GDT - WCF (Game 2) Sharks at Canucks - 6:00PM

[Slimpikins]

In their defense the team at that time had Wallin playing top four minutes, Huskins as a regular in the line-up, and no White. Lets not forget that before the aquistion of White that defense had this team at 12th in the conference.

12th in a very tight Western conference. At one point in the season six points seperated 12th from 5th. That's only three wins. It's not like White rode in on his horse and saved this pathetic team.

I wasn't saying that they are a prefect team, what I was pointing out is that eventhough they have haven't been firing on all cylinders they have still made the conference finals. That isn't just luck and scheduling. There are plenty of teams out there that couldn't make the WCF playing their best hockey.

This team has a lot of skill on it. Sure it still has it's weaknesses but let's not act like any and all success is a fluke. Christ, I have never known a more depressing fan base.

 

[Slimpikins]

Exactly. They likely would have made the PO's without white since they were just underperforming and the goaltending had been unstable. Nevertheless, their D is just not very good and it's exposed big time.

That is another big reason for the slow start, both of our goalies were new and Niemi played pretty damn bad early in the year. Sure it helps to get White but he is hardly the savior reincarnate (and if he is that would still mean that the team now has some skill on it )

 

[sjrules99]

That is another big reason for the slow start, both of our goalies were new and Niemi played pretty damn bad early in the year. Sure it helps to get White but he is hardly the savior reincarnate (and if he is that would still mean that the team now has some skill on it )

No question that white is not the knight in... well... white. Dont get me wrong, there is a lot of skill on the team. They are clearly in the top echelon of the league. I dont think anyone would tell you that they are in the bottom half or even that they aren't in the top 5 or 10. However, once the cream of the crop has been separated and just the best of the best remain, the sharks clearly dont stack up. That's all... They are skilled but its really hard to win a cup with 3 totally immobile Dmen, and only one legit threat from the blueline in the form of a nearly 35 year old (with all due respect to white, he isnt a top pairing guy and is a serviceable #3/4).

Chicago and Vancouver are the fastest teams in the west by far as well as having their best players younger and in their primes or soon-to-be. Speed is the name of the game now in the new NHL, and while the sharks have some guys with speed, they have a few too many lugs as well. Dougie needs to get faster and much more mobile, especially at the back end. The sharks arent THAT far from a cup. Their core is good. Jumbo made huge strides. Cooch looks like a legit star stud in the making. Boyle is aging but still effective. Niemi has been the lone shining star of the series and is making a lot of big saves. There is lots of reason for optimism if dougie can improve the D this offseason.

 

[rares]

Or, better yet, let's hope there's no more Dougie after this season and the team hires a GM who knows what it takes to win in today's NHL (cause Dougie surely does not)...

 

[sjrules99]

Looking closely, the sharks really only need 1 top pairing Dman this offseason...

Boyle-Murray
Stud-White
Demers-Vlasic
Braun

It's a good Defense. maybe not quite as good and nucks or chicago, but much much closer, particularly if demers can progress some. The 22 minutes per night from the stud would make a massive difference when compared to wallin. Just 1 top Dman can play nearly half the game. Obvously, those kind of guys arent exactly so easy to get, but that has to be the target and it's dougie's job to fill it.

If it landed a guy like staal, weber, or the like, then I could see dougie trading pavs actually. He is a very valuable guy and a whole lot of teams would really want him especially at the very reasonable number of 4M. obviously, I wouldnt want him to go, but you have to give to get and Im not sure other teams would give up a stud defenseman for a 7.5M guy with a problematic history or for a to-be 32 year old 7M man who also has a spotty past in terms of consistency. The real trade chips in dougie's pocket are guys like clowe, pavs, and vlasic. Younger players coming into the their primes with reasonable contracts. Pavs has struggled with the speed game. He was bad vs. chicago and bad vs. vancouver. Maybe he just isnt built to play the faster teams...

 

[sjrules99]

Or, better yet, let's hope there's no more Dougie after this season and the team hires a GM who knows what it takes to win in today's NHL (cause Dougie surely does not)...

Who does? Gillis has done a spectacular job, no question though he has gotten a bit lucky in that he got the sedins at #2,3 overall in '99, and has gotten incredible development from late picks like Edler (91st overall) and Bieksa (151st). Still though, he has done a fabulous job hands down.

However, chicago and pitt won because they stunk for so long and got top picks in multiple drafts in a row. Holland is a superstar GM too, but his riding his stars may be coming to an end too.

Id say Holland and Gillis are better. Lamourello as well, but dougie is probably in the top 5. The sharks have been in the top 5 in the conference every year he's been GM, and that is without the benefit of a natural top 10 pick since 2003 (not by trade). He goofed with Wallin, but if you trash him for Wallin, then you have to credit him for Couture.

As I said, this is a big big offseason. The big boys are in their primes but getting older and the heart and soul of the D is gunna be 35 and I think it's starting to show. This is a big year for the shape of the defense for many years to come I feel.

Will white be signed long term? Will dougie simply rely on the development of demers and braun to pick up the slack? Will dougie go after a legit top pairing defensemen and pull off another of his pretty big trades? Pavelski, Vlasic and a 1st for weber, something like that?

Lots of question marks and storylines, but all of it is more exciting in the context of stable goaltending, a reborn captain, and the rookie of year stepping it up when it matters most.

 

[rares]

I do not care who takes over for Dougie... Anyone will do.

Like I wrote many times before, I have no idea what GM is available and what their track record is but this one sucks shit, so let's get a new one in.

No, not just upset about Wallin... Huskins, Heatley, Mayers, Eager, Mitchell, McGinn, etc. (I'm forgetting a couple)

1/3 of the roster is made up of overpaid stiffs who are useless/liabilities in today's NHL... and people are surprised that the team can't get it done!

 

[Cbrower91]

lol this finger pointing ass orgy is fucking hilarious, easiest thing in the world to do is sit on your ass from the outside and after the fact and point out what's wrong.

sharks shouldve traded pavelski for pelkanec, speedy and good in both ends. of course the obvious is nkle line upgrade. Gm isn't the problem and neither is coaching, the team is mentally drained from that detroit series

 

[sjrules99]

lol this finger pointing ass orgy is fucking hilarious, easiest thing in the world to do is sit on your ass from the outside and after the fact and point out what's wrong.

sharks shouldve traded pavelski for pelkanec, speedy and good in both ends. of course the obvious is nkle line upgrade. Gm isn't the problem and neither is coaching, the team is mentally drained from that detroit series

after the fact? Everyone has known that the D would be a problem this year since they signed wallin a year ago. it's not after the fact at all.

if dougie upgrades the D this offseason, then there is lots of reason for optimism. Also, we cant forget that nearly every year, somebody rather unexpected emerges. Demers two year ago. Cooch this year. Who knows who it will be next year. maybe Viedensky, wingels, or sgarbossa steps up and takes a top 9 forward spot? or maybe petrecki finally develops or taylor dougherty pulls a Tyler Myers and suddenly dominates? Its hard to predict, but with a solidified defense, the sharks will continue being a threat.

 

[Cbrower91]

after the fact? Everyone has known that the D would be a problem this year since they signed wallin a year ago. it's not after the fact at all.

if dougie upgrades the D this offseason, then there is lots of reason for optimism. Also, we cant forget that nearly every year, somebody rather unexpected emerges. Demers two year ago. Cooch this year. Who knows who it will be next year. maybe Viedensky, wingels, or sgarbossa steps up and takes a top 9 forward spot? or maybe petrecki finally develops or taylor dougherty pulls a Tyler Myers and suddenly dominates? Its hard to predict, but with a solidified defense, the sharks will continue being a threat.

I thinking about petrecki today and how he fell off lol. I think Braun is the guy next year, along with Demers. I really think Demers is going to be the first home grown elite Dman or at the very least second tier #1 dman theyve had in some time.

I think Braun has that potential as well, i think the blue lines future looks good with the other 3 staying the same.

 

[sjrules99]

I thinking about petrecki today and how he fell off lol. I think Braun is the guy next year, along with Demers. I really think Demers is going to be the first home grown elite Dman or at the very least second tier #1 dman theyve had in some time.

I think Braun has that potential as well, i think the blue lines future looks good with the other 3 staying the same.

Obviously, I hope you are right on both fronts. I'm unsure about demers. He has already proven himself as a sure fire NHLer, and he is so young that it's hard to say how far he can climb.

I am always skeptical though because you recall how excited the whole SJ world got when a 19 year old scrawny guy with last name the same as a cucumber company emerged from training camp as a serious stud and proceeded to have a great rookie year. Then a couple years later, that same guy had a first 30 games and found himself in the top 10 or 20 in league-wide defensive scoring. Now? He's a serviceable #4 with minimal offensive upside and a respectable defensive game.

Braun hasnt wowed me to that degree, and he is already 24, so he should be further along in his development. I agree that he is gunna be in the NHL next year, I am just not sure if he will be the two-way impact player we all hope for.

Theres been alot of hope for guys like Pickles, Carle, Petrecki, and even guys like Brad Stuart, Jeff Jillson, and Andrei Zyuzin, but none of them have become top pairing defensemen. Hopefully braun and demers may buck the trend, but I'm not sold on either to be the savior just yet. I would still like to see dougie land a legit, proven #1 or #2 dman this offseason and give those two a couple years to blossom.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Demers developement and style of play reminds me a lot of Kris Letang. As long as he keeps taking steps forward with his developement I think he could turn into a very solid #2 or #3 dman.

 

[Cbrower91]

Demers developement and style of play reminds me a lot of Kris Letang. As long as he keeps taking steps forward with his developement I think he could turn into a very solid #2 or #3 dman.

I see a much better defense rob blake, but it might be the hip checks and big shot from the blue line, and the ability to walk the blue line