Giants General Thoughts

[Mays-Fan]

And, I think, because his rights are controlled by another team, there is no way that the Giants could talk him into moving to a closer role before acquiring him. Making the trade, and finding out that he won't budge, seems foolish. Right now, he is, at best, a 5th starter. The Giants don't need a 5th starter.

It surprises me how much his production has dropped. It almost seems like he is just going through the motions and isn't very motivated to do well. However, I don't really know what is going on. Its too bad that so many of the guys from the starting rotations of the championship squads flamed out so quickly.

I believe you are correct. The Giants talking to Bum directly would likely be construed as tampering. But there has to be a back-channel way of trying. Get a hint to him that that's what we want, then have himself give an interview where he says he'd like to try to be a closer. The FO's could take it from there. I'll bet we could pick up his contract in a trade for a mid-level prospect or two.

As to his production drop, Bum always struck me as a guy who got up for the big games, and who kinda mailed it in for the lesser games. Being on the DBacks now has to be a total letdown for him, albeit one that pays him about $700k/start for 2023.

I think being a well-paid closer on a contender would very much hold his interest.

 

[tzill]

I believe you are correct. The Giants talking to Bum directly would likely be construed as tampering. But there has to be a back-channel way of trying. Get a hint to him that that's what we want, then have himself give an interview where he says he'd like to try to be a closer. The FO's could take it from there. I'll bet we could pick up his contract in a trade for a mid-level prospect or two.

As to his production drop, Bum always struck me as a guy who got up for the big games, and who kinda mailed it in for the lesser games. Being on the DBacks now has to be a total letdown for him, albeit one that pays him about $700k/start for 2023.

I think being a well-paid closer on a contender would very much hold his interest.

wouldn't necessarily be a back channel thing. FZ calls up the Dbacks, says we're interested in Bum and we'd like to talk to him and his agent.

Dbacks grant permission, we ask: would your client be amenable to being the closer?

pretty simple.

 

[tzill]

Remaining cap space (including arbitration estimates) among NL West teams:
1. Diamondbacks - $134M
2. Giants - $96M
3. Dodgers - $66M
4. Rockies - $55M
5. Padres - $3M

 

[calsnowskier]

And, I think, because his rights are controlled by another team, there is no way that the Giants could talk him into moving to a closer role before acquiring him. Making the trade, and finding out that he won't budge, seems foolish. Right now, he is, at best, a 5th starter. The Giants don't need a 5th starter.

It surprises me how much his production has dropped. It almost seems like he is just going through the motions and isn't very motivated to do well. However, I don't really know what is going on. Its too bad that so many of the guys from the starting rotations of the championship squads flamed out so quickly.

I have heard he isn’t happy in the back org. That probably plays into it.

 

[calsnowskier]

wouldn't necessarily be a back channel thing. FZ calls up the Dbacks, says we're interested in Bum and we'd like to talk to him and his agent.

Dbacks grant permission, we ask: would your client be amenable to being the closer?

pretty simple.

This

 

[LHG]

Remaining cap space (including arbitration estimates) among NL West teams:
1. Diamondbacks - $134M
2. Giants - $96M
3. Dodgers - $66M
4. Rockies - $55M
5. Padres - $3M

Weird to see the Dodgers with more space than the Rockies. Proof that spending isn't everything (but also some recognition that the Dodgers have more free agents. Still that shouldn't bring them that close together).
If the Dodgers played 2023 with their roster as is, they'd probably finish 2nd (maybe 3rd) in the NL West. The Rockies, as currently configured, would probably finish last.

 

[Mays-Fan]

wouldn't necessarily be a back channel thing. FZ calls up the Dbacks, says we're interested in Bum and we'd like to talk to him and his agent.

Dbacks grant permission, we ask: would your client be amenable to being the closer?

pretty simple.

But is that allowed in the CBA if Bum is still under contract with the DBacks? I honestly don't know, but I could see why MLB would want it that way.

One has to admit, the whole idea is quite intriguing. I hope Bum and the respective FO's see it that way as well.

 

[stanford the manford]

But is that allowed in the CBA if Bum is still under contract with the DBacks? I honestly don't know, but I could see why MLB would want it that way.

One has to admit, the whole idea is quite intriguing. I hope Bum and the respective FO's see it that way as well.

Hell, if the Giants want to really do this the offer is very simple

'Bum, you have a one year contract at $1, BUT you are our DH'

 

[Mays-Fan]

Hell, if the Giants want to really do this the offer is very simple

'Bum, you have a one year contract at $1, BUT you are our DH'

I'd hate to be the one to give him the bunt signal.

BUNT?!?! Bunting is for assholes!!!

 

[msgkings322]

Why is everyone here hellbent on changing our closer? Doval is arguably top 5 in the league and still quite cheap. Closer is not an area of need.

 

[calsnowskier]

Why is everyone here hellbent on changing our closer? Doval is arguably top 5 in the league and still quite cheap. Closer is not an area of need.

“Everyone here” = one poster.

 

[msgkings322]

“Everyone here” = one poster.

He's flooding the zone lol

 

[tzill]

Weird to see the Dodgers with more space than the Rockies. Proof that spending isn't everything (but also some recognition that the Dodgers have more free agents. Still that shouldn't bring them that close together).
If the Dodgers played 2023 with their roster as is, they'd probably finish 2nd (maybe 3rd) in the NL West. The Rockies, as currently configured, would probably finish last.

Just a series of bad decisions. They're still paying Arenado $16M to be an all star for the Cardinals.
$28M to KB to play 1/4 of a season.
$15M to Marquez to be mediocre
$15M to Blackmon to be awful.

Yeah, they're a shitshow and a great example of how SPEND MOHR MUHNEY isn't a viable plan.

 

[tzill]

But is that allowed in the CBA if Bum is still under contract with the DBacks? I honestly don't know, but I could see why MLB would want it that way.

One has to admit, the whole idea is quite intriguing. I hope Bum and the respective FO's see it that way as well.

I don't think so. Teams grant permission to other teams to talk to players under contract with some regularity. It's not tampering.

 

[tzill]

He's flooding the zone lol

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Why is everyone here hellbent on changing our closer? Doval is arguably top 5 in the league and still quite cheap. Closer is not an area of need.

I like asking big picture "what if?" questions, and not just mindlessly march to the pablum that the major media spoons feeds most of the country.

See posts 373 and 374. Our bullpen is not WC caliber, not anywhere near our 2010/2012/2014 relievers.

Bringing Bum back as a closer is an intriguing idea. Doval has potential, but he is young, new at it, and not yet consistent. IMHO he needs to season a bit, much Casilla and Romo did.

If we do sign Judge, we need to be ready to contend. That means having a top-shelf pen. I'm not convinced yet that Doval is the guy.

 

[tzill]

I like asking big picture "what if?" questions, and not just mindlessly march to the pablum that the major media spoons feeds most of the country.

See posts 373 and 374. Our bullpen is not WC caliber, not anywhere near our 2010/2012/2014 relievers.

Bringing Bum back as a closer is an intriguing idea. Doval has potential, but he is young, new at it, and not yet consistent. IMHO he needs to season a bit, much Casilla and Romo did.

If we do sign Judge, we need to be ready to contend. That means having a top-shelf pen. I'm not convinced yet that Doval is the guy.

Moreover, I'm a big fan of 'assemble as much talent as you can and then figure out the roles.'

We need more quality in the bullpen. Last year was a shitshow.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Moreover, I'm a big fan of 'assemble as much talent as you can and then figure out the roles.'

We need more quality in the bullpen. Last year was a shitshow.

Same wavelength here. I'd be OK with Doval being the closer, but then we should spend $10-20 mm AAV to get a couple talented 7th and 8th inning guys, IF we intend to contend. If we sign Judge, we can't afford to hope that someone in our current crop emerges.

I would find it very demoralizing if I was a SP, and was delivering some QS's, only to see the bullpen throw them away on a regular basis.

My thought of getting Bum was more for discussion purposes (but boy I'd still love to see it).

 

[LHG]

Based on the current 40 man roster configuration, this is what I think the bullpen would look like, come Opening Day:
Jakob Junis (or Cole Waites if Junis starts)
Yunior Marte
Sam Long
Thomas Szapucki
Scott Alexander
Tyler Rogers
John Brebbia
Camilo Doval

Lots of question marks on this group.

Will Junis serve as the 5th man in the rotation or will he be the opener/long relief guy in the bullpen? If he starts, Waites would most likely be next in line to land a bullpen spot. He looked great in his rapid ascent in the minors last year but will it translate to big league success?

Why is Marte even on the 40 man roster? His 2022 season was poor and has showed nothing yet in the big leagues.

Long looked decent when in the big leagues but spent most of 2022 in the minors (including a significant amount of time on the IL). Is he healthy to start 2023?

Szapucki and Alexander both looked strong in brief looks with the club. How will either translate into a full season?

Rogers looked bad early on but got much better as the season progressed. Will he pitch more like the 2021 version or the early 2022 version?

Brebbia was the opposite, looked strong early but faded toward the end. Is that just due to not pitching a full season in a long time? Will the large appearances have a tiring effect on his arm in 2023?

Doval is a stud, he's the closest to a sure thing.

 

[pachyderm]

hmmp

Jeff Kent didn't get into the HoF on his final ballot.