Game of Thrones

[calsnowskier]

So why is it such a leap that GRRM (and B+W) are writing Sansa with a similar arc?

That's what you said, though.

You said that her character had changed MORE than Jamey. My point was that that is not possible because Jamey( how the hell do you spell his name???) has has done a complete 180. In episode 1, he was portrayed as one of the most evil characters ever.

 

[chf]

That's what you said, though.

You said that her character had changed MORE than Jamey. My point was that that is not possible because Jamey( how the hell do you spell his name???) has has done a complete 180. In episode 1, he was portrayed as one of the most evil characters ever.

Did I say more? My bad. But Sansa has changed a lot too. From head in the sky princess to raped survivor who is starting to fight for her families' honor.

Given the tools they were equipped with out of the gate, one could make a not too hyperbolic argument that she's come further. Jayme has rediscovered his moral compass, and lost a hand. She's discovered moral compasses can be overrated, and lost her innocence.

But Jayme had thousands of hours of martial training, and was before Vargo Hoat, the pre-eminent swordsman in the realm.

Sansa was a 11 year old who could strum a mean harp, and knew all her courtesies to a fault.

Which one is better equipped to handle war?

 

[chf]

I'm a little late to the party here (watched the finale last night), but I'm having a hard time understanding why some people don't see that all signs point to Sansa becoming a major player in this little saga, at least for awhile.

Her character has clearly changed and grown. Seems to me that not only has she been hardened by her experiences, she has become smarter and craftier. I have actually come around to liking her.

And I loved that little season-ending smile.

And to be clear, her enduring power may be who she marries when all the dust settles. But she's no longer prancing around as the horrified victim. Or locking herself in her room.

 

[Gatorchip]

She played one of the cards she had to play with manipulating LF to come to their rescue at Winterfell.

Hrmmm I saw it as the complete opposite. He met with her privately to let her know the army was there for her and she declined. Later, after she was unable to raise an army of her own, she wrote him to come with his army.

Seems to me like LF played her. He got what he wanted because she failed to do it without him.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

That stuff in King's Landing was some Breaking Bad type of shit. I was guessing Tommen would kill himself to fulfill the witch's prophecy but I wasn't sure. Which made that scene where he takes off his crown and hurls himself out of the window much better. I don't think he killed himself as a Romeo and Juliet thing I just think that he didn't want to be remembered as the King who's mother blew up the church and killed the Queen.

 

[Bridgeburner]

I kind of thought the opposite. He was infatuated with his queen and when he lost her he lost his shit.

 

[chf]

Hrmmm I saw it as the complete opposite. He met with her privately to let her know the army was there for her and she declined. Later, after she was unable to raise an army of her own, she wrote him to come with his army.

Seems to me like LF played her. He got what he wanted because she failed to do it without him.

He only 'gets what he wants' if he gets HER in the end. He gained nothing politically by saving them at Winterfell. He's no closer to sitting the Iron Throne.

In this one thing, LF thinks with the little head, and not the big one.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Physician heal thy complaining ass self.

Physician heal thy know it all ass.....

 

[chf]

Physician heal thy know it all ass.....

I'm not complaining about you though Hank. The ever deepening Hank Kingsley mystery. How could I want that to go away?

 

[Gatorchip]

He only 'gets what he wants' if he gets HER in the end. He gained nothing politically by saving them at Winterfell. He's no closer to sitting the Iron Throne.

In this one thing, LF thinks with the little head, and not the big one.

How disappointing it would be if he's suddenly driven only by his hormones. I don't see that happening.

LF got Sansa to send her bodyguard away to check on her uncle knowing it was a lost cause. He offered help, but only to her, then tried to convince her that the army is Jon’s not Sansa’s.

He’s still playing his games, and looks to be right on track.

I think Sansa is finally able to be honest and open while sharing only information when she has to share it. She isn’t playing anyone, she just doesn’t trust anyone. I do expect her to have him killed at the end of the story, but not because she outplayed him.

 

[chf]

How disappointing it would be if he's suddenly driven only by his hormones. I don't see that happening.

LF got Sansa to send her bodyguard away to check on her uncle knowing it was a lost cause. He offered help, but only to her, then tried to convince her that the army is Jon’s not Sansa’s.

He’s still playing his games, and looks to be right on track.

I think Sansa is finally able to be honest and open while sharing only information when she has to share it. She isn’t playing anyone, she just doesn’t trust anyone. I do expect her to have him killed at the end of the story, but not because she outplayed him.

Doesn't come out in the show (no time), but the foundational moment of his life was getting embarrassed by the Tully family, and not getting to have Cat.

The only reason he wants power is to rub it in the Tully/Stark noses.

The time spent at The Eyrie opened Sansa's eyes as to LF's motivations. Plus he himself (stupidly) taught HER how to play the game. The value of keeping secrets, to hold onto and use when most valuable. He didn't really have a choice of course, since Sansa telling the truth would have got Petyr killed by Corbray or Royce or Hornwood.

But she still has the secret of how Lysa Arryn died. She will always have that in her back pocket.

If she has him killed at the end, how does that not mean she 'outplayed' him. Isn't that kinda' final? Having him killed? How can she win MORE than that?

 

[Gatorchip]

Doesn't come out in the show (no time), but the foundational moment of his life was getting embarrassed by the Tully family, and not getting to have Cat.

The only reason he wants power is to rub it in the Tully/Stark noses.

The time spent at The Eyrie opened Sansa's eyes as to LF's motivations. Plus he himself (stupidly) taught HER how to play the game. The value of keeping secrets, to hold onto and use when most valuable. He didn't really have a choice of course, since Sansa telling the truth would have got Petyr killed by Corbray or Royce or Hornwood.

But she still has the secret of how Lysa Arryn died. She will always have that in her back pocket.

If she has him killed at the end, how does that not mean she 'outplayed' him. Isn't that kinda' final? Having him killed? How can she win MORE than that?

I also read the books so know his background. The only thing she did at the end was keep that secret, and as explained in the show, it was because she didn't know what would happen (to her) with balish dead.

No I don't think killing him means she out plays him. She has a name and he doesn't. She could have had him killed twice now. Both of them know it yet he's alive and "winning".

 

[chf]

No I don't think killing him means she out plays him. She has a name and he doesn't. She could have had him killed twice now. Both of them know it yet he's alive and "winning".

Okay, so how then, in your mind, can she 'win?'

Also, as I pointed out already, you hold your cards until they're worth the most. She can play the trump of the Moon Door, whenever she wants to.

For now, she dangles the hope of some Tully vag. And he brings the Vale army.

Who is leading whom?

How is any futher ahead in his quest to sit the Iron throne after defeating Bolton? Why'd he come to her rescue?

 

[chf]

Let me pose this question to you also. Petr Baelish isn't a man's man. He can't fight for shvt. He can't lead and inspire men. He has no land of his own. (Harrenhal heh) All he can do is manipulate and whisper and cajole.

Why is that him winning, but Sansa doing that is somehow not?

 

[Innermind]

 

[Innermind]

Relationship diagram from the official HBO 'Making Game of Thrones' June 28 blog post:


See the Connections Behind Ned’s Promise With This Infographic

 

[Breed]

View attachment 133103

That was a proper speech.

 

[BigRedMoe]

 

[Bulletz]

The theory is that Rhaegar actually married Lyssa. Which may have been the part that she whispered to Ned, the part of the reveal that they are still saving.

So possibly not a bastard afterall.

So John is actually Targaryen

 

[calsnowskier]

So John is actually Targaryen

And has a LEGAL right to the throne.