Game of Thrones

[chf]

you are giving the showrunners way too much credit. Without source material to fill in the plotholes, they are lost.

Good grief. They HAVE HIS NOTES, probably his entire ROUGH DRAFT, and they can get him on the fucking PHONE (which you've admitted).

Just stop.

 

[flyerhawk]

Agreed.
I'm not a fan of his books, but I respect the world building and story that he wants to tell.
If B+W just have a simple outline and know who dies and who lives, that's all I need to know.

I'm not sure how you can compare writing GoT to Wolverine : Origins, as everyone agrees that what they did with Deadpool totally missed the mark. Maybe he learned from that mistake.

FTR, I really don't want Game of Thrones to hew closely to what the Winds of Winter and a Dream of Spring will tell. They should both have the larger points like Jon coming back, being the son of Rhaegar and the ultimate ending all about the same. But I would prefer that the details differ a lot because it would be more interesting to me.

ASOIAF is a great fantasy series. But as far as being great writing, it falls pretty short in that regard.

 

[chf]

The only time I really got into it with you was your attempted defense of Jon not coming back to life in the books. You went pretty far off the reservation for that one.

You'd have to refresh my memory. Weren't you worried that GRRM was going to kill him off for good, and I was arguing that he'd be back?

 

[flyerhawk]

Good grief. They HAVE HIS NOTES, probably his entire ROUGH DRAFT, and they can get him on the fucking PHONE (which you've admitted).

Just stop.

Martin has also said on several occasions that he isn't thrilled with how the showrunners have taken the show in many respects.

 

[flyerhawk]

You'd have to refresh my memory. Weren't you worried that GRRM was going to kill him off for good, and I was arguing that he'd be back?

No. I was arguing that if GRRM WERE to kill him off for good that would be TERRIBLE writing and you argued that it wouldn't be because all characters are fair game. We both agreed that he wasn't going to kill him off.

 

[chf]

ASOIAF is a great fantasy series. But as far as being great writing, it falls pretty short in that regard.

Totally depends on what you're judging it against.

70% of fantasy genre fiction is shit. That's probably being kind. Is GRRM Cormac McCarthy? Nope. But then Cormac would probably fail hard at Swords and Sorcery.

I'd read it anyway though.

 

[Roy Munson]

Why would they have her under contract for next year if she dies sunday?

Bran flashback scenes.

 

[Inquisitor95]

That's the only thing?

Here I'll give you a free one that bothered me and I haven't seen anyone else mention.

Melisandre, the red woman, walked around the wall wearing just a red dress. She claimed the cold didn't bother her much anymore. She was a priest of the red god.

Thoros was a priest of the red god. He also brought people back to life with his power, and saw stuff in the fires. He even survived a mauling by a bear and didn't seem too much the worse for wear after having his vhest cauterized by a flaming seord.

Then he froze to death at night....

I think he downplayed how injured he was. He did not want the party to go back to Eastwatch for his sake.

Then he eventually succumbed to those injuries.

 

[flyerhawk]

Totally depends on what you're judging it against.

70% of fantasy genre fiction is shit. That's probably being kind. Is GRRM Cormac McCarthy? Nope. But then Cormac would probably fail hard at Swords and Sorcery.

I'd read it anyway though.

Agreed. I loved the books. But no one is going to confuse it for great literature.

 

[chf]

Martin has also said on several occasions that he isn't thrilled with how the showrunners have taken the show in many respects.

Right, which is another reason why you have to read between the lines a bit in these recent articles. He's a control freak. Which is why he CONTINUES to be involved in 1000 side projects he can't let go of, and not finish his fucking books.

But again, GOT is so far ahead of any fantasy TV show ever produced it's not in the same galaxy.

We could be not watching this instead.

 

[DetroitDevil]

Bran flashback scenes.

@ 3 million per spisode? Yeah ok.

 

[chf]

No. I was arguing that if GRRM WERE to kill him off for good that would be TERRIBLE writing and you argued that it wouldn't be because all characters are fair game. We both agreed that he wasn't going to kill him off.

Riiight. I guess I was just pointing out that George had pulled the rug out before. But yeah, given that Jon was a POV character it wasn't going to happen.

He's said the ending will be 'bittersweet.' So I expect some of our faves are going to not see the end. Or if they do, they won't be happy anyway.

But I still expect the 'comedy' ending as opposed to the 'tragedy,' using those in the broadest possible literary terms.

 

[Roy Munson]

@ 3 million per spisode? Yeah ok.

it was a joke. I doubt anybody major dies in the next episode since they need to come together to fight the army of the dead.

 

[chf]

Agreed. I loved the books. But no one is going to confuse it for great literature.

Eh, I see your point. I kinda' resist that though. I'll argue till the cows come home that Elmore Leonard was one of the great American novelists.

But absolutely, GRRM has made some big mistakes in the books (he admits it), and good god, could he use an editor now and then.

 

[Tharvot]

That's the only thing?

Here I'll give you a free one that bothered me and I haven't seen anyone else mention.

Melisandre, the red woman, walked around the wall wearing just a red dress. She claimed the cold didn't bother her much anymore. She was a priest of the red god.

Thoros was a priest of the red god. He also brought people back to life with his power, and saw stuff in the fires. He even survived a mauling by a bear and didn't seem too much the worse for wear after having his vhest cauterized by a flaming seord.

Then he froze to death at night....

Melisandre is also like 200 years old and is a stronger magician than Thoros. That was part of her mystique. Thoros is only recently converted to a believer. That bothered me very little.

The only thing thats bothered me this season so far are the very improbable time travelling, deus ex machina, and the show's seeming unwillingness to kill off major characters.

TBH, this past episode was the only one that really bothered me.

 

[Edonidd]

Yeah!

And don't even get me started on dragons. Seriously, how are we possibly supposed to believe in an animal that breath fire as if it were a napalm run? And how could it possibly fly? The thing weighs thousands of pounds. Are the laws of physics different in Westeros? Heck how did these medieval level people build a wall a thousand feet high without it collapsing on itself or toppling over? No way!!!

You're confusing suspension of disbelief with continuity.

I'm a huge fan of Sci-fi and fantasy so I'm chock full of SoD. You wanna put dragons in your book or movie? Fine put dragons in your movie. But if you put a dragon in your book or movie it can't be a unicorn half the time, well it could that's the beauty of Fantasy, it can be whatever you want. But in Fantasy and Sci-Fi more than any other genre continuity is of the utmost importance. In a world where the author can make up his own rules, if he doesn't then follow rules it's just bad writing and just all comes off as dues ex machina. And I hate that more than anything.

 

[flyerhawk]

Riiight. I guess I was just pointing out that George had pulled the rug out before. But yeah, given that Jon was a POV character it wasn't going to happen.

He's said the ending will be 'bittersweet.' So I expect some of our faves are going to not see the end. Or if they do, they won't be happy anyway.

But I still expect the 'comedy' ending as opposed to the 'tragedy,' using those in the broadest possible literary terms.

I think it is entirely possible that only one of Dany/Jon/Tyrion are left standing on the last page. And just about every character below that is now fair game.

Ultimately SOMEONE will need to stand victorious as an ending with the Night King on the Iron Throne would be preposterous. But it could easily just be one of the Big 3 with hodge podge of the remaining characters.

 

[flyerhawk]

You're confusing suspension of disbelief with continuity.

I'm a huge fan of Sci-fi and fantasy so I'm chock full of SoD. You wanna put dragons in your book or movie? Fine put dragons in your movie. But if you put a dragon in your book or movie it can't be a unicorn half the time, well it could that's the beauty of Fantasy, it can be whatever you want. But in Fantasy and Sci-Fi more than any other genre continuity is of the utmost importance. In a world where the author can make up his own rules, if he doesn't then follow rules it's just bad writing and just all comes off as dues ex machina. And I hate that more than anything.

Sure. But your examples didn't really speak to logical inconsistencies with the show physics. You used an example of Melisandre and Thoros which was pretty weak. The show pretty clearly says that the Gods do what they are going to do for their own reasons. They don't need to treat every disciple the same way.

 

[Inquisitor95]

 

[Payton]

with the way they do time in this show, she is likely to give birth on Sunday, where she could possibly die in childbirth

She'll give birth to Euron. Don't question it man, its a show about dragons after all.