Game of Thrones

[Ewa PGH Fan]

He didn't need a shield. He needed to zig-zag. Stupid fucking giants.

HA!

 

[Superbelt]

Or the side of a hut. Since we're armchairing. Why didn't Jon tell Wun Wun to tear off one of the gates at Winterfell to use as a shield after he broke them down???

Stupid Fucking Giant.

SFG.

 

[chf]

Or the side of a hut. Since we're armchairing. Why didn't Jon tell Wun Wun to tear off one of the gates at Winterfell to use as a shield after he broke them down???

Pretty sure it was Bolton's through the eye that did the trick. So he needed a really big kettle for a pot-helm too.

 

[Superbelt]

Pretty sure it was Bolton's through the eye that did the trick. So he needed a really big kettle for a pot-helm too.

The Bolton Soldiers were hip. I saw some of their helmet's going way past their eyes and down over their noses. No arrows through the eyes for them.

A nice big kettle for his head would have been nice.

 

[chf]

The Bolton Soldiers were hip. I saw some of their helmet's going way past their eyes and down over their noses. No arrows through the eyes for them.

A nice big kettle for his head would have been nice.

Pretty sure GRRM described a huge one at Harrenhal.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Shit storm? Pfft. In the north, this barely qualifies as a stiff breeze.

I was just indirectly breaking your balls... I honestly enjoyed reading the exchange between you two. I've spent too much time reading nonsense in the political forum and forgot about how much insight you can gain from an honest disagreement.

 

[chf]

I was just indirectly breaking your balls... I honestly enjoyed reading the exchange between you two. I've spent too much time reading nonsense in the political forum and forgot about how much insight you can gain from an honest disagreement.

I dunno whether I should tip my cap in respect, or recommend you get counseling...

I lasted about 3 weeks in the political forum, and haven't been back since.

 

[Innermind]

For those of you who also happen to be World of Warcraft fans:

 

[Cave_Johnson]

So I just finished listening to the best theory I've heard yet on why Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Vale army.

According to the dialogue in EP #9, Ramsay had a 2 to 1 numerical advantage. So he meets Jon and his Northern scraps and wildlings out on the field of battle.

If scouts report back that there's suddenly an extra few thousand calvary and heavily armored foot troops, then Bolton retreats back into Winterfell, raises the portcullis, prepares the trebuchets, and lights Wun-wun on fire as soon as he lumbers too close to the walls. It takes months minimum for Jon to lay a seige, with winter coming on and few supplies. Jon loses.

So, Sansa hatches her plan, even hinting to Jon that there's no way that Bolton is going to let Rickon live. Bolton sees the numerical superiority intact, and comes out to play his longbow games with Rickon.

As soon as the armies are fully engaged, LF and the Vale ride for the battle and sweep up the reserve and what's left of the Boltons and Umbers.

Sacrificing the dead Northmen and wildlings to ensure victory over Bolton and getting her revenge. Cold-blooded, and effective, Sansa plays the winning hand. Not to marry LF, or to screw stuff up, but to achieve victory the only way they could, by complete surprise. Nobody could give it away, because nobody knew except her.

She's now a player in her own right.

I suppose that makes sense, but it's probably a bit too complex an explanation for the show. Everything playing out like that would have required more correspondence between Sansa and Littlefinger. Someone blew up the image of Sansa's note so we know she didn't lay the whole thing out in her original message. Any other talk between the two would have been by raven and it's unlikely a message from Moat Cailin addressed to Sansa is going to get to her without others ( namely Jon and the Maester) seeing it.

If we're just following the trend for this season the most likely explanation is probably the simplest explanation: that she never got a reply from Littlefinger. She didn't know that the army was coming and the Knights of the Vale just happened to show up at the perfect time. Why didn't Littlefinger send a raven to notify her that he was coming? Either he didn't think he needed to because he already told her they would come if she called, or he didn't want the raven to get intercepted. Maybe. I don't know.

Honestly the more I think about that battle the less sense anything seems to make. It seems to me they had a very specific idea in mind for that battle that required certain specific things to happen. The payoff was good. Overall the whole battle scene was well done. Just required some silliness to get there.

 

[WizardHawk]

T- 4 days and counting until the last episode and the next 42 week hiatus.

 

[chf]

I suppose that makes sense, but it's probably a bit too complex an explanation for the show. Everything playing out like that would have required more correspondence between Sansa and Littlefinger. Someone blew up the image of Sansa's note so we know she didn't lay the whole thing out in her original message. Any other talk between the two would have been by raven and it's unlikely a message from Moat Cailin addressed to Sansa is going to get to her without others ( namely Jon and the Maester) seeing it.

If we're just following the trend for this season the most likely explanation is probably the simplest explanation: that she never got a reply from Littlefinger. She didn't know that the army was coming and the Knights of the Vale just happened to show up at the perfect time. Why didn't Littlefinger send a raven to notify her that he was coming? Either he didn't think he needed to because he already told her they would come if she called, or he didn't want the raven to get intercepted. Maybe. I don't know.

Honestly the more I think about that battle the less sense anything seems to make. It seems to me they had a very specific idea in mind for that battle that required certain specific things to happen. The payoff was good. Overall the whole battle scene was well done. Just required some silliness to get there.

This is supposedly what someone deciphered from the letter she sent to Baelish.

“You promised to protect me … Now you have a chance to fulfill your promise … Knights of the Vale are under your command. Ride north for Winterfell. Lend us your aid and I shall see to it that you are … rewarded.”

So they both head to Winterfell.

The specifics of who said what and when and how, we'll either have to wait for, or we'll never get until the book comes out.

Dunno what's complicated about her plan though. Pretty 2 + 2 = 4 simple. If Bolton ends up behind the walls of Winterfell, they're not getting it back.

 

[chf]

Overall the whole battle scene was well done.

Wanted to lift this out specifically to respond to. Seems like you're damning it with faint praise. (could be reading too much into your comment btw)

Considering that it's a TV show, that battle scene was fan-fucking-tastic.

Are there little niggly details that someone can complain about? Sure. Just like any show. The physics of the scene where Jon chops the knight off of his horse, and remains not only standing, but with his sword in his hand, and the knight flies backwards off the horse? Yeah, no. Impossible.

Oh well. It was still incredibly well done, and showed what close quarters hand to hand combat was like better than any period battle scene I can ever remember seeing. Some of the Vietnam movies or SPR have done that for modern war, but no-one has ever done it for medieval stuff.

If you can't just turn off your picky meter for a scene like that, then you're watching the show specifically TO be picky.

If that floats your boat go nuts.

I enjoyed the fuck out of it.

 

[jakedog56]

I read an interesting theory that Sansa didn't tell Jon because she wants Jon dead so her claim to Winterfell is unopposed.

Highly unlikely but still interesting.

 

[juliansteed]

I read an interesting theory that Sansa didn't tell Jon because she wants Jon dead so her claim to Winterfell is unopposed.

Highly unlikely but still interesting.

Do you mean because she wanted Rickon dead? I heard that theory as well. Not sure I buy it, but of the 3 of them, his claim was the strongest and John's the weakest.

 

[RegentDenali]

I read an interesting theory that Sansa didn't tell Jon because she wants Jon dead so her claim to Winterfell is unopposed.

Highly unlikely but still interesting.

She's still being easily manipulated by little finger and she appears to be acting completely ruthless. Sweet Sansa is no more. The world has beaten it all out of her.

Considering she was forced to watch her father beheaded, and consistently physically and mentally abused by the Lannisters.
And then raped and abused constantly by her 2nd husband.

Well, I think she's officially cracked. Jon may not completely see it. But Sansa is batshit crazy now. Her motivations for taking Winterfell was obviously to unleash hell on Ramsey. She had already accepted that Rickon would die during all this. It was purely a revenge plot and regain control of the north for the Stark name.

And she's gonna want to rule Winterfell going forward and little finger has already successfully planted the seed in her head that Jon will be a threat to her goals.
That's why little finger always wants the crazier ones ruling which allows him to more easier manipulate them behind the scenes. That's what gets him hot. The game.

Sansa will reward him bigtime for bringing the Vale army. Jon's going to end up the fall guy for Sansa losing her marbles.

 

[jakedog56]

Do you mean because she wanted Rickon dead? I heard that theory as well. Not sure I buy it, but of the 3 of them, his claim was the strongest and John's the weakest.

The Rickon situation possibly applies also but I truely believe that she was sincere when she said he was already dead because Ramsey had him.

People obviously do not always support women rulers on GoT, so she could potentially see Jon as a threat to her claim as many would support a battle tested male over a female, especially one with charismatic leadership potential.

So Sansa gets a raven message from Littlefinger saying he will be there by midday. Sansa doesn't tell Jon in hopes that he will get killed and the Littlefinger shows up to wipe out what is left of Ramsey at the end of the battle. She now has clear claim to Winterfell. Plus, if she betrays Littlefinger (surprise scumbag!) she could easily manipulate her dumbass cousin who has a crush on her and end up with both Winterfell and the Vale.

Again unlikely unless she is really going through a major character transformation but it is possible. I guess we will see if she really has crossed to the darkside soon.

 

[jakedog56]

She's still being easily manipulated by little finger and she appears to be acting completely ruthless. Sweet Sansa is no more. The world has beaten it all out of her.

Considering she was forced to watch her father beheaded, and consistently physically and mentally abused by the Lannisters.
And then raped and abused constantly by her 2nd husband.

Well, I think she's officially cracked. Jon may not completely see it. But Sansa is batshit crazy now. Her motivations for taking Winterfell was obviously to unleash hell on Ramsey. She had already accepted that Rickon would die during all this. It was purely a revenge plot and regain control of the north for the Stark name.

And she's gonna want to rule Winterfell going forward and little finger has already successfully planted the seed in her head that Jon will be a threat to her goals.
That's why little finger always wants the crazier ones ruling which allows him to more easier manipulate them behind the scenes. That's what gets him hot. The game.

Sansa will reward him bigtime for bringing the Vale army. Jon's going to end up the fall guy for Sansa losing her marbles.

Possibly but I think that Littlefinger is now the one being manipulated. I could see her blackwidowing him very eadily.

 

[RegentDenali]

The Rickon situation possibly applies also but I truely believe that she was sincere when she said he was already dead because Ramsey had him.

People obviously do not always support women rulers on GoT, so she could potentially see Jon as a threat to her claim as many would support a battle tested male over a female, especially one with charismatic leadership potential.

So Sansa gets a raven message from Littlefinger saying he will be there by midday. Sansa doesn't tell Jon in hopes that he will get killed and the Littlefinger shows up to wipe out what is left of Ramsey at the end of the battle. She now has clear claim to Winterfell. Plus, if she betrays Littlefinger (surprise scumbag!) she could easily manipulate her dumbass cousin who has a crush on her and end up with both Winterfell and the Vale.

Again unlikely unless she is really going through a major character transformation but it is possible. I guess we will see if she really has crossed to the darkside soon.

I would love to see Sansa actually playing Little Finger and end up betraying him. It's got to come out eventually that Little Finger was the one who betrayed Ned. If Sansa doesn't already know it, word has got to come back to them eventually about it. It would be brilliant if she ends up playing him for max advantage and then bam!!
Sansa is playing the game of thrones these days for sure.

 

[chf]

She's still being easily manipulated by little finger and she appears to be acting completely ruthless. Sweet Sansa is no more. The world has beaten it all out of her.

Considering she was forced to watch her father beheaded, and consistently physically and mentally abused by the Lannisters.
And then raped and abused constantly by her 2nd husband.

Well, I think she's officially cracked. Jon may not completely see it. But Sansa is batshit crazy now. Her motivations for taking Winterfell was obviously to unleash hell on Ramsey. She had already accepted that Rickon would die during all this. It was purely a revenge plot and regain control of the north for the Stark name.

And she's gonna want to rule Winterfell going forward and little finger has already successfully planted the seed in her head that Jon will be a threat to her goals.
That's why little finger always wants the crazier ones ruling which allows him to more easier manipulate them behind the scenes. That's what gets him hot. The game.

Sansa will reward him bigtime for bringing the Vale army. Jon's going to end up the fall guy for Sansa losing her marbles.

What leads you to believe that she's acting 'crazy?' If she was a guy, wouldn't we respect her actions? Your opinion above reminds many that I've read about Arya over the years, particulary at Westeros, the GRRM fansite. Because she's female, it's beyond the pale that she's actively seeking to survive what life is throwing at her.

You say that she's not just crazy, but 'batshit' crazy. So where's the howling at the moon? Where's the outbursts or manic periods?

It was purely a revenge plot and regain control of the north for the Stark name.

isn't, as a Stark noble, that her duty?

((I screwed that whole post up with formatting the bold))

 

[Bridgeburner]

Honestly the more I think about that battle the less sense anything seems to make. It seems to me they had a very specific idea in mind for that battle that required certain specific things to happen. The payoff was good. Overall the whole battle scene was well done. Just required some silliness to get there.

Yeah, absolutely. I try not to think about the details and just enjoy it.