Game of Thrones

[OutlawImmortal]

Nice.

I'm sorry, a little person. Little baby?

 

[chf]

You're confusing suspension of disbelief with continuity.

I'm a huge fan of Sci-fi and fantasy so I'm chock full of SoD. You wanna put dragons in your book or movie? Fine put dragons in your movie. But if you put a dragon in your book or movie it can't be a unicorn half the time, well it could that's the beauty of Fantasy, it can be whatever you want. But in Fantasy and Sci-Fi more than any other genre continuity is of the utmost importance. In a world where the author can make up his own rules, if he doesn't then follow rules it's just bad writing and just all comes off as dues ex machina. And I hate that more than anything.

So I should apply more SOD to your Boll comparisons?

 

[chf]

I'm sorry, a little person. Little baby?

I wasn't being sarcastic!

I was tipping my cap at your joke.

 

[ill]

Good grief. They HAVE HIS NOTES, probably his entire ROUGH DRAFT, and they can get him on the fucking PHONE (which you've admitted).

Just stop.

you are basing this off absolutely nothing.

 

[ill]

I think it is entirely possible that only one of Dany/Jon/Tyrion are left standing on the last page. And just about every character below that is now fair game.

Ultimately SOMEONE will need to stand victorious as an ending with the Night King on the Iron Throne would be preposterous. But it could easily just be one of the Big 3 with hodge podge of the remaining characters.

what are the Vegas odds on this? I know there has got to be odds on this already.

 

[ill]

She'll give birth to Euron. Don't question it man, its a show about dragons after all.

he's like Randy fucking Orton

 

[chf]

you are basing this off absolutely nothing.

That should stand me in good stead in this thread.

 

[ill]

it was a joke. I doubt anybody major dies in the next episode since they need to come together to fight the army of the dead.

part of me has this image of them all lining up on the same side fighting the Wights like some kind of Avengers/Braveheart kind of thing, but that would be stupid.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

Good grief. They HAVE HIS NOTES, probably his entire ROUGH DRAFT, and they can get him on the fucking PHONE (which you've admitted).

Just stop.

Gotta agree with ill here.

I absolutely respect the fuck out of GRRM for the world he created. No, I have not read the books beyond about half of the first book at this point. But I have done lots of back reading and learned so much of the history and lore. It is so rich and amazing.

Beyond that.....I just seriously think GRRM has shown in public comments and interviews to be lacking of credibility. Opinion.....but it read pretty clear to me.

Read this the other day....about how it is easier for some creative types to create and expand, but much harder to recede and dilate. I've read enough of GRRM to really think that sounds like him. Even without a show pushing him I think these long waited books were going to be severely stalled, like they have been. I think either he hasn't a clue where to take it, or he can't decide on important parts. Maybe there are notes and some type of rough draft. However, if he is so uncertain where he is taking it why would he want to share that?

I guess it is fair to throw in a caveat (minor in my mind) that GRRM could just be viewing where the show takes it (they are pushing ahead bravely, and I respect that. But they are taking a lot of shine off the sword, so to speak). If it continues through the final episode the way much of this season has gone there will be a large audience of unsatisfied potential buyers for GRRM to finally release books 6 and 7 to.

Could GRRM be that sly? Well....thats certainly possible. But I still lean towards the credibility angle and him having nothing much on paper at this time.

 

[ill]

That should stand me in good stead in this thread.

you are basically saying "his name is under executive producer! He is involved!"

When in fact, he is no longer involved in the writing of the show. He shared where he thought the story should go and the writers are to get it there. Who knows if the books will be anything like the show at this point.

In the end, it is beyond stupid that they are running the show and writing the books in parallel, but that ship has already sailed. At least with TWD they haven't caught up with the source literature yet. With this, we have one set of writers going ahead of the source and the source author is staying away. Do you think he is going to be influenced by the show? He has 20 characters in his book that don't exist or have been killed already in the show. If he writes his books like the show is going, I would be so very disappointed.

 

[chf]

Gotta agree with ill here.

I absolutely respect the fuck out of GRRM for the world he created. No, I have not read the books beyond about half of the first book at this point. But I have done lots of back reading and learned so much of the history and lore. It is so rich and amazing.

Beyond that.....I just seriously think GRRM has shown in public comments and interviews to be lacking of credibility. Opinion.....but it read pretty clear to me.

Read this the other day....about how it is easier for some creative types to create and expand, but much harder to recede and dilate. I've read enough of GRRM to really think that sounds like him. Even without a show pushing him I think these long waited books were going to be severely stalled, like they have been. I think either he hasn't a clue where to take it, or he can't decide on important parts. Maybe there are notes and some type of rough draft. However, if he is so uncertain where he is taking it why would he want to share that?

I guess it is fair to throw in a caveat (minor in my mind) that GRRM could just be viewing where the show takes it (they are pushing ahead bravely, and I respect that. But they are taking a lot of shine off the sword, so to speak). If it continues through the final episode the way much of this season has gone there will be a large audience of unsatisfied potential buyers for GRRM to finally release books 6 and 7 to.

Could GRRM be that sly? Well....thats certainly possible. But I still lean towards the credibility angle and him having nothing much on paper at this time.

There's plenty written about how he writes (by him). He says he writes from an outline. He actually released his early EARLY notes of what he penned before he actually started the books, and while he ended up changing plenty, the broad strokes were still there.

You simply don't create that big of a roster of characters without an outline of where you're going.

<shrug>

Dunno why people have so much at stake for Benioff and Weiss being suddenly incompetent.

 

[chf]

Who knows if the books will be anything like the show at this point.

Well other than the actual statements made by Martin, sure.

 

[ill]

Well other than the actual statements made by Martin, sure.

show me the statements.

 

[chf]

In the end, it is beyond stupid that they are running the show and writing the books in parallel, but that ship has already sailed.

dunno what you even mean by that.

Do you think he is going to be influenced by the show? He has 20 characters in his book that don't exist or have been killed already in the show. If he writes his books like the show is going, I would be so very disappointed.

Who fucking knows if he's totally re-writing stuff. They've already said that the broad strokes are going to be the same. So I'm ASSUMING (see I even put it in caps, I don't KNOW for sure) that since Mance is alive in the books and dead in the show, that he'll die in the books too. So different path, same result.

Is he going to re-write a whole shit ton of stuff to make the more minor character of Bronn into the more major character of the TV show? I doubt it, but I don't know that.

He's got a million balls in the air, and he's gotta wind everything up. He's also a perfectionist, and because he's sold so many g-damn books, he's got the power to tell his publisher to get stuffed.

So we get the delays... after delays... upon MORE delays.

My personal opinion is that he's got the whole damn thing pretty much written, but he's trying to make it as perfect as he can.

 

[chf]

show me the statements.

Heh. Show me the statements to the contrary. I've already linked up enough stuff to support my claims, AND I've read and highlighted info in articles the people arguing AGAINST ME, that support my pov.

I'm not going down some rabbit hole so you can say... "Nope, you're wrong."

This is fun, but it's not THAT MUCH fun.

 

[ill]

Heh. Show me the statements to the contrary. I've already linked up enough stuff to support my claims, AND I've read and highlighted info in articles the people arguing AGAINST ME, that support my pov.

I'm not going down some rabbit hole so you can say... "Nope, you're wrong."

This is fun, but it's not THAT MUCH fun.

you're a fucking hack. Take a hike.

 

[chf]

you're a fucking hack.

There's that irony thing again. Good thing it's only me 'talking down' to people, huh?

Take a hike.

Why would I do that?

 

[Orlando Eagles]

There's plenty written about how he writes (by him). He says he writes from an outline. He actually released his early EARLY notes of what he penned before he actually started the books, and while he ended up changing plenty, the broad strokes were still there.

You simply don't create that big of a roster of characters without an outline of where you're going.

<shrug>

Dunno why people have so much at stake for Benioff and Weiss being suddenly incompetent.

Well....in speaking for myself....I think B&W were immensely skilled at taking the completed written work, working with GRRM (initially, at least) and adapting the work to the screen. Until we reached the rough end of the books this went very smoothly.

I want to say the B&W and crew might just not be as good at handling this story with originality than they were at adapting the finished work. In fairness.....anything we might have objected to, or reacted strongly to initially was pointed at GRRM (Red Wedding: "Why do you hate us, GRRM?"). Now if there is anything to object to we look at B&W with criticism.

But there are a lot of moving parts here that have this rushing to finish. I have not read an inkling of this anywhere (because thats the way such a story would go) but I wonder if the sheer cost of the show.....projected over 12-13 seasons....and with the worry that the slow, deliberate pace over a decade or more would lose viewership (while maintaining a status quo or higher budget) worried HBO. Furthermore......as already stated.....do you want B&W handling the original writing for 5-6 more years? Many factors (possibly like this, possibly more) led to the decision to cut season size down and get out in two. And all of it reads to me as to who dropped the ball on their end.

Which takes it all back to this.....the source material is what made it so great. GRRM created that Universe and all the rich characters and stories. And he deserved the pat on the back, the glory and popularity that came, as well as the countless offers of projects that came up. But he should not have taken on so many things that he completely could not commit to the source material that readers want.....and B&W/show fans need to keep the engine moving.

Yeah.....I am giving B&W a pass for not being skilled at original story telling here. It's not a stake in them. It is a stake in the show as it was going for years. Then the additional source material did not come. That was the winning combo....B&W's TV adaption of GRRM's source material. And what came up short?

It's less about giving others a pass for me and more about assigning blame at the base. Who did not come through to keep the formula going?

 

[chf]

Well....in speaking for myself....I think B&W were immensely skilled at taking the completed written work, working with GRRM (initially, at least) and adapting the work to the screen. Until we reached the rough end of the books this went very smoothly.

I want to say the B&W and crew might just not be as good at handling this story with originality than they were at adapting the finished work. In fairness.....anything we might have objected to, or reacted strongly to initially was pointed at GRRM (Red Wedding: "Why do you hate us, GRRM?"). Now if there is anything to object to we look at B&W with criticism.

But there are a lot of moving parts here that have this rushing to finish. I have not read an inkling of this anywhere (because thats the way such a story would go) but I wonder if the sheer cost of the show.....projected over 12-13 seasons....and with the worry that the slow, deliberate pace over a decade or more would lose viewership (while maintaining a status quo or higher budget) worried HBO. Furthermore......as already stated.....do you want B&W handling the original writing for 5-6 more years? Many factors (possibly like this, possibly more) led to the decision to cut season size down and get out in two. And all of it reads to me as to who dropped the ball on their end.

Which takes it all back to this.....the source material is what made it so great. GRRM created that Universe and all the rich characters and stories. And he deserved the pat on the back, the glory and popularity that came, as well as the countless offers of projects that came up. But he should not have taken on so many things that he completely could not commit to the source material that readers want.....and B&W/show fans need to keep the engine moving.

Yeah.....I am giving B&W a pass for not being skilled at original story telling here. It's not a stake in them. It is a stake in the show as it was going for years. Then the additional source material did not come. That was the winning combo....B&W's TV adaption of GRRM's source material. And what came up short?

It's less about giving others a pass for me and more about assigning blame at the base. Who did not come through to keep the formula going?

Except the 1 book/1 season formula has been there from the start. I thought prior to the series getting green-lit, that they'd do 2 season's per book. Given the thousand pages/book, that just made sense.

But that's not what B+W and GRRM wanted to do from the beginning.

AGAIN, the show can't now add back in all the people they've already cut out.

And I get what you're saying about B+W not handling original content,neither have done much that isn't adapted. But they've had pretty decent success at that, and what I found even at a MUCH lower level doing it, it's harder than you think before you try it.

But they've had some success before GOT. Weiss worked on 'Sunny in Philly,' and Benioff wrote adaptations for 'Kite Runner,' which certainly wouldn't have been an easy ask to adapt.

And they've created a good amount of 'original' content to bridge those gaps in earlier seasons. Ie: increasing the character of Jayne Westerling.

 

[DarthVedder]

right...keep saying he is involved, someone might believe you.
George R. R. Martin: “I do not watch Game of Thrones”

Well... He wrote Episode 7 of this season, meaning that he decided were he wanted the season to end, and what he wanted from all the characters. He's very much involved even if he doesn't watch the show.

Edit. I think this is a mistake. He's listed as the only writer for this episode, but it must be because he's listed as a writer for the whole series.