Game of Thrones

[Cave_Johnson]

Exactly... this wedding night 'bedding' scene was one of the mildest r*pe scenes I have ever scene on film. It was very short in duration, and the camera was fixed on Reeks face during the opening moments of the deed immediately after the back of Sansa's outfit was ripped open... and then...fade to black. Hardly disturbing.

I really have to scratch my head and wonder about folks who claim it was a difficult scene to watch... because it wasn't. It's all implied 'in your head'... so it might be disturbing for some folks to picture it in their heads, but it certainly wasn't violently depicted on film for the audience to see.

It's fascinating how our imaginations work, and how strong the power of suggestion is... go back and watch the scene again, but this time, mute the sound...you will be amazed at how mild the scene actually is!

I'm glad the makers decided to do the scene this way (implied violence, rather than actually showing violence), because some of the stuff previously shown in this program over the years has been fairly gratuitous in nature, and sometimes unnecessary IMO.

Bravo... this wedding night 'bedding' scene was produced correctly IMO... in a relatively mild manner.

It wasn't just difficult to watch because it was a r*pe scene. It was difficult to watch because it was forced, poorly written and on top of that it was a r*pe scene. The scenes with Danny and Drogo from season one were similar in nature and I had no issue with them. They made sense within the context of the show. But they've been trying to make Sansa into this strong player all season as evidenced by the bath scene. Right after that we get this goofy-ass fight in Dorne and we come back to Sansa getting raped. It just didn't seem to fit at all. Perhaps cringeworthy was a better word for that scene and really the entire episode.

 

[juliansteed]

I'm not even sure it would be considered r*pe. She clearly wasn't enjoying it but she wasn't actively trying to stop it either. It was their wedding night and she probably just accepted that it would have to happen. She was reluctantly preparing to bang Tyrion on their wedding night too until he told her to stop.

I can only guess that what must have disturbed most viewers was that Theon was forced to watch, and that it was "sweet little Sansa" finally being deflowered in a scenario that probably wasn't how she fantasized it. After breathing a sigh of relief when her engagement to Joffrey was broken (which originally excited her), she briefly gets engaged/promised to Loras Tyrell (whom she didn't realize was gay), is forced to marry Tyrion, is promised to her younger Asperger's cousin Robin, but in the end it's the psycho Ramsay that takes her virginity.

 

[Innermind]

I'm not even sure it would be considered r*pe. She clearly wasn't enjoying it but she wasn't actively trying to stop it either. It was their wedding night and she probably just accepted that it would have to happen. She was reluctantly preparing to bang Tyrion on their wedding night too until he told her to stop.

I can only guess that what must have disturbed most viewers was that Theon was forced to watch, and that it was "sweet little Sansa" finally being deflowered in a scenario that probably wasn't how she fantasized it. After breathing a sigh of relief when her engagement to Joffrey was broken (which originally excited her), she briefly gets engaged/promised to Loras Tyrell (whom she didn't realize was gay), is forced to marry Tyrion, is promised to her younger Asperger's cousin Robin, but in the end it's the psycho Ramsay that takes her virginity.

A lot of fans are in an uproar over the scene, including a US Senator! Author GRRM actually wrote a blog response to the disgruntled fans.

U.S. Senator: I'm Boycotting "Disgusting" Game of Thrones - seattlepi.com

As I mentioned in my previous post, the scene was actually portrayed relatively mildly. Apparently much of the uproar is coming from the book readers. It appears that many readers are getting in a tizzy about the TV show deviating from the books. GRRM stated in his response blog that the show is intended to stand on its own. Apparently some book fans just can't handle the deviation.

I particularly liked when Sansa stood up to Miranda in the bath scene, and am looking forward to perhaps seeing Sansa grow and develop into a much stronger and integral character in the TV show... IF that happens, I'm sure book readers will be pissed-off at the thought of Sansa becoming strong and perhaps even transitioning into a major player in the storyline.

Of course with supposedly at least two more novels to come, perhaps GRRM always had plans for Sansa to become a strong and integral character? One might figure that after years of being victimized, Sansa may eventually be forged into a badass... the hotter the fire, the stronger the steel. Additionally, the willingness of northerners to support Sansa (the recent references this season to 'the north remembers'), along with the presence of Brienne in the area, has me thinking that Sansa & fellow northerners & Brienne (and perhaps even Theon) may possibly unite and shake things up?

We shall see.


Things that bothered me about this last episode were how easily Jamie & Bronn were able to waltz into the garden area, and then the ensuing battle with the fast & choppy editing which made the fight difficult to follow/watch. Also, even though I enjoyed the touch of the snow flurries during Sansa's wedding ceremony to remind the viewers that Winter is finally here... I found it kinda weird not seeing any breath emanating from the actors mouths during the cold environment wedding ceremony! It's strange how something so minor as lack of warm breath can distract me from becoming immersed in the episode.

 

[juliansteed]

A lot of fans are in an uproar over the scene, including a US Senator! Author GRRM actually wrote a blog response to the disgruntled fans.

U.S. Senator: I'm Boycotting "Disgusting" Game of Thrones - seattlepi.com

As I mentioned in my previous post, the scene was actually portrayed relatively mildly. Apparently much of the uproar is coming from the book readers. It appears that many readers are getting in a tizzy about the TV show deviating from the books. GRRM stated in his response blog that the show is intended to stand on its own. Apparently some book fans just can't handle the deviation.

I particularly liked when Sansa stood up to Miranda in the bath scene, and am looking forward to perhaps seeing Sansa grow and develop into a much stronger and integral character in the TV show... IF that happens, I'm sure book readers will be pissed-off at the thought of Sansa becoming strong and perhaps even transitioning into a major player in the storyline.

Of course with supposedly at least two more novels to come, perhaps GRRM always had plans for Sansa to become a strong and integral character? One might figure that after years of being victimized, Sansa may eventually be forged into a badass... the hotter the fire, the stronger the steel. Additionally, the willingness of northerners to support Sansa (the recent references this season to 'the north remembers'), along with the presence of Brienne in the area, has me thinking that Sansa & fellow northerners & Brienne (and perhaps even Theon) may possibly unite and shake things up?

We shall see.


Things that bothered me about this last episode were how easily Jamie & Bronn were able to waltz into the garden area, and then the ensuing battle with the fast & choppy editing which made the fight difficult to follow/watch. Also, even though I enjoyed the touch of the snow flurries during Sansa's wedding ceremony to remind the viewers that Winter is finally here... I found it kinda weird not seeing any breath emanating from the actors mouths during the cold environment wedding ceremony! It's strange how something so minor as lack of warm breath can distract me from becoming immersed in the episode.

So ince$t, killing babies and children were okay with this senator but the semi-r*pe on a wedding night in a medieval setting by the currently most despised character (a product of r*pe himself) is where he draws the line?

Not sure why so many other book readers have such a hard time accepting the changes. I mean I'm sure we all are disappointed with the occasional change or exclusion, but some complain about every single change. Of all the characters Tyrion meets in Essos I was most looking forward to seeing Penny. Now that seems unlikely to happen unless events are in another order but that's fine. I really like Sansa, a character the viewers are more familiar with and whose already been passed around, marrying Ramsay instead of Jeyne. I also love that Littlefinger arranged it. And Sansa standing upto Miranda is one thing, but standing up to Ramsay by not consummating their marriage on their wedding night would be something else entirely. Another change I wouldn't mind seeing would be for Brienne and Poderick to somehow meet up with Osha and Rickon and relaying this info to Sansa in Winterfell.

 

[juliansteed]

Double post.

 

[Innermind]

Ramsay on his wedding night:

 

[Edonidd]

I actually do have a problem with the changes they have made from the books recently. IMO there are four different reasons to make changes from books to movies/TV.

#1 for cost savings. Things like skipping the tournaments and lots of the battles in earlier seasons were skipped or cut down for this reason, and I didn't really have a problem with it.

#2 for narrative purposes. If for instance the only thing happening in a scene from the books is us seeing what he/she was thinking, they have to make changes in order for the actor to say it out loud to somebodyor otherwise communicate it to the audience. Like Ned's flashbacks wouldn't have fit into this show, and there was no real other way to do them besides a flashback.

#3 kind of a catch-all for any other changes that need to be made because you can't show them on screen. Minors having sex, working with animals, big name actors or actresses being kept around to play minor roles, etc.

#4 because the show writer thinks they can tell a better story than the original. This is the kind of thing that had killed 100 book to movie transitions in the past. It's the reason Enders Game, an absolute favorite of many people I personally know, came to be a movie that absolutely sucked ass. There are millions of books written every year. Tens of thousands even get published. Hundreds make it to mass market book stores. One or two stand out every year. Out of those one or two best of the year books, every decade maybe one book comes along that stands out from everything else as a real classic. An all time great. And then some screenwriter comes along and makes changes because they know what people like, their way will work better, audiences need certain things in movies, etc.

It just seems to me the changes they are making this season are for reason #4 instead of 1 or 2. And I will never approve of that.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I actually do have a problem with the changes they have made from the books recently. IMO there are four different reasons to make changes from books to movies/TV.

#1 for cost savings. Things like skipping the tournaments and lots of the battles in earlier seasons were skipped or cut down for this reason, and I didn't really have a problem with it.

#2 for narrative purposes. If for instance the only thing happening in a scene from the books is us seeing what he/she was thinking, they have to make changes in order for the actor to say it out loud to somebodyor otherwise communicate it to the audience. Like Ned's flashbacks wouldn't have fit into this show, and there was no real other way to do them besides a flashback.

#3 kind of a catch-all for any other changes that need to be made because you can't show them on screen. Minors having sex, working with animals, big name actors or actresses being kept around to play minor roles, etc.

#4 because the show writer thinks they can tell a better story than the original. This is the kind of thing that had killed 100 book to movie transitions in the past. It's the reason Enders Game, an absolute favorite of many people I personally know, came to be a movie that absolutely sucked ass. There are millions of books written every year. Tens of thousands even get published. Hundreds make it to mass market book stores. One or two stand out every year. Out of those one or two best of the year books, every decade maybe one book comes along that stands out from everything else as a real classic. An all time great. And then some screenwriter comes along and makes changes because they know what people like, their way will work better, audiences need certain things in movies, etc.

It just seems to me the changes they are making this season are for reason #4 instead of 1 or 2. And I will never approve of that.

Exactly this. The writers/showrunners have George Lucas syndrome. They don't think they can do wrong. The first three seasons of the show were good because they were taken directly from George Martin's brilliantly written novels. As they have deviated more and more things have started to make less and less sense and at this point the story lines that have surpassed the book are just getting ridiculous. Deviating from the books is not necessarily the problem, it's just that these particular changes are, for lack of a better word, really poopy.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

#1 for cost savings. Things like skipping the tournaments and lots of the battles in earlier seasons were skipped or cut down for this reason, and I didn't really have a problem with it.

For that reason alone, Vikings on the History Channel has made waves that rival the GoT show. Vikings may not have the great actors or narratives (still good, but not great), but it sure knows how to give the viewers what they want. Action, action, and more action.

 

[Cobrabit]

I wouldn't be so harsh on the TV show as they do know Martin's end game and have received his blessing for how they're running the show. Like he said, the two should be able to stand alone with an overall similar 'spine' even if there are several changes from the books. There is absolutely no way to stay true to everything in the books with essentially 10 hours of show in a season, especially when the show is starting to get ahead of the currently released books. Many of these changes probably do not have anything to do with Martin's end game and may have even been some of his ideas he considered before final edits to the books.

I love the books and I really enjoy the show. Once both series are completed, I will most likely buy a collectors set of each including nicely bound books.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

For that reason alone, Vikings on the History Channel has made waves that rival the GoT show. Vikings may not have the great actors or narratives (still good, but not great), but it sure knows how to give the viewers what they want. Action, action, and more action.

I agree but I'd also add that it has great writing, we see both sides (King Ecbert and Ragnar) draw inspiration and knowledge from other religions (Pagan Gods and Christian God). The contrast between the two is fascinating. I'm a huge fan of writing that makes you think and Vikings certainly does that. GoT has done it in the past but this season doesn't seem to have too much of that.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Oh and Bronn is pretty much dead now. No way that blade that got him wasn't poisoned.

Ahh shit. I didn't even think of that. but that is exactly what her dad did with the Mountain.

Crap there goes another character I liked. I am about out of characters to give a crap about

 

[jakedog56]

The Mountain will return at some point. I doubt the Bronn is going to fade quietly into the night.

The fight scene between Jamie and Bronn against the girls did seem pretty lame. however the girls were supposably way more bad-ass then the no-names on horseback a few episodes ago so I don't have too much of an issue with it.

My biggest problem is that Jamie is so lame with his fake hand. He actually realized that it could be used as a weapon of sorts when he caught the guys sword. He should be using it as a shield/battering ram at every chance he gets. I don't get why that is such a tough concept. If it was me in his shoes and I was as experienced of a fighter as he was I would have immediately started using it to what advantage that I could. It could certainly surprise people and take them off guard, even if they know the hand is fake.

As far as the Sansa r*pe thing, I think that the reaction is really overblown. It is just a story, and should we just pretend that bad things never happened to women in (the equivilant to) medival times?? I have never read the books (yet) but apparently the thought is that she will take her mother's role for them and rise up and be a bad-ass revenge seeker at some point. This is just one more bullet in the chamber for her when she does start "returning the favors" on those that have done her and her family wrong.

Ridiculous that everyone makes a big deal out of that when the guy standing there watching had his finger flayed to the bone and his tally-wacker chopped off. Where were the protests when something much more horrible happened to Reek (I know that he was a "bad guy" at the time but still)??

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Ridiculous that everyone makes a big deal out of that when the guy standing there watching had his finger flayed to the bone and his tally-wacker chopped off. Where were the protests when something much more horrible happened to Reek (I know that he was a "bad guy" at the time but still)??

Interesting that you bring that up because that particular scene illustrates another problem that I've had with the writers of the show. In the books you don't hear from Theon for awhile and then at some point after all the torture you see stuff from his point of view. At this point you realize he was tortured and it is subtlety hinted at that maybe he doesn't have a dick. Of course the show turned that into 3 episodes of torture **** and Ramsay mailing Theon's dick to his dad.

Similarly in the books it is barely implied that maybe Renly and Loras are gay. The show turned that into multiple gay sex scenes.

Weird pointless changes like that were few and far between in the first three seasons but since then they've become way too common. And after how bad that last episode was the last scene was the r*pe that broke the camel's back for me. It's like the 1984 Dune film all over again.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

My primary issue with the current season so far is that it's fucking boring.

Could it be?...

 

[Edonidd]

Interesting that you bring that up because that particular scene illustrates another problem that I've had with the writers of the show. In the books you don't hear from Theon for awhile and then at some point after all the torture you see stuff from his point of view. At this point you realize he was tortured and it is subtlety hinted at that maybe he doesn't have a dick. Of course the show turned that into 3 episodes of torture **** and Ramsay mailing Theon's dick to his dad.

Similarly in the books it is barely implied that maybe Renly and Loras are gay. The show turned that into multiple gay sex scenes.

Weird pointless changes like that were few and far between in the first three seasons but since then they've become way too common. And after how bad that last episode was the last scene was the r*pe that broke the camel's back for me. It's like the 1984 Dune film all over again.

I guess it's time for me to reread the books, but I don't think it was subtlety hinted at anything with Theon. The way I remembered it, he was definitely missing several fingers, most if not all of his teeth, and for sure his dick was gone. He may have even been misding an eye or ears too, i dont remember. I understand they can't do that for a TV show, similarly to how they couldn't disfigure Tyrion as much as he was in the books. But for me, if I hadn't read the books, I'm not sure Theon's character would work for me at all. People don't break that completely with what the show has done to him. The books though, yes it is believable that he is mentally broken.

I'm just not sure what they could have done differently.

 

[RegentDenali]

GOT has become one of those water cooler shows where people pretend to be outraged in the press or social media to get a attention fix.

And we're talking about George Martin and GOT. As if the watchers of this show haven't learned yet that nobody is safe and life sucks. In the real world, bad things happen to good people all the time. I think people get so brainwashed by how Hollywood most of the time has the Heroes win in the end, they forget that's not how it is in the real world. Many times, the assholes are the ones who succeed and the good people get fucked over constantly throughout their existence.

 

[jakedog56]

GOT has become one of those water cooler shows where people pretend to be outraged in the press or social media to get a attention fix.

And we're talking about George Martin and GOT. As if the watchers of this show haven't learned yet that nobody is safe and life sucks. In the real world, bad things happen to good people all the time. I think people get so brainwashed by how Hollywood most of the time has the Heroes win in the end, they forget that's not how it is in the real world. Many times, the assholes are the ones who succeed and the good people get fucked over constantly throughout their existence.

Since I have not read the books, I think that it is helping me to enjoy the show more. I am not getting hung up on any changes or having any specific expectations except for what I perceive.

I totally agree on the no one being safe and good things happening to bad people. That is what makes the show great and rather groundbreaking. Usually there is so much invested in the characters in series that it is a big deal if they kill some off, but with GOT you never know what is coming and who is going to get it.

If they just kept the standard good guys win-people are nice-good things happen crap we would just have had another Once Upon a Time or some other shit my wife would like. I for one toast the bad things that have happened and look forward to some more unspeakably bad things to happen real soon!

 

[RegentDenali]

Since I have not read the books, I think that it is helping me to enjoy the show more. I am not getting hung up on any changes or having any specific expectations except for what I perceive.

I totally agree on the no one being safe and good things happening to bad people. That is what makes the show great and rather groundbreaking. Usually there is so much invested in the characters in series that it is a big deal if they kill some off, but with GOT you never know what is coming and who is going to get it.

If they just kept the standard good guys win-people are nice-good things happen crap we would just have had another Once Upon a Time or some other shit my wife would like. I for one toast the bad things that have happened and look forward to some more unspeakably bad things to happen real soon!

Agreed. GOT is a dose of reality in a sea of unreality from the entertainment industry. It's a dose of real life. What makes it special and very watchable.

How many times as men do we daily deal with being Tyrion thinking the battle has been won to then see a horde arrive from another angle and you just stare into the abyss of swords coming your way saying "oh fuck me..." as your about to get bent over by life.

I also got to love that scene where Tyrion just sits there looking stunned as he sees a dragon fly over his head for the first time in his life. That was one of those humbling moments that GOT excells at displaying.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I have a question & maybe its been asked & answered, but I am not going back to the beginning of this thread & go through it all to find out.
How exactly with all his seemingly mystical powers, did the faceless man get captured back when she released him from the cage?