn't show up in the statistics, but leads to the better performance of other players.

Leadership is always an intangible. How bad George Washington was as a General on the battlefield - as measured by his won and lost record - was greatly overshadowed by his skills and success as a leader.

But hell - ID - I bend toward optimism about the White Sox despite the sometimes miserable emotions it puts me through - as a fan for 61 years - my optimistic takes on the Sox have a very poor won and lost record as well.

I come on bulletin boards to hear other points of view. You do not disappoint me in that regard.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

I think it's fair to say at this point that the Sox fans in here are locked into two separate camps, with no change of minds until we're well into the season and actually see tangible results. Luckily, the real camp is right around the corner, then some semi-meaningful ST games, then finally March 26, 2020. Can't wait for any of these.

 

[Mingo]

The White Sox have broken a lot of hearts. I don't know who it was that volunteered to go to hell in exchange for the Sox 2005 season, but I salute him.