Game of Thrones

[night]

It is Tyrion. In that same shot were Daenerys, Sansa, Arya, and some others that are still alive. I don't think they are hinting that they will all die anytime soon, but simply teasing that they could die, and some most likely will, but not all. I don't think they would spoil anything like that in a teaser.

My interpretation of the teaser is that at first they are reminding us of some of the major characters that were killed off as a way of reminding the viewer that anyone can die. Then at the end they show the faces of the remaining characters as if to say "Who's next?" In between the 2 sets of characters you have Jon Snow as there seems to be some ambiguity about his fate. If what everyone is expecting to happen happens, he's a bit of both but doesn't fully belong with either group.

I really like that teaser but I wish they found time to include Tywin with a quote from one of his family legacy rants.

They have already taken Sandor and Stannis from me who are couple of my favorite characters but I'm still holding out hope that they are still alive since I didn't actually see them die on screen. Now all I have left are Bronn and Tyrion.

I've been starting to root for Daenerys to die in the past few seasons just so her boring story line can stop being a huge focus. I'm starting to come around to the idea that all of the likable characters will come back as whitewalkers so I can cheer for them as they conquer Westeros.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Not to a huge degree, no. But they have made a couple changes that really annoyed me. And Martin does consult, but doesn't micro manage.

As a for instance, one of the changes, maybe even the only change that I'm still upset about is the Gilly and Sam love story. Screwing her is a tiny little change, and doesn't change much about the whole story at all. But it completely changes Sam's character from the way he was written. Instead of being kind of a redemption story about Sam Tarly being disowned and sent to the wall to die, he comes to the wall and dedicates himself to something greater than himself. If he follows the rules of the nightswatch, then getting Jon Snow elected was the right thing to do. Protecting Gilly was the noble thing to do. Standing up to other brothers of the nightscwatch was in essence him becoming a Lord in spite of his father, albeit without the title. It's his coming of age moment, the high point of his redemption. It makes him a character you are forced to like and root for. Instead of all that, he protected Gilly because she had some tits and he wanted to get his dick wet. He stood toe to toe and fought his fellow nights watch, not for the greater good, but because he wanted to bang her first. It was him breaking his vows as a sworn brother and putting himself before the team. Pure selfishness, and it calls everything he's ever done into question. Did he almost single handedly help get Jon elected because he believed he was the best man to lead them? Or just because it was his friend? Just by sleeping with her they took away everything good he had ever done, and basically made him into everything most people hate in a person.

And why did they make that stupid little change? Not because it worked better on screen this way. Not because they needed filler. Not because it was too expensive to film it. But because some asshole somewhere said "We need some sort of love story or women won't watch this." THAT is when I get upset about changes, when the change is needless and takes away from the story.

Sam doesn't even make my top 5 as far as stupid BS the show runners have changed just because they think their shit don't stink. For instance:

-Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne was a clusterfuck that made no sense.
-Instead of Sansa starting to become a player like in the books, she's just a constant victim as before.
-Everything goes right for Brienne of Tarth. Starting to get annoying how she's always in the right place at the right time. ( Stumbling upon Arya and Sansa out of dumb luck, stumbling upon Stannis, etc. )
- Stannis, who is widely renowned for being one of the best military commanders in the world, marches right up to Winterfell with 200 guys who aren't in formation. No. Just no.
-I could go on for awhile about what they're doing with the Greyjoys and Boltons but it's not worth the time.

I'll give them this though, Hardhome was awesome. That change was necessary and was overall very well done.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Are they hinting that Tyrion dies?

Seems that way to me.

Who knows if it will happen, but they're definitely floating it out there.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

They have already taken Sandor and Stannis from me who are couple of my favorite characters but I'm still holding out hope that they are still alive since I didn't actually see them die on screen. Now all I have left are Bronn and Tyrion.

I've been starting to root for Daenerys to die in the past few seasons just so her boring story line can stop being a huge focus. I'm starting to come around to the idea that all of the likable characters will come back as whitewalkers so I can cheer for them as they conquer Westeros.

Don't care who they kill as long as it's not that redheaded fire witch. I want to see her nekkid more.

 

[flyerhawk]

Don't care who they kill as long as it's not that redheaded fire witch. I want to see her nekkid more.

Just don't invite her to a baby shower...

 

[Innermind]

Just don't invite her to a baby shower...

Seth Meyers also invited Jon Snow to a dinner party:

 

[juliansteed]

They have already taken Sandor and Stannis from me who are couple of my favorite characters but I'm still holding out hope that they are still alive since I didn't actually see them die on screen.

This is pretty vague as far as spoilers go. It's more of a theory than anything. On a scale of 1 to 10 it's probably about a 3, but just in case I'll use the spoiler feature.

Spoiler

You might be onto something. The books don't offer any definite answers but some possible clues that one of them might still be alive. The other's story has deviated quite a bit from the books at this point so your guess is as good as anyone else's.

 

[wildturkey]

Not to a huge degree, no. But they have made a couple changes that really annoyed me. And Martin does consult, but doesn't micro manage.

As a for instance, one of the changes, maybe even the only change that I'm still upset about is the Gilly and Sam love story. Screwing her is a tiny little change, and doesn't change much about the whole story at all. But it completely changes Sam's character from the way he was written. Instead of being kind of a redemption story about Sam Tarly being disowned and sent to the wall to die, he comes to the wall and dedicates himself to something greater than himself. If he follows the rules of the nightswatch, then getting Jon Snow elected was the right thing to do. Protecting Gilly was the noble thing to do. Standing up to other brothers of the nightscwatch was in essence him becoming a Lord in spite of his father, albeit without the title. It's his coming of age moment, the high point of his redemption. It makes him a character you are forced to like and root for. Instead of all that, he protected Gilly because she had some tits and he wanted to get his dick wet. He stood toe to toe and fought his fellow nights watch, not for the greater good, but because he wanted to bang her first. It was him breaking his vows as a sworn brother and putting himself before the team. Pure selfishness, and it calls everything he's ever done into question. Did he almost single handedly help get Jon elected because he believed he was the best man to lead them? Or just because it was his friend? Just by sleeping with her they took away everything good he had ever done, and basically made him into everything most people hate in a person.

And why did they make that stupid little change? Not because it worked better on screen this way. Not because they needed filler. Not because it was too expensive to film it. But because some asshole somewhere said "We need some sort of love story or women won't watch this." THAT is when I get upset about changes, when the change is needless and takes away from the story.

This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. People freaking out over what's really minuscule changes. Just because its not verbatim doesn't mean it derails an entire story. Sam still does all those things from the books to the show, but his motivations for Gilly aren't purely driven by sex. He has a kind soul. He's drawn to her because she had a baby that's ultimately going to be put to death. Being a good natured person, he does what he can to protect them both and falls in love over the course of events. Plus, its Gilly that initiates the sex in show. Several times Sam tries to remove himself from getting too close to Gilly because he wants to remain loyal to the vows he taken to be with the Night's Watch. All his qualities are still there. In fact, he's one of the most noble characters on the show which is the point of his character, he was cast aside as human garbage by his father because he thought he was worthless but his actions have proven he quite capable. In the books, its one way. In the show, its largely the same with an extra wrinkle. I don't see why people complain about stuff like that. If the show killed a major character that didn't die in the books or if they completely changed loyalties or motivations (make something random up like say Varys poisoned Joeffrey), then yes. That's understandable. That's a drastic change. Most everything to me just seems minor.

 

[chf]

Not to a huge degree, no. But they have made a couple changes that really annoyed me. And Martin does consult, but doesn't micro manage.

As a for instance, one of the changes, maybe even the only change that I'm still upset about is the Gilly and Sam love story. Screwing her is a tiny little change, and doesn't change much about the whole story at all. But it completely changes Sam's character from the way he was written. Instead of being kind of a redemption story about Sam Tarly being disowned and sent to the wall to die, he comes to the wall and dedicates himself to something greater than himself. If he follows the rules of the nightswatch, then getting Jon Snow elected was the right thing to do. Protecting Gilly was the noble thing to do. Standing up to other brothers of the nightscwatch was in essence him becoming a Lord in spite of his father, albeit without the title. It's his coming of age moment, the high point of his redemption. It makes him a character you are forced to like and root for. Instead of all that, he protected Gilly because she had some tits and he wanted to get his dick wet. He stood toe to toe and fought his fellow nights watch, not for the greater good, but because he wanted to bang her first. It was him breaking his vows as a sworn brother and putting himself before the team. Pure selfishness, and it calls everything he's ever done into question. Did he almost single handedly help get Jon elected because he believed he was the best man to lead them? Or just because it was his friend? Just by sleeping with her they took away everything good he had ever done, and basically made him into everything most people hate in a person.

And why did they make that stupid little change? Not because it worked better on screen this way. Not because they needed filler. Not because it was too expensive to film it. But because some asshole somewhere said "We need some sort of love story or women won't watch this." THAT is when I get upset about changes, when the change is needless and takes away from the story.

Wow.

I think you're reading waaaay too much into it. Sam as Mr. love em' and leave em? Nahhh. He's just as sympathetic, and he's even a bit more sympathetic, because he let himself do that.

I mean Jon did the same with Ygritte.

Sam getting his 'dick wet,' doesn't mean he can't be redeemed.

With all the flawed characters in the novels, I'm thinking that they're just moving up the Sam/Gilly moment in the books anyway. We'll see I guess.

 

[chf]

Sam doesn't even make my top 5 as far as stupid BS the show runners have changed just because they think their shit don't stink. For instance:

-Jaime and Bronn going to Dorne was a clusterfuck that made no sense.
-Instead of Sansa starting to become a player like in the books, she's just a constant victim as before.
-Everything goes right for Brienne of Tarth. Starting to get annoying how she's always in the right place at the right time. ( Stumbling upon Arya and Sansa out of dumb luck, stumbling upon Stannis, etc. )
- Stannis, who is widely renowned for being one of the best military commanders in the world, marches right up to Winterfell with 200 guys who aren't in formation. No. Just no.
-I could go on for awhile about what they're doing with the Greyjoys and Boltons but it's not worth the time.

I'll give them this though, Hardhome was awesome. That change was necessary and was overall very well done.

Where in the books (so far) is Sansa a 'player?' If anything they've given her waaaay more agency.

And all the rest can be chalked up to time. 1 page a minute is the rule. How many pages is each book. Do the math. They HAVE to change major shvt. No choice. There's no TIME to let many scenes with Brienne getting from here to there play out, or for the Greyjoys to do much of anything. It's all about the time.

They've cut stuff down, and yet managed to stay true to the overall tenor and tone of the novels.

Nobody is trying to out-write GRRM. They're trying to adapt his doorstop books and lack of an editor for the screen. Not an easy task. They deserve applause, not jeers.

 

[SFGRTB]

I try not to compare the books and show too in depth. Obviously, there wouldn't be a show without the source material, but I enjoy the show for the show, and the books for the books.

And I think they are both fantastic.

There is so much going on this season. I'm honestly not sure we'll see Jon Snow until Ep. 7 or so, while the rest of the World catches up. Sounds like we're going back to the Iron Islands! We still have Trial of the Faith. Then the whole North is going to be insane. We'll probably see Dany crossing the Narrow Sea in Ep. 10, parallel to a climactic event in the North. Are we finally going to see a certain lady?

As for the Book, I can't wait to find out what happens to Jaime. The North will be in all-out warfare, with the Battle of Winterfell, the Wall likely in open battle between wildlings and black brothers, and whatever the hell the Others are going to do. Doran has his pieces in place to make a move, possibly with Young Griff?! Who's going to control the Vale? Whatever the show does won't ruin those things.

Can't wait until April 24th. Can't wait till Winds of Winter.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Where in the books (so far) is Sansa a 'player?' If anything they've given her waaaay more agency.

And all the rest can be chalked up to time. 1 page a minute is the rule. How many pages is each book. Do the math. They HAVE to change major shvt. No choice. There's no TIME to let many scenes with Brienne getting from here to there play out, or for the Greyjoys to do much of anything. It's all about the time.

They've cut stuff down, and yet managed to stay true to the overall tenor and tone of the novels.

Nobody is trying to out-write GRRM. They're trying to adapt his doorstop books and lack of an editor for the screen. Not an easy task. They deserve applause, not jeers.

Sansa started to wise up towards the end of the last book and during the one or two Winds of Winter preview chapters. That's more or less what I'm referring to.

Anyway I actually thought that the show did a really good job of changing what was necessary for the first three seasons. Four they started to take some weird turns but it was overall still alright. This last season though? It was just laughable in some instances and I really don't think time has anything to do with it. Most of the issues I've had aren't due to them condensing the story. It's more of them replacing what seemed like important storylines in the books with useless garbage. Cut out the pointless filler like (just some examples) the Grey Worm/Missandei thing, the Asha Greyjoy/Ramsay encounter which was ultimately pointless, and characters like Olly who are just terrible and you'd have the time you need to tell the parts of the story that matter.

I don't know man, I just feel like the writing has gotten noticeably worse ever since they started deviating more and more from the established story. I mean.....just look at this:


Somebody got paid to write that.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

And just for the record, I will recant every complaint I have had about the show if in season six there is full episode where a giant ties Olly to the ground and then just shits down his throat for an hour straight.

By the way, Olly is a stupid-ass name.

 

[flyerhawk]

Anyway I actually thought that the show did a really good job of changing what was necessary for the first three seasons. Four they started to take some weird turns but it was overall still alright. This last season though? It was just laughable in some instances and I really don't think time has anything to do with it. Most of the issues I've had aren't due to them condensing the story. It's more of them replacing what seemed like important storylines in the books with useless garbage. Cut out the pointless filler like (just some examples) the Grey Worm/Missandei thing, the Asha Greyjoy/Ramsay encounter which was ultimately pointless, and characters like Olly who are just terrible and you'd have the time you need to tell the parts of the story that matter.

The Asha/Ramsay encounter was important for a few reasons. It keeps Asha somewhat relevant. It makes clear that Theon has become Reek. And gives a good reason why the Ironborn will really hate the Boltons.

Sometimes you have to change things simply because a story has very little screen time.

 

[chf]

Sansa started to wise up towards the end of the last book and during the one or two Winds of Winter preview chapters. That's more or less what I'm referring to.

Anyway I actually thought that the show did a really good job of changing what was necessary for the first three seasons. Four they started to take some weird turns but it was overall still alright. This last season though? It was just laughable in some instances and I really don't think time has anything to do with it. Most of the issues I've had aren't due to them condensing the story. It's more of them replacing what seemed like important storylines in the books with useless garbage. Cut out the pointless filler like (just some examples) the Grey Worm/Missandei thing, the Asha Greyjoy/Ramsay encounter which was ultimately pointless, and characters like Olly who are just terrible and you'd have the time you need to tell the parts of the story that matter.

I don't know man, I just feel like the writing has gotten noticeably worse ever since they started deviating more and more from the established story. I mean.....just look at this:


Somebody got paid to write that.

Meh. As someone already mentioned, one can enjoy the books (some of my favorites ever) and the show each on their own.

Again, this all boils down to time. You have entire long chapters played out in the books where the Dornish women are portrayed as more sexually free than their Westerosi sisters. There's no TIME to do that in the show. So you get a few scenes (the prison scene, the one you link to above) where they get to try to condense all that down. Is it perfect? No. It's a fools task to take thousands and thousands of words and condense them into 150 words or so.

But c'mon, don't BS a BS'er.

GRRM himself writes some pretty iffy descriptions when it comes to sex.

Let's revisit the thick tangled Myrrish swamp shall we?

Or this one?

She was sopping wet when he entered her. “Damn you,” she said. “Damn you damn you damn you.” He sucked her nipples till she cried out half in pain and half in pleasure. Her **** became the world.

Or the fat pink masts, or the endless chocolate nipple descriptions, or Tyrion's twisted purple smaller veiny head or, or , or (examples are legion)

GRRM, (much as I love him) got paid to write those.

So in fact, the show writers are paying homage to Georgie with that line, it's something he'd write.

 

[Chef99]

Cut out the pointless filler like (just some examples) the Grey Worm/Missandei thing

This, I think, is a perfect example of giving a nod to the female audience. Not necessarily a bad thing, just one of those "it is what it is" kinda deals.

 

[wildturkey]

The Asha/Ramsay encounter was important for a few reasons. It keeps Asha somewhat relevant. It makes clear that Theon has become Reek. And gives a good reason why the Ironborn will really hate the Boltons.

Sometimes you have to change things simply because a story has very little screen time.

Not to mention it keeps Greyjoy/Bolton storyline relevant. Due to time restraints and book restraints (with Martin's writing schedule), the show decided to push most all of the Iron Islands stuff to Season 6. And not only that, they've condensed several characters to keep a cleaner narrative for TV. You're spot on with the Asha/Ramsay stuff. It's there to let you know there's still bad blood simmering here and there's more to come.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

The Asha/Ramsay encounter was important for a few reasons. It keeps Asha somewhat relevant. It makes clear that Theon has become Reek. And gives a good reason why the Ironborn will really hate the Boltons.

Sometimes you have to change things simply because a story has very little screen time.

I'm pretty sure cutting off Theon's dick and mailing it to his dad already did that. I'm not saying that showing Asha wasn't necessary. They built that up as a huge thing at the end of season 3. But the payoff was a 10 minute scene where the Ironborn run in, Ramsay takes his shirt off, and then they're just out with no explanation. It was really a waste of time. They might as well have done nothing. I'm not sure why they needed to keep her relevant either since the show has no problem bringing back characters who haven't had screen time for over a season ( see Barristan Selmy and Beric Dondarrion. Oh and they'll probably do it with Rickon this season). The Theon/Reek thing...maybe. They spent so much time hammering that home with stuff like the shaving scene that I just don't think it really would have mattered in the end.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Meh. As someone already mentioned, one can enjoy the books (some of my favorites ever) and the show each on their own.

I get that. I do. I'm not saying that I dislike the changes just because they are changes. The Jorah/Jon Connington change made sense even if it basically gives away that the Young Gryff storyline is a dead end. The Hardhome change, like I said, was good. Most of the issues I have are due to plot holes or just bad writing, at least in my opinion. I'd still be questioning this stuff if Game of Thrones were an original show not based on books.

It doesn't have to be perfect, there was stuff I didn't like in the first three seasons too. There was just much, much less of it. That's partly why I don't buy the time excuse. They condensed stuff pretty well early on, but to me it seems like as they deviate more and more the writing just gets more and more ridiculous.

 

[chf]

This, I think, is a perfect example of giving a nod to the female audience. Not necessarily a bad thing, just one of those "it is what it is" kinda deals.

Right, it's like LOTR or The Hobbit, the Jacksons adding some female characters.

The wimmenz watch TV nowadays.