Game of Thrones

[Schmoopy1000]

And he gets taken out by a bunch of former slave masters.

Well now everyone knows where the rumors started as this was the last of the leaked episodes. I think Selmy is a goner but not Grey Worm.

I was disappointed that so many unsullied were killed by the 1st guy that got to them. I understand overwhelming #'s but they made them look like simple brigands in matching uniforms in this episode.
I am not too sure he is dead. Think he might live on, otherwise why have Greyworm save him from having his throat slit.

 

[Innermind]

except it wasn't r*pe.

Yup.

I'm just going by what Littlefinger told Sansa (and the TV audience) in the catacomb scene last night... he said it was r*pe. And of course, the nasty crime of kidnap & r*pe is a much better justification for starting a rebellion than two lovers hooking-up. The Baratheon's & Lannister's & company won the rebellion, so they get to write the history of the background of the usurping by calling it kidnapping and r*pe, and painting the Targaryens in a bad light (history is written by the winners).

I would imagine most folks can figure out the attraction between Rhaegar and Lyanna was certainly not a violent criminal act, and was very likely mutual attraction.

If/when the Targaryens eventually do get the throne back, I'm sure they will re-write history to make sure it is known that Robert Baratheon was a dis-loyal womanizer with lots of bastard children being born from his sexual exploits. And that Lyanna and Rhaegar were mutual lovers. Of course, the big loser in both versions of this history is poor Elia Martell and her two Targaryen kids.

If the Targaryens do eventually regain the throne, I would guess the Targaryen history writers may even possibly lay the blame of Rhaegar's hooking-up with Lyanna as Elia Martell's fault of 'driving' Rhaegar away by supposedly not being a good wife (making up some dirt about Elia).

 

[Tharvot]

I was disappointed that so many unsullied were killed by the 1st guy that got to them. I understand overwhelming #'s but they made them look like simple brigands in matching uniforms in this episode.
I am not too sure he is dead. Think he might live on, otherwise why have Greyworm save him from having his throat slit.

The show hadn't really touched on it much, but the unsullied aren't great city watchmen. For one, their fighting prowess mostly stems from their training to fight as a cohesive unit. They are very dangerous in an open war field where all their spears and shields act as one. In close quarters, spears aren't ideal weapons and The Unsullied aren't a great fighting force for that kind of action...swords or even knives are better weapons.

I was shocked when Barristan went down, but at least he cut his way through a number of people and went down fighting.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

And he gets taken out by a bunch of former slave masters.

Well now everyone knows where the rumors started as this was the last of the leaked episodes. I think Selmy is a goner but not Grey Worm.

It only makes sense right? Barristan's character actually matters so they kill him off. But you know the showrunners have to meet their quota of at least 5 pointless scenes with Greyworm the dickless trying to bang Missandei so he has to stay.

Pointless seemed to be the theme of that whole episode. Absolutely no reason for that whole last 10 minutes other than they felt someone needed to die. And to think, they cut out the whole Iron Islands plot for......this.

 

[Tharvot]

It only makes sense right? Barristan's character actually matters so they kill him off. But you know the showrunners have to meet their quota of at least 5 pointless scenes with Greyworm the dickless trying to bang Missandei so he has to stay.

Pointless seemed to be the theme of that whole episode. Absolutely no reason for that whole last 10 minutes other than they felt someone needed to die. And to think, they cut out the whole Iron Islands plot for......this.

I, for one, am not missing the Iron Islands plot...though I do like Asha Greyjoy quite a bit in the books. Yara Greyjoy in the show.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I, for one, am not missing the Iron Islands plot...though I do like Asha Greyjoy quite a bit in the books. Yara Greyjoy in the show.

I really feel like Euron and Victarion have a big part to play in the end game so I'm not sure why this is being skipped over.

It'd be one thing if the show just cut this out completely but at the end of Season 3 they made a big deal about Asha coming to save Theon and Stannis naming Balon as a usurper. Then Asha goes in with all her "best" men and ends up getting corner by 3 dudes plus a shirtless Ramsay. And I guess Ramsay just let them go? I don't know, it's never explained how they get out. Anyway, why make a big deal about all that and then proceed to mention the Ironborn for 10 minutes the next season and never speak of them again? The Ironborn still control a bunch of shit in the North, but we have absolutely no mention of that or Balon.

 

[Tharvot]

I really feel like Euron and Victarion have a big part to play in the end game so I'm not sure why this is being skipped over.

It'd be one thing if the show just cut this out completely but at the end of Season 3 they made a big deal about Asha coming to save Theon and Stannis naming Balon as a usurper. Then Asha goes in with all her "best" men and ends up getting corner by 3 dudes plus a shirtless Ramsay. And I guess Ramsay just let them go? I don't know, it's never explained how they get out. Anyway, why make a big deal bout all that and then have a 10 minute payoff the next season and then never speak of it again? The Ironborn still control a bunch of shit in the North, but we have absolutely no mention of that or Balon.

Apparently not. The showrunners know the general storyline and the end GRRM has in mind. I'm completely OK with the show leaving somethings out, even if they are of some importance. This way, even when the show completes before GRRM has completed the series, its not completely ruined for book readers. The showrunners may have skipped over the Greyjoys simply because its just too many characters to introduce in one season if they are also introducing the Dornish characters. Might touch on them next season.

To me, Euron is kind of a badass and Victarion is basically only around because his fleet of ships are ultimately what will help Dany and her army cross the seas to Westeros. Aside from those 2, Aeron is kind of a do nothing so far and we already know about Theon and Asha (Yara). Balon is already dead, though the show basically skipped over his death.

 

[Edonidd]

Yup.

I'm just going by what Littlefinger told Sansa (and the TV audience) in the catacomb scene last night... he said it was r*pe. And of course, the nasty crime of kidnap & r*pe is a much better justification for starting a rebellion than two lovers hooking-up. The Baratheon's & Lannister's & company won the rebellion, so they get to write the history of the background of the usurping by calling it kidnapping and r*pe, and painting the Targaryens in a bad light (history is written by the winners).

I would imagine most folks can figure out the attraction between Rhaegar and Lyanna was certainly not a violent criminal act, and was very likely mutual attraction.

If/when the Targaryens eventually do get the throne back, I'm sure they will re-write history to make sure it is known that Robert Baratheon was a dis-loyal womanizer with lots of bastard children being born from his sexual exploits. And that Lyanna and Rhaegar were mutual lovers. Of course, the big loser in both versions of this history is poor Elia Martell and her two Targaryen kids.

If the Targaryens do eventually regain the throne, I would guess the Targaryen history writers may even possibly lay the blame of Rhaegar's hooking-up with Lyanna as Elia Martell's fault of 'driving' Rhaegar away by supposedly not being a good wife (making up some dirt about Elia).

The Lannisters had very, very little to do with overthrowing the Targaryeans. Robert and Ned were both underage wards learning how to be men from Jon Arryn. Sure Robert was mad when Rhaegar took his betrothed, but that would have never started the war. But Ned's dad and older brother, who was in line to be Lord of Winterfell, went to Kings Landing to ask where she was and for her to be released to them. The Mad King tortured and killed both of them. That's what really started the war.

The Lannisters stayed loyal and never joined the rebellion. At the very end of the war Ned Stark marched on Kings Landing with all the armies of The North and the Riverlands (basically the same army Robb Stark had) and Lannister finally brought all his armies to KY just hours ahead of him. But The Lannisters then switched sides and tried to take all the credit. They had one of the biggest single armies due to not joining sooner, and control of the capital. But the Baratheons basically had everyone that Renly, the Martell's, and Stannis had for their armies. And the Vale is another one of the 7 kingdoms (like the Riverlands, The North, Drone, etc) and Jon Arryn had the Vale army still too. They basically didn't need the Lannisters at all, and would have won anyways even if they had stayed loyal. Basically Tywin was just like Roose Bolton or Walder Frey, chose the perfect time to backstab.

TL DR = Lannisters were always cunts.

 

[Edonidd]

Apparently not. The showrunners know the general storyline and the end GRRM has in mind. I'm completely OK with the show leaving somethings out, even if they are of some importance. This way, even when the show completes before GRRM has completed the series, its not completely ruined for book readers. The showrunners may have skipped over the Greyjoys simply because its just too many characters to introduce in one season if they are also introducing the Dornish characters. Might touch on them next season.

To me, Euron is kind of a badass and Victarion is basically only around because his fleet of ships are ultimately what will help Dany and her army cross the seas to Westeros. Aside from those 2, Aeron is kind of a do nothing so far and we already know about Theon and Asha (Yara). Balon is already dead, though the show basically skipped over his death.

I actually don't think she needs the ships. Her army is a bunch of mutilated slaves and a couple mercenary companies. She'll leave them a city, and ride one of her dragons over. She has 2 extra seats, and you know Tyrion is part of the bigger story, so he gets a seat too.

She has one more seat, but I'm not sure if anyone else gets to come with her. Maybe a long lost family member who hasn't been introduced yet, or maybe an old friend who would recognize his dad's sword. Assuming the dragons make it to the wall to fight the white walkers.

I doubt anyone else from her storyline ever reaches Westeros.

 

[Tharvot]

I actually don't think she needs the ships. Her army is a bunch of mutilated slaves and a couple mercenary companies. She'll leave them a city, and ride one of her dragons over. She has 2 extra seats, and you know Tyrion is part of the bigger story, so he gets a seat too.

She has one more seat, but I'm not sure if anyone else gets to come with her. Maybe a long lost family member who hasn't been introduced yet, or maybe an old friend who would recognize his dad's sword. Assuming the dragons make it to the wall to fight the white walkers.

I doubt anyone else from her storyline ever reaches Westeros.

She's gonna need that 10k or so fighting force of Unsullied...mutilated or no. If the show follows the books at all, she might be picking up some dudes on horses later on this season.

 

[Edonidd]

She's gonna need that 10k or so fighting force of Unsullied...mutilated or no. If the show follows the books at all, she might be picking up some dudes on horses later on this season.

Still not convinced. I think she comes with just the dragons but ends up with a pre-made army.

 

[juliansteed]

The show finally gives a bitclue as to who Jon's mother is.

Yeah in the books they give us almost all of that information a long time ago, and give several even more significant details. They also broke it up into much smaller pieces so it wasn't quite as obvious. And I don't know if they ever actually out and out stated that Lyanna was raped. They are/were so vague in the books about some things, I'm looking forward to see if there is any other big info dumps like this coming up.

A couple slight misconceptions that I think need to be pointed out. Lyanna was apparently a very strong willed girl, much more like Arya than Sansa. She and everyone else knew how Robert Baratheon was, and I think he already had bastards, or at least slept around a lot. Ned Stark at a couple points thinks back of his sister and how much she loved blue winters roses. Most people who think Jon is the result of Lyanna and Raegar 100% don't think it was r*pe.

Also I don't think Maester Aemon has any idea at all that Jon Snow is a fellow Targaryen. He votes for him because he's the best leader of men. Raised by Ned Stark, volunteered not forced to take the black, all of his peers and the other recruits who trained with him look up to him like a god. Old commander Mormont noticed his potential and named him his right hand man basically. The half hand instantly liked and trusted him. Even at the beginning Tyrion immediately took a liking to him.

Making Aemon feel some mystical family connection somehow cheapens it. It was intended to show the oldest and wisest one there, the one who was truly above all of the politics and who truly put his vow in the nights watch first. He chose Jon because Jon was the best man from the Nights Watch.

Not sure if last night's episode gives enough information that we should now be discussing this in this thread where not everyone has read the books. There have been some other small clues as well, since the very 1st episode. But I think only those who already know from reading the books, would recognize these clues at this point.

Anyway, since the cat is already out of the bag...

Sansa was actually the one who said she was raped so that's obviously the story she was told from her father who likely heard it from Robert. Littlefinger's reaction to her saying Rhaegar raped him can't be overlooked. His expression basically said "Oh? Is that what they told you?" It obviously implies that his understanding of the events is quite different, and that Lyanna chose Rhaegar over Robert just as Rhaegar chose Lyanna over his wife. So why is there a rumor going around that she was raped? Why not just leave it at kidnapped? Probably because she got pregnant.

That being said, I use to think that Robert could have been the father instead of Rhaegar. But at the time of the birth both they were both candidates so Ned couldn't take the chance in case the baby grew up to have silver hair. So he claimed him as his own bastard. By the time he grew to have "black of hair" it was too late to reveal the truth. Apparently that timeline doesn't work though and there is no way Robert could be the father, or so I've been told. The Stark genes are where he gets his dark features. The reason all of the other Targareyans had silver/blonde hair was because they were all inbred but that wouldn't apply in this case.

 

[Tharvot]

The show finally gives a bitclue as to who Jon's mother is.


Not sure if last night's episode gives enough information that we should now be discussing this in this thread where not everyone has read the books. There have been some other small clues as well, since the very 1st episode. But I think only those who already know from reading the books, would recognize these clues at this point.

Anyway, since the cat is already out of the bag...

Sansa was actually the one who said she was raped so that's obviously the story she was told from her father who likely heard it from Robert. Littlefinger's reaction to her saying Rhaegar raped him can't be overlooked. His expression basically said "Oh? Is that what they told you?" It obviously implies that his understanding of the events is quite different, and that Lyanna chose Rhaegar over Robert just as Rhaegar chose Lyanna over his wife. So why is there a rumor going around that she was raped? Why not just leave it at kidnapped? Probably because she got pregnant.

That being said, I use to think that Robert could have been the father instead of Rhaegar. But at the time of the birth both they were both candidates so Ned couldn't take the chance in case the baby grew up to have silver hair. So he claimed him as his own bastard. By the time he grew to have "black of hair" it was too late to reveal the truth. Apparently that timeline doesn't work though and there is no way Robert could be the father, or so I've been told. The Stark genes are where he gets his dark features. The reason all of the other Targareyans had silver/blonde hair was because they were all inbred but that wouldn't apply in this case.

I doubt show only viewers have picked up on all the clues. Hell, I didn't even though I read through the books...took going to a forum (I was seeing when the next book was scheduled...back in 2012 haha) for me to finally put it all together.

There are pretty clear differences in the stories Sansa apparently was told and what everyone else seems to think. Sir Jorah and Sir Barristan seem to have nothing but good things to say about Rhaegar as a person...doesn't exactly fit the mold of someone who would just kidnap and r*pe a girl. Littlefinger's quizzical look at Sansa when she says what she's been told. In the first season when Ned tries to evade Robert's questioning on who Jon's mother was. It all hints to "something isn't quite right there".

I'm sure we will get the big reveal in later seasons, but I like the way the show is kinda hinting at it too. The show can't (or just didn't want to) replicate all the hints the books give you, which are mostly through dream or vision sequences...but I like the way the show is still giving subtle clues.

 

[Tharvot]

Last sunday, 'Thrones' pulled in 6.82 million viewers, up slightly from the previous week. Next week we may see a spike in viewership as it's the first episode that wasn't hacked and released along with the premier. I'd expect ratings to jump back up to the 7 million viewer range again.

 

[night]

I, for one, am not missing the Iron Islands plot...though I do like Asha Greyjoy quite a bit in the books. Yara Greyjoy in the show.

I wish they would "forget" about Daenerys for a while. Definitely the worst part of the show so far IMO.

 

[Tharvot]

I wish they would "forget" about Daenerys for a while. Definitely the worst part of the show so far IMO.

Her entire storyline is pretty weak all throughout IMO. Her trump card are those fun fire breathing monsters she has. Things might get more interesting for her soon in the show if Jorah and Tyrion are on their way.

 

[Innermind]

Game of Thrones football helmets are pretty cool:

LOOK: Game of Thrones houses get NFL-style helmets - CBSSports.com


There are 9 helmets... I like House Bolton the best:

The dragon flame breath on the facemask of the House Targaryen helmet is cool too:

I'm surprised they didn't make a 10th helmet for House Arryn, featuring the Moon Door of the Eyrie on the helmet.

 

[juliansteed]

Game of Thrones football helmets are pretty cool:

LOOK: Game of Thrones houses get NFL-style helmets - CBSSports.com


There are 9 helmets... I like House Bolton the best:

The dragon flame breath on the facemask of the House Targaryen helmet is cool too:

I'm surprised they didn't make a 10th helmet for House Arryn, featuring the Moon Door of the Eyrie on the helmet.

Why the number 12 for House Tyrell? Does that have any meaning or are they just the only team to have player numbers appear there since there's otherwise not much there?

 

[night]

Her entire storyline is pretty weak all throughout IMO. Her trump card are those fun fire breathing monsters she has. Things might get more interesting for her soon in the show if Jorah and Tyrion are on their way.

Yea, it's pretty weak. Ever since she got The Unsullied she has just been dicking around. She still hasn't gotten a full army or a navy.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yea, it's pretty weak. Ever since she got The Unsullied she has just been dicking around. She still hasn't gotten a full army or a navy.