GDT 5/25 Lincecums vs Havanians

[Stokes1931]

I hate games like this, it was so winnable. We had the Fish pitcher on the ropes, and couldn't score more than single runs in three innings. Then Lincecum with the regularly scheduled meltdown. How much rope do Noggin and Raggs give this guy? This is embarrassing!

Giants now with 49 errors in 46 games

Giants have given up 35 runs in the last six games, and won 3 of them.

 

[Stokes1931]

What's scary is that Lincecum and JSanchez have nearly identical ERA's and WHIP's, and we KNOW what kind of season Sanchez is having.

 

[msgkings322]

What's scary is that Lincecum and JSanchez have nearly identical ERA's and WHIP's, and we KNOW what kind of season Sanchez is having.

That's what I mentioned before, Timmy is now a guy who maybe can give you 5 innings, while walking a bunch of guys. Just like our old pal Chez.

I think he has the capability to learn to be a decent #3 type control pitcher, but I really feel he should be working on it in the minors while the season is still young. If he just learns to spot his pitches better and not walk guys, he will be effective again.

 

[msgkings322]

At least the Brewers and Astros(!) took care of Kennedy (!) and Kershaw (!!) tonight...both teams losing at home.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

That's what I mentioned before, Timmy is now a guy who maybe can give you 5 innings, while walking a bunch of guys. Just like our old pal Chez.

I think he has the capability to learn to be a decent #3 type control pitcher, but I really feel he should be working on it in the minors while the season is still young. If he just learns to spot his pitches better and not walk guys, he will be effective again.

Wait are you saying Lincecum should be in the minors? Working things out? And are you saying it is now only possible that he can be a decent #3? Tim Lincecum?

There are so many different amazed dismayed befuddled head smacking things to say to that, and I can't think of any of them I am so fucking stunned by all the head smacking.

 

[msgkings322]

Wait are you saying Lincecum should be in the minors? Working things out? And are you saying it is now only possible that he can be a decent #3? Tim Lincecum?

There are so many different amazed dismayed befuddled head smacking things to say to that, and I can't think of any of them I am so fucking stunned by all the head smacking.

Well, uh, like, yeah man.

Have you just started paying attention? The befuddled head smacking part is this stat line, which is now almost 2 months old: 53.1 IP, 6.41 ERA, 1.613 WHIP, 4.9 BB/9 (!), 2 KO/BB, avg fastball velocity maybe 91-92?

So, I'm saying throwing that guy out there every 5 days to lose for us isn't working, time for a change, like working on his new game in the minors for 3-4 starts. While the season is still young.

 

[Freeport 22]

Well, uh, like, yeah man.

Have you just started paying attention? The befuddled head smacking part is this stat line, which is now almost 2 months old: 53.1 IP, 6.41 ERA, 1.613 WHIP, 4.9 BB/9 (!), 2 KO/BB, avg fastball velocity maybe 91-92?

So, I'm saying throwing that guy out there every 5 days to lose for us isn't working, time for a change, like working on his new game in the minors for 3-4 starts. While the season is still young.

Timmy has 2 Cy Youngs and helped us win a World Series and if the Giants gave him any run support he would be a multiple 20 game winner and you're ready to send him to the Minors ??

The Giants have put up w/ Zito all these years and he still goes out there every 5 days .

If Timmy is still struggling in late July / Mid August w/ an ERA over 5 then I'll worry , he piched 5 good Innings Yesterday and still has more K's than Innings pitched , Timmy's earned the chance to stay in the rotation .

 

[msgkings322]

Timmy has 2 Cy Youngs and helped us win a World Series and if the Giants gave him any run support he would be a multiple 20 game winner and you're ready to send him to the Minors ??

The Giants have put up w/ Zito all these years and he still goes out there every 5 days .

If Timmy is still struggling in late July / Mid August w/ an ERA over 5 then I'll worry , he piched 5 good Innings Yesterday and still has more K's than Innings pitched , Timmy's earned the chance to stay in the rotation .

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here...I'm not saying Tim gets kicked out of the rotation, I'm saying he's having OBVIOUS DIFFICULTY ADJUSTING to his new status without elite velocity. Let's work on it for a bit and then put him back out there.

Zito has no chance of ever being better than mediocre, but he's only our 5th starter. Tim has to be better than what he's shown so far. Zito won a Cy Young too, so what?

If you guys are saying it makes more sense for him to work out his problems in the majors and guarantee us a few more losses doing so, I guess that's your call...

 

[msgkings322]

Timmy has 2 Cy Youngs and helped us win a World Series and if the Giants gave him any run support he would be a multiple 20 game winner and you're ready to send him to the Minors ??

The Giants have put up w/ Zito all these years and he still goes out there every 5 days .

If Timmy is still struggling in late July / Mid August w/ an ERA over 5 then I'll worry , he piched 5 good Innings Yesterday and still has more K's than Innings pitched , Timmy's earned the chance to stay in the rotation .

Also, if from right now Tim pitches with an ERA of 3.60 through late July, his overall ERA would still be at 5. But obviously that would be terrific if he did so and he'd be our 3rd or maybe 4th best pitcher, but that speaks more to how awesome our rotation is.

 

[filosofy29]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here...I'm not saying Tim gets kicked out of the rotation, I'm saying he's having OBVIOUS DIFFICULTY ADJUSTING to his new status without elite velocity. Let's work on it for a bit and then put him back out there.

Zito has no chance of ever being better than mediocre, but he's only our 5th starter. Tim has to be better than what he's shown so far. Zito won a Cy Young too, so what?

If you guys are saying it makes more sense for him to work out his problems in the majors and guarantee us a few more losses doing so, I guess that's your call...

I think it all comes down to how the organization views his problem(s). If they think he's come around mechanically, but he's still struggling with the mental/confidence part of his game (this is where I'm leaning to, but I'm far from an expert and I have zero inside information), I think sending him down to the minors would be the worst thing you could do. If they (Righetti and Co.) think that his mechanics are still missing and that he can't consistently find the right arm slots and release points but he's ok upstairs, then maybe a stint in the minors could work.

In my humble opinion, he seems to not trust what he's doing out there right now (from his body language). He used to go out there with a "fuck you" attitude and now it seems like he's battling an "I'm fucked" attitude. Sending him down to the minors is a high risk/unknown reward proposition. These guys are professionals and (in a lot of cases) got there by having a ton of skill and a ton of ego/pride. He still makes great hitters swing and miss and he's still gets a lot of 0's when he pitches. He's being victimized by one inning most of the time. That to me, coupled with his body language on the mound after a walk or two, screams that the problem is between the ears. Who knows though, maybe when the mind starts wandering his mechanics go awry as well. I still think he can (and will be) an Ace again if he can get his head right. If he is a "#3" as you put it, it will only be because of the rotation he's a part of.....his stuff still has Ace written all over it.

One thing is for certain though, it has been a disappointing season for him.

 

[msgkings322]

I think it all comes down to how the organization views his problem(s). If they think he's come around mechanically, but he's still struggling with the mental/confidence part of his game (this is where I'm leaning to, but I'm far from an expert and I have zero inside information), I think sending him down to the minors would be the worst thing you could do. If they (Righetti and Co.) think that his mechanics are still missing and that he can't consistently find the right arm slots and release points but he's ok upstairs, then maybe a stint in the minors could work.

In my humble opinion, he seems to not trust what he's doing out there right now (from his body language). He used to go out there with a "fuck you" attitude and now it seems like he's battling an "I'm fucked" attitude. Sending him down to the minors is a high risk/unknown reward proposition. These guys are professionals and (in a lot of cases) got there by having a ton of skill and a ton of ego/pride. He still makes great hitters swing and miss and he's still gets a lot of 0's when he pitches. He's being victimized by one inning most of the time. That to me, coupled with his body language on the mound after a walk or two, screams that the problem is between the ears. Who knows though, maybe when the mind starts wandering his mechanics go awry as well. I still think he can (and will be) an Ace again if he can get his head right. If he is a "#3" as you put it, it will only be because of the rotation he's a part of.....his stuff still has Ace written all over it.

One thing is for certain though, it has been a disappointing season for him.

Great post, makes a lot of sense. I agree if he's just having mental issues then maybe a minors stint would hurt more than help. But it might still help, if he goes down there and kicks ass which I think he would, then he figures out how to be effective with a 92 mph fastball and how to pitch when he walks a guy or two. Then his confidence is back and he comes up to the majors and does it there?

I do trust the brass to figure it out, but it's just my opinion that it will entail some kind of non-pressure work. But I could be and often am very wrong about this stuff.

 

[tzill]

Wait are you saying Lincecum should be in the minors? Working things out? And are you saying it is now only possible that he can be a decent #3? Tim Lincecum?

There are so many different amazed dismayed befuddled head smacking things to say to that, and I can't think of any of them I am so fucking stunned by all the head smacking.

IHD has been concussed. Put him under 72 hour observation.

 

[tzill]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here...I'm not saying Tim gets kicked out of the rotation, I'm saying he's having OBVIOUS DIFFICULTY ADJUSTING to his new status without elite velocity. Let's work on it for a bit and then put him back out there.

Zito has no chance of ever being better than mediocre, but he's only our 5th starter. Tim has to be better than what he's shown so far. Zito won a Cy Young too, so what?

If you guys are saying it makes more sense for him to work out his problems in the majors and guarantee us a few more losses doing so, I guess that's your call...

I don't think they'll be sending Tim to the minors. Here's what I think WILL happen though: Tim is scheduled to pitch on Fri vs. the Cubs, then June 6 in SD. He'll make those two starts. If he's still struggling with locating the fastball, they will skip his next turn after that (June 12 vs. the Astros at home). He'd then pitch June 16 in his hometown in interleague play. That would give him 10 days (June 6 -16) to work with Raggs and have about three serious sessions where he throws 50+ pitches in a simulated game setting.

He ain't going to Fresno.

 

[tzill]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here...I'm not saying Tim gets kicked out of the rotation, I'm saying he's having OBVIOUS DIFFICULTY ADJUSTING to his new status without elite velocity. Let's work on it for a bit and then put him back out there.

Zito has no chance of ever being better than mediocre, but he's only our 5th starter. Tim has to be better than what he's shown so far. Zito won a Cy Young too, so what?

If you guys are saying it makes more sense for him to work out his problems in the majors and guarantee us a few more losses doing so, I guess that's your call...

There's your logical fail, MSG. You're assuming your conclusion. Neither you, I, nor anyone else knows if/when it's going to "click in" for Timmy. You're assuming the worst. That's your right, but it's hardly inevitable.

 

[msgkings322]

There's your logical fail, MSG. You're assuming your conclusion. Neither you, I, nor anyone else knows if/when it's going to "click in" for Timmy. You're assuming the worst. That's your right, but it's hardly inevitable.

Oh c'mon, tzill. We all assume the worst when Burriss bats, or Pagan tries to handle a tough play in CF, etc. Right now until he shows he's figured it out i assuming he's going to go 5 innings, give up 4 runs, and walk 5 dudes. But once he has a really good game, his pedigree means we can start assuming better.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Well, uh, like, yeah man.

Have you just started paying attention? The befuddled head smacking part is this stat line, which is now almost 2 months old: 53.1 IP, 6.41 ERA, 1.613 WHIP, 4.9 BB/9 (!), 2 KO/BB, avg fastball velocity maybe 91-92?

So, I'm saying throwing that guy out there every 5 days to lose for us isn't working, time for a change, like working on his new game in the minors for 3-4 starts. While the season is still young.

Haha! Have I just started paying attention? Pffft... Dude I've been paying attention for the past 5+ years, it is you who sounds like they have just started paying!

He has a mile-long rope as far as I'm concerned (and as far as most of us are concerned judging by the responses here). I know he's been terrible one inning per game this season, however I have the attention span and patience of a seasoned fan, not some tweaky squirrel

Timmay is not going to the minors, if this continues I could see skipping a start... maybe trip to the bullpen, something along those lines. I'm still amazed anyone would suggest the Tim Lincecum in the minors is a good idea. That's not something he deserves nor something that I think would benefit him or the Giants.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

IHD has been concussed. Put him under 72 hour observation.

Nothing a little scotch can't cure! wait that might make it worse... I'll let you know!

 

[tzill]

Oh c'mon, tzill. We all assume the worst when Burriss bats, or Pagan tries to handle a tough play in CF, etc. Right now until he shows he's figured it out i assuming he's going to go 5 innings, give up 4 runs, and walk 5 dudes. But once he has a really good game, his pedigree means we can start assuming better.

You're really going to draw a parallel between BurAss, Oxy, and Timmy fucking Lincecum?

Talk about head smacking.