GDT - WCF (Game 2) Sharks at Canucks - 6:00PM

[Destroydacre]

Refs are forced to make that call because of the scoring chance it would have led to. Had Thornton just dumped the puck in they probably don't call it.

Teams gain an advantage all the time from line changes and the refs very rarely call it. The refs had it in for the Sharks in Vancouver and that's why it was called. Sure Couture may have taken longer than he should have to get off the ice, but really he was along the bench (5 foot rule), he wasn't involved in the play at all, the puck was nowhere near the bench, it was a ridiculous call. However the call did fit in completely with the officiating of the first 2 games.

 

[rares]

At some point, you gotta stop blaming the refs and admit that this team is garbage, IMO...

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Teams gain an advantage all the time from line changes and the refs very rarely call it. The refs had it in for the Sharks in Vancouver and that's why it was called. Sure Couture may have taken longer than he should have to get off the ice, but really he was along the bench (5 foot rule), he wasn't involved in the play at all, the puck was nowhere near the bench, it was a ridiculous call. However the call did fit in completely with the officiating of the first 2 games.

3-on-2, 4-on-3 advantages maybe but not clear cut breakaways. Couture wasn't involved in the play but the person coming on the ice for him cannot play the puck until Couture is completely off the ice. The 5' buffer lets that player come on the ice but they are not allowed to play the puck until the player they are changing for is off.

 

[Destroydacre]

3-on-2, 4-on-3 advantages maybe but not clear cut breakaways. Couture wasn't involved in the play but the person coming on the ice for him cannot play the puck until Couture is completely off the ice. The 5' buffer lets that player come on the ice but they are not allowed to play the puck until the player they are changing for is off.

If you get a scoring chance what difference does it make? How many times did Detroit score getting the advantage of a man jumping on early just in the last series? But no one said anything because the refs always let that go. It was a bad call and no one will convince me otherwise.

At some point, you gotta stop blaming the refs and admit that this team is garbage, IMO...

I've never said once that I thought the Sharks would win if the game was fairly officiated. But it would have been a different game. And who knows what happens then. Keep in mind that Vancouver is every bit as fragile as the Sharks. Their fans are talking about how they've matured and turned the corner, but just look at how they fell apart against Chicago only a few weeks ago. Get them up against the wall and they are no different from San Jose. The refs just made sure they were never up against that wall.

 

[madcap9999]

This offseason is a super key one. the key cogs are getting older and older. Here is my dream: (assumes the cap rises by 2M to 61.4M)

1. heater to toronto for phaneuf or to CGY for bouwmeester. not sure if the sharks can get rid of him without taking on a big unwanted salary in return. Saves 1M in cap hit, and while I know phaneuf or bouwmeester is risky, they are still young and are a big upgrade over what we got on D.

2. marleau and Vlasic to NYR for staal and Callahan. saves another 3M on the cap and adds a legit up and coming 2 way Dman and a solid top 6 forward.

3. resign white at 3M per for 4 years. Resign seto at 2 yrs, 4M. Resign Wellwood at 2 yrs 2M. That leaves them with 7.5M left on the cap.

4. Bury or trade Mitchell somewhere. Bury or trade niity somewhere. leaves 11M on the cap

5. Sign Richards for 4 yrs 32M. 8M per should just about do it. If they cant achieve this, then at least land a few solid wingers on the cheap like gagne, ryder, Upshall, Tanguay, Higgins... Still richards would be really key here.

6. Fill in the rest with whoever they can afford with the remaining 2.5M on the cap (stalock/griess, ferriero, wingels, mashinter, desjardins, Viedensky, Varone, Sgarbossa, Macintyre... Have a little healthy competition for a few roster spots. Most years, someone emerges out of the pack. Maybe the sharks can get lucky with one of those guys)

Top 8 Forwards would be: Thornton, Richards, Couture, Setoguchi, Clowe, Pavelski, Callahan, Wellwood. I feel there is enough firepower there to score sufficient goals especially given the expected jump in production from the D with phaneuf, staal, and Braun replacing Vlasic, wallin and Huskins.

top 6 D would be: Boyle, Phaneuf, Staal, White, Demers, Murray. (braun as the #7 Dman). Now that is a Defense that would scare some people with 5 of the 6 being legit scoring threats and murray as the shut down man. Good speed, good shots from the point. massive upgrade.

Goalies would be Nemo and Stalock/griess. It doesnt really matter that much who backs up nemo because he will play 65-70 games.

obviously, whats actually going to happen is that dougie will resign white, seto, and wellwood. Allow wallin and huskins to walk. Replace them just by calling up braun, and go at it with basically the same team once again, hoping for different results...

Dude, I'm officially nominating you as DW's replacement lol. I like it.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

If you get a scoring chance what difference does it make? How many times did Detroit score getting the advantage of a man jumping on early just in the last series? But no one said anything because the refs always let that go. It was a bad call and no one will convince me otherwise.

Because there is a big difference between a clear cut breakaway by the player coming on the ice compared to that player joining the rush but not touching the puck until the player he came on for is over the boards. If there is no scoring chance to be had from that player controling the puck the refs will let is slide most of the time, but if that player handles the puck and it leads to an unfair scoring advantage that call is made 99 times out of 100.

 

[Destroydacre]

Because there is a big difference between a clear cut breakaway by the player coming on the ice compared to that player joining the rush but not touching the puck until the player he came on for is over the boards. If there is no scoring chance to be had from that player controling the puck the refs will let is slide most of the time, but if that player handles the puck and it leads to an unfair scoring advantage that call is made 99 times out of 100.

There's no difference at all if a goal is scored. They're all scoring chances, a 3 on 2 executed correctly is every bit as effective as a breakaway. Like I said earlier, I can go back just to the Detroit series and find several goals where Detroit had too many men, one in particular stands out where Helm got the EN goal in game six and he played the puck right in front of the bench before his guy was off and it still wasn't called. So why now? Can't have anything to do with that 10-3 penalty disparity and high sticks to the face (among other things) not called.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

There's no difference at all if a goal is scored. They're all scoring chances, a 3 on 2 executed correctly is every bit as effective as a breakaway. Like I said earlier, I can go back just to the Detroit series and find several goals where Detroit had too many men, one in particular stands out where Helm got the EN goal in game six and he played the puck right in front of the bench before his guy was off and it still wasn't called. So why now? Can't have anything to do with that 10-3 penalty disparity and high sticks to the face (among other things) not called.

Again, a player can come off the bench and join the rush but cannot handle the puck until his player is off the ice. Players join the rush like this all the time. On Helms EN goal the player was off the ice before he had contorl of the puck. The San Jose player threw the puck into Helm before the other Detroit player was off the ice, but that's not a penality. Helm didn't gain control of the puck and play it until the other player was off.

 

[sjrules99]

the TMM call was a good one and had to be called. Now the 8 minutes of high sticking missed calls were inexcusable and pretty obvious. However, vancouver dominated the game from start to finish and have owned the last 5 periods (1st period of game 1 was ugly in both directions). The collapse was inevitable the way the sharks were just clinging to life. Vancouver is too fast, their D is to well rounded and good at both ends, and their system and coaching has it down pat. When the nucks take leads, they dont stop trying, they go for the throat unlike the sharks.

Putting it into perspective, the sharks have stunk the last 6 or 7 games (as cooch said), and arguably all playoff long. They eeked out 3 OT victories against a depleted LA team. They eeked out two OT games against a depleted detroit team. They have yet to turn in a convincing game. They have won just 1 game by more than a goal and only 3 games in regulation all playoffs. That's hardly good. They are lucky to have gotten this far, but their bad habits, lack of speed, lack of skill on the back end, lack of heart, and inferior coaching are shining through. Their record is OK, but they are just not all that good and that is being exposed big time.

 

[Slimpikins]

the TMM call was a good one and had to be called. Now the 8 minutes of high sticking missed calls were inexcusable and pretty obvious. However, vancouver dominated the game from start to finish and have owned the last 5 periods (1st period of game 1 was ugly in both directions). The collapse was inevitable the way the sharks were just clinging to life. Vancouver is too fast, their D is to well rounded and good at both ends, and their system and coaching has it down pat. When the nucks take leads, they dont stop trying, they go for the throat unlike the sharks.

Putting it into perspective, the sharks have stunk the last 6 or 7 games (as cooch said), and arguably all playoff long. They eeked out 3 OT victories against a depleted LA team. They eeked out two OT games against a depleted detroit team. They have yet to turn in a convincing game. They have won just 1 game by more than a goal and only 3 games in regulation all playoffs. That's hardly good. They are lucky to have gotten this far, but their bad habits, lack of speed, lack of skill on the back end, lack of heart, and inferior coaching are shining through. Their record is OK, but they are just not all that good and that is being exposed big time.

That is pretty bad.

Counterpoint: If you can play that shitty and still make the conference finals, there is a lot of skill on this team. Now it's just seperating the cream from the milk then filling out the roster...

 

[sjrules99]

That is pretty bad.

Counterpoint: If you can play that shitty and still make the conference finals, there is a lot of skill on this team. Now it's just seperating the cream from the milk then filling out the roster...

...OR... you avoided the 3 hardest teams to play until the conference finals: anaheim, chicago, vancouver and lucked out playing the weakest team in the entire first round (LA w/o Kopitar and an injured williams), and a really beat up team in the second round without arguably their best PO performer the past few years in Franzen and an injured version of one of their other best players (zetterberg). They almost lost to a virtual one-man show.

I truly believe that if the sharks had to face either of ANA or CHI, they would have lost to them too, especially chicago who might well have won a best of 9 series in that first round.

BTW, the same thing happened last year. Sharks lucked out getting colorado without mueller (who destroyed the sharks) and a few others on that team, and still almost lost. Then they got another injured, old, tired red wings team coming off a 7 game burner with phoenix before getting destroyed by a superior, faster chicago team with outstanding deep 2-way defense (sound familiar???).

Simply put, the sharks are an above average team that has gotten pretty lucky the last two PO's to get as far as they did.

on the bright side, at least now we know jumbo is not completely useless in the PO's.

 

[Ties5o11]

At some point, you gotta stop blaming the refs and admit that this team is garbage, IMO...

Garbage teams don't make it to the Conference Finals two years in a row. This team can come back, but they MUST win tomorrow.

 

[rares]

OK, an incredibly lucky (matchups-wise through 2 rounds both years) garbage team...

 

[Ties5o11]

The Red Wings and Kings combined for 202 points. I am too lazy to look it up, but Ill bet you that is WAY higher than the total number of points for NHL teams through 2 rounds. (worded poorly, but you should get the point).

Sharks lost 2 games. It sucks, but that suddenly does not make them a terrible team. We'll get one back tomorrow.

 

[Ties5o11]

...OR... you avoided the 3 hardest teams to play until the conference finals: anaheim, chicago, vancouver and lucked out playing the weakest team in the entire first round (LA w/o Kopitar and an injured williams), and a really beat up team in the second round without arguably their best PO performer the past few years in Franzen and an injured version of one of their other best players (zetterberg). They almost lost to a virtual one-man show.

I think you're kidding yourself if you think the Ducks or Hawks were tougher match ups than the Wings.

Kopitar-less Kings was a break, but they still have one of the stingiest defenses in the league and the Sharks were able to light it up. Give the team some credit!

 

[Slimpikins]

...OR... you avoided the 3 hardest teams to play until the conference finals: anaheim, chicago, vancouver and lucked out playing the weakest team in the entire first round (LA w/o Kopitar and an injured williams), and a really beat up team in the second round without arguably their best PO performer the past few years in Franzen and an injured version of one of their other best players (zetterberg). They almost lost to a virtual one-man show.

I truly believe that if the sharks had to face either of ANA or CHI, they would have lost to them too, especially chicago who might well have won a best of 9 series in that first round.

BTW, the same thing happened last year. Sharks lucked out getting colorado without mueller (who destroyed the sharks) and a few others on that team, and still almost lost. Then they got another injured, old, tired red wings team coming off a 7 game burner with phoenix before getting destroyed by a superior, faster chicago team with outstanding deep 2-way defense (sound familiar???).

Simply put, the sharks are an above average team that has gotten pretty lucky the last two PO's to get as far as they did.

on the bright side, at least now we know jumbo is not completely useless in the PO's.

Let's not overreact too much here. Afterall durring the offseason a healthy portion of you predicted that this team wouldn't even make the playoffs with this defense.

I think you're kidding yourself if you think the Ducks or Hawks were tougher match ups than the Wings.

Kopitar-less Kings was a break, but they still have one of the stingiest defenses in the league and the Sharks were able to light it up. Give the team some credit!

Exactly.

Chicago was not the Chicago of last year. Anaheim would have been tough but I still think that San Jose is a better team.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Let's not overreact too much here. Afterall durring the offseason a healthy portion of you predicted that this team wouldn't even make the playoffs with this defense.

In their defense the team at that time had Wallin playing top four minutes, Huskins as a regular in the line-up, and no White. Lets not forget that before the aquistion of White that defense had this team at 12th in the conference.

 

[sjrules99]

its impossible to know if the sharks would have beater ANA or CHI for obvious reasons. However, at the end of the year, those two teams were giving the sharks big issues and have a history of whooping the sharks in the PO's. Chicago will be back next year and they are that good despite their poor regular season. Bickell is a good player and they still have a pretty solid top 4 D and top 6 F. They were inches from ousting the team that is now crushing the sharks. It will likely be chicago-vancouver next year in the WCF if I had to predict today. DET is on the decline and I expect CHI to recover.

As for regular season points, I think the sharks prove that they dont mean all that much. However, yes, the kings had many points, until kopitar went down and then they only won a few games without him. As for the wings, they got a ton of points early, but then faded as injuries came up and more importantly, they beat up on teams like columbus and st louis who ranked 10th and 13th in the conference, not to mention that without franzen and an unhealthy zetterberg, they arent the same team as the regular season one.

And no, they are not a terrible team. I never said they were. They are a very good team, arguably top 5 in the league (they might be better than any eastern team). They just arent THAT good either. Vancouver is just superior just as chicago was clearly last year. As for 2 games, actually the sharks havent beaten the nucks in regular in all 6 games they've played just as last year the sharks finished 1-7 vs. chicago with the only win being a shallacking where chicago took like 40 shots to 15 for SJ.

Gotta call a spade a spade.

 

[sjrules99]

In their defense the team at that time had Wallin playing top four minutes, Huskins as a regular in the line-up, and no White. Lets not forget that before the aquistion of White that defense had this team at 12th in the conference.

Exactly. They likely would have made the PO's without white since they were just underperforming and the goaltending had been unstable. Nevertheless, their D is just not very good and it's exposed big time.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

This offseason is a super key one. the key cogs are getting older and older. Here is my dream: (assumes the cap rises by 2M to 61.4M)

1. heater to toronto for phaneuf or to CGY for bouwmeester. not sure if the sharks can get rid of him without taking on a big unwanted salary in return. Saves 1M in cap hit, and while I know phaneuf or bouwmeester is risky, they are still young and are a big upgrade over what we got on D.

2. marleau and Vlasic to NYR for staal and Callahan. saves another 3M on the cap and adds a legit up and coming 2 way Dman and a solid top 6 forward.

3. resign white at 3M per for 4 years. Resign seto at 2 yrs, 4M. Resign Wellwood at 2 yrs 2M. That leaves them with 7.5M left on the cap.

4. Bury or trade Mitchell somewhere. Bury or trade niity somewhere. leaves 11M on the cap

5. Sign Richards for 4 yrs 32M. 8M per should just about do it. If they cant achieve this, then at least land a few solid wingers on the cheap like gagne, ryder, Upshall, Tanguay, Higgins... Still richards would be really key here.

6. Fill in the rest with whoever they can afford with the remaining 2.5M on the cap (stalock/griess, ferriero, wingels, mashinter, desjardins, Viedensky, Varone, Sgarbossa, Macintyre... Have a little healthy competition for a few roster spots. Most years, someone emerges out of the pack. Maybe the sharks can get lucky with one of those guys)

Top 8 Forwards would be: Thornton, Richards, Couture, Setoguchi, Clowe, Pavelski, Callahan, Wellwood. I feel there is enough firepower there to score sufficient goals especially given the expected jump in production from the D with phaneuf, staal, and Braun replacing Vlasic, wallin and Huskins.

top 6 D would be: Boyle, Phaneuf, Staal, White, Demers, Murray. (braun as the #7 Dman). Now that is a Defense that would scare some people with 5 of the 6 being legit scoring threats and murray as the shut down man. Good speed, good shots from the point. massive upgrade.

Goalies would be Nemo and Stalock/griess. It doesnt really matter that much who backs up nemo because he will play 65-70 games.

obviously, whats actually going to happen is that dougie will resign white, seto, and wellwood. Allow wallin and huskins to walk. Replace them just by calling up braun, and go at it with basically the same team once again, hoping for different results...

Lets not go overboard here.

First off, no and hell no to the players you suggest in section one. Right idea, wrong players IMO.

Get rid of Wallin, Huskins, and Heatley, get a solid 2-way top four dman and re-sign white and the defense is set.

At forward, move Mitchell to the 4th line then add speed with offensive ability to the 2nd and 3rd lines. Re-signing Wellwood is fine but adding a guy like Jussi Jokinen to the 3rd line over Mitchell would go a long way. Someone like Patrick Sharp would be good for the other top six forward.