Game of Thrones

[juliansteed]

The part where I thought Jon seemed most out of character in that episode was when he asked Melissandre not to bring him back. I get it that he's been depressed in his 2nd life and has lost the will to live, but this happened shortly after he just told Sansa that he would never let Ramsay hurt her again. Also pretty much everything he's done in the past few seasons has been for the greater good (or at least intended to be) as opposed to his own personal interests. Just as he preached to his banner men, he needs to unite the North in the fight against the While Walkers.

 

[Edonidd]

I'm not usually good about letting things drop. But I can't sit here and argue with somebody who says Ned Stark was ruthless, deeply flawed, and/or not honorable. Especially not when it's CHF doing it. You're too smart to be this far wrong and have this little understanding of the nuances, which makes me feel like you're being disingenuous. I'm not gonna argue with somebody who's just playing devils advocate and doesn't even really believe the stuff he's saying.

 

[Innermind]

 

[juliansteed]

Interesting that even though we didn't get any King's Landing this episode, there was some dialogue that relates to that storyline. We knew there was wildfire beneath the city but I don't think we knew that the Mad King had some beneath the Sept until Tyrion mentioned it in this episode. I wonder if Cersei is going to target the Sept only or if she'll be burn the whole city down.

 

[WizardHawk]

Fuck
Yeah

You assholes wanted action, and action you got. One of the most action packed episode ever.

And Ramsy eaten to death by his own dogs. How satisfying was that?

 

[WizardHawk]

And I'm sure Davos is going to confront Melisandre, but I'm not sure who will come out on top of that one.

 

[chf]

I'm not usually good about letting things drop. But I can't sit here and argue with somebody who says Ned Stark was ruthless, deeply flawed, and/or not honorable. Especially not when it's CHF doing it. You're too smart to be this far wrong and have this little understanding of the nuances, which makes me feel like you're being disingenuous. I'm not gonna argue with somebody who's just playing devils advocate and doesn't even really believe the stuff he's saying.

Did take credit for beating Arthur Dayne 1 on 1 in honorable combat or not?

I'll repeat, in the world of Westeros, compared with Tywin Lannister or Littlefinger, or either Bolton,or a whole bunch of others, Ned Stark WAS an honourable man. He also had skeletons in his closet.

I dunno how you could read any of the GRRM novels and not get the nuance that there's no fully white or black characters. There's no Gandalf. There's no Sauron.

But maybe I don't believe that, maybe I'm just fucking with you?

Meh.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

A few thing bothered me:

1. How did Ramsay Bolton become the greatest tactical military commander in all the realms? He was undone by a Deux ex Machina Gandalf/Eomer moment, but he literally did every move flawlessly. Three years running he is the greatest general on the show.

2. Why the fuck are the Umbers so loyal to him? He is literally shooting arrows indiscriminantly into the Karstark troops (who at least wanted vengeance from Robb Starks stupidity), but the Umbers dont have that passion. But, they still just march into it...seemingly only a few weeks after a shaky alliance was formed with a former Bastard they barely tolerate.

3. What was the point of not telling Jon Snow about the Eyrie Knights, Sansa? Maybe a couple thousand men don't need to die Sansa. Faced with a few thousand armored Knights, 2000 Wildlings, a Giant, and the rightful heirs to Winterfell...... there is no way that even the stupid Umbars would still fight for Ramsay. They would have turned him over immediately rather than get slaughtered. That blood is on her hands.

 

[juliansteed]

So where do Jon and Sansa go from here? Looks like there will be some politics with Littlefinger and Robin Arryn.

I'm thinking Sansa and Jon could go their separate ways now. When Brienne and Pod get back and tell them what's happening at Riverrun she'll probably go south with them and Littlefinger and the knights of the Vale. If she does that she might decide to legitimize Jon Snow first since there must always be a Stark in Winterfell now that they are back on top. Or maybe they just forget about that and he heads back North towards the Wall with the Wildlings and the rest of the northern houses to get ready to fight the white walkers.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

A few thing bothered me:

1. How did Ramsay Bolton become the greatest tactical military commander in all the realms? He was undone by a Deux ex Machina Gandalf/Eomer moment, but he literally did every move flawlessly. Three years running he is the greatest general on the show.

2. Why the fuck are the Umbers so loyal to him? He is literally shooting arrows indiscriminantly into the Karstark troops (who at least wanted vengeance from Robb Starks stupidity), but the Umbers dont have that passion. But, they still just march into it...seemingly only a few weeks after a shaky alliance was formed with a former Bastard they barely tolerate.

3. What was the point of not telling Jon Snow about the Eyrie Knights, Sansa? Maybe a couple thousand men don't need to die Sansa. Faced with a few thousand armored Knights, 2000 Wildlings, a Giant, and the rightful heirs to Winterfell...... there is no way that even the stupid Umbars would still fight for Ramsay. They would have turned him over immediately rather than get slaughtered. That blood is on her hands.

Yeah pretty much all of that. Making Ramsay into some genius mastermind got a little old, especially after some of the stupid shit he pulled and got away with in earlier seasons ( shirtless fight with the Iron Born anyone?).

The Umbers never really made sense to me either, but that is where Osha and Rickon were headed and they clearly just wanted to tie up that loose end and dead characters seems to be the way they're doing that this season. Not sure if that will end up being Rickon's real fate, but I sure hope that if he goes out it isn't because he ran away from a bowman in a straight line like retard.

I'm not clear on why Sansa didn't tell Jon either. Especially after she already sent the raven. I guess they needed that "Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth day..." moment though.

Still a good episode, much better than that clusterfuck from last week.

 

[SFGRTB]

I don't get it. Why did Tully order the men to surrender to the Lannisters and Freys?

Tully words: Family. Duty. Honor. In that order.

Edmure Tully's son is the end of the Tully line. To keep the family going, Edmure needs to keep his son alive. I'm sure he has a lot of affection for him being his first born too.

 

[SFGRTB]

That was a pretty epic battle sequence, and overall episode. The sound of the horses bashing into each other was crazy, all the camera work was perfect.

The show has basically turned into a Hollywood blockbuster, so there are many things I won't go into here (like how poorly the true Lord of the North was treated in front of all the major Northern Houses....) because we are pretty much getting things at surface value now. I'm still enjoying the hell out of it though.

This pretty much went as expected, with the underdog army getting cornered, Vale ex-machina swooping in to save said underdogs, the Evil guy dying terribly. Still was fucking awesome to watch play out. RAISE THOSE STARK BANNERS, BITCHES! Not much analysis here, just awesome to watch.

Also, the Battle in Mereen, though quick, was highly enjoyable. I was laughing in glee when the Dothraki screamers were coming from around the corner (by the way, what were the Harpy doing there? Was that confirmation the Slavers were supporting them? That they are just anarchists who shine when things are going to shit?). About time Rheagal and Viseron come out of their damn cave, must have sensed Mother and Alpha.

Fuck that ONE ship! Though I get why, they were trying to make a point, and it sounds like they were able to take the rest of the Slavers' armada. Add on the 100 Greyjoy ships, looks like we have enough to sail to Westros...... Until Euron shows up with 1000 next week.

Euron is going to place himself as villain number 1, with Ramsay now gone.

 

[SFGRTB]

Also, how about the Legend of Jon Snow?!

Ramsay acknowledged in the parlay that Jon had developed the reputation as one of the best living swordsman. He commanded the defense of the Wall with 100 men against 100,000 Wildlings. He killed a White Walker. He carries a Valyrian steel sword. He was elected as one of the youngest Lord Commanders. He was brought back from death. He led an army outnumbered 3-1 to take back his Father's castle and secure Stark as the Northern power (which is pretty much made up of Vale forces at this point).

What will he do next??? Probably bury Rickon Stark in the Crypts and figure out he's not a Bastard.

 

[Superbelt]

What will he do next??? Probably bury Rickon Stark in the Crypts and figure out he's not a Bastard.

Yep. Him, the body of Rickon, Sansa and Littlefinger in the crypts should be a story.

 

[flyerhawk]

Did take credit for beating Arthur Dayne 1 on 1 in honorable combat or not?

I'll repeat, in the world of Westeros, compared with Tywin Lannister or Littlefinger, or either Bolton,or a whole bunch of others, Ned Stark WAS an honourable man. He also had skeletons in his closet.

I dunno how you could read any of the GRRM novels and not get the nuance that there's no fully white or black characters. There's no Gandalf. There's no Sauron.

But maybe I don't believe that, maybe I'm just fucking with you?

Meh.

I don't recall the exact language in the books, but it was hardly like Ned was bragging about killing Dayne. IIRC, he always said that it took 6 of them to kill him. He never claimed it was some one on one duel. And Dayne's death was hardly some dishonorable act using an objective metric. It is only dishonorable using the patented Ned Stark Absurdly Absolute Honor System™.

IMO, GRRM's point with Ned Stark was that Ned's honor code wasn't viable in the world of Westeros. He was too idealistic to survive in a world like that. Ned isn't Gandalf precisely because he puts his honor above doing what's right.

 

[flyerhawk]

What will he do next??? Probably bury Rickon Stark in the Crypts and figure out he's not a Bastard.

If they don't finish the Tower of Joy scene next week, I will feel really cheated. IMO, that would be poor storytelling. Although I wouldn't be surprised if it were the very last scene of the episode.

 

[PatsFan2003]

The ending was so satisfying. When Jon was beating Ramsey to death he backed off and looked at Sansa. I thought he was about to ask if she wanted a piece of his ass. Nope she got hers in the end.

Expect to see some Dani/Yara 2016 memes this week.

Definitely a little flirting going on...

I think with all they've been through, Sansa was more than entitled to see Ramsey ripped to shreds by his dogs. Very appropriate. Good to see the SOB go.

The Snow battle plan was pure Cannae which Snow promptly botched by racing forward like a madman. With Ramsey doing a nice phalanx imitation on his part.

Where did Sansa have time to get those miracle reinforcements though?

 

[NCChiFan]

Couple things bugged me, one Jon letting his army get surrounded, and letting his bowmen join them in the middle of it all, not hanging back and two, Wun Wun without a weapon. A club, a tree, a big spear, something? But, still loved the episode, loved the dragon CGI as well.

 

[chf]

I don't recall the exact language in the books, but it was hardly like Ned was bragging about killing Dayne. IIRC, he always said that it took 6 of them to kill him. He never claimed it was some one on one duel. And Dayne's death was hardly some dishonorable act using an objective metric. It is only dishonorable using the patented Ned Stark Absurdly Absolute Honor System™.

IMO, GRRM's point with Ned Stark was that Ned's honor code wasn't viable in the world of Westeros. He was too idealistic to survive in a world like that. Ned isn't Gandalf precisely because he puts his honor above doing what's right.

Gandalf never has to make hard choices. Ned Stark (and every other protagonist in the novels) does. And sure, according to the 'rules' Dayne's death WAS dishonorable. Dayne was following the rules like he was supposed to. He was the ideal that all other knights were to strive for. So while he may have been following questionable orders by his King, he was following orders.

He beat Ned and his five in straight up combat, until Reed backstabbed him. That isn't Stark's absurd honor system, it's the KNIGHTLY CODE. The one that Brienne tries to follow. THEN, he doesn't offer Dayne respite, he just outright kills him. Just because they're on the side we cheer for doesn't change what they did.

And I think you're putting too fine a point on 'bragging.' No, the honorable Ned Stark would never 'BRAG' about defeating Dayne. But Bran says it in that scene. 'I've heard the story hundreds of times...' Ned allowed that to be the narrative. He never set the record straight.

GRRM spends a shvt ton of time on this concept. Why is it that Jamie Lannister never tells anyone about the wildfire under KL? Why doesn't he EXPLAIN how he saved the city? Why does he allow the narrative to be that he's a kingslayer and an oath-breaker?

For honor.

GRRM loves his irony.

 

[chf]

Where did Sansa have time to get those miracle reinforcements though?

That was the letter writing part, and the meeting with Littlefinger.