Game of Thrones

[Edonidd]

Oh, and is it just me, or does Wun Wun look an awful lot like Liam Neeson? Especially in profile.

 

[UVA_Guy81]

Letting Ramsey be tortured/eaten by dogs seems way out of character for Jon. But I guess I could see him allowing it for Sansa. Maybe. Other than that minor quibble this was a pretty great episode. Oh and the other minor quibble I have with them not breaking that shield wall despite having wun wun literally tearing shield bearers in half. But I guess that fits within my Suspension of disbelief. Barely.

Her smiling about the dogs ripping him apart was even more un Stark like, but she has never really been very Stark like. Definitely a bitch though. If she would have at any point told Jon about her letter to Littlefinger, he could have easily delayed another day or two. Maybe not have gotten their whole army pretty much wiped out. I can't wait for her to die.

I think with Jon's mindset after that battle and killing Rickon, he probably didn't care what Sansa did with him.

As for Sansa, since he had raped her numerous times, she was probably enjoying every second of seeing Ramsay torn to shreds by the hounds since he messed with her mind really good. I do agree about how she should've told Jon about her letter, although I doubt Jon would've listened and marched into battle anyways.

 

[chf]

Ed you're funny as hell.

Yep, Sansa is a 'bitch' she had no reason to want revenge on Bolton. The Starks in the books can be as ruthless as anybody. Act 1 Scene 1 of the entire show, Ned beheading a Night's Watch deserter.



-----

The larger suspension of disbelief issue..

The most glaring thing in this or nearly any show about Dragons is the physics of riding them. There's no way anyone can stay on a dragon in combat (or barely even if they're flying straight and level).

No-one ever says boo about that. Because it's SOD.

----

That was a great battle scene, maybe the best filmed ever I'd say. In terms of portraying what it was like in the thick of it. Reminded me of the excellent book by Paul Kearney, 'The 10,000' which describes it essentially as a meat grinder. Abercrombie has done some good writing on this as well, describing how many soldier die almost like Jon did, not being able to breathe under the press of horse and man and corpse.

I look forward to reading up on the details of how they shot it, I'm betting some of the Japanese epics (Heaven and Earth etc) had more extras actually in the fight, but I've never seen anything like that in terms of how they portrayed it. Heaven and Earth was all extreme wide shots. LOTR was 'bigger' in scope than this episode, but that was nearly all CGI. Compared to the battle for King's Landing, it was huge - hundreds more extras.

I thoroughly enjoyed that.

When I first saw the dog in the shadows in the final scene, I was thinking 'Direwolf!' but there's not any other than Ghost in the area. Awesomely fitting for Ramsay to have his face chewed off by one of his girls.

 

[chf]

although I doubt Jon would've listened and marched into battle anyways.

I think she was worried that he wouldn't accept his help at all. Have to wait for the book to figure that out.

 

[Mondo Jay]

Watching again.

Fuck'n A!

 

[UVA_Guy81]

I think she was worried that he wouldn't accept his help at all. Have to wait for the book to figure that out.

I can see that as well. Regardless, I believe that Jon was determined to go into battle the next day no matter how many men he had or how much the odds were against him.

 

[Cowboyinexile]

The ending was so satisfying. When Jon was beating Ramsey to death he backed off and looked at Sansa. I thought he was about to ask if she wanted a piece of his ass. Nope she got hers in the end.

Expect to see some Dani/Yara 2016 memes this week.

 

[Edonidd]

I think with Jon's mindset after that battle and killing Rickon, he probably didn't care what Sansa did with him.

That's what he gets for not serpentining. Everyone knows to serpentine.

The whole Rickon plot line felt forced. First "big" death that I doubt anyone cared about. Even Osha had more screen time/character development than him. I really thought when they put that scene in with the Karstarks (was that who it was, I honestly forget) turning over Osha and Rickon that something was coming.

But nothing happened. It was just extremely... inelegant I guess. I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb here when I say I guarantee GRRM handles that differently in his version. I'm willing to bet just about anything on that. Not that we'll find out before 2023 ish.

 

[TheRangerDude]

That was awesome! Not near as many significant deaths as I thought their would be. I can see something like Little Finger having Sansa marry him to give the North the protection of the Knights of the Vale but then Bran coming back and being the rightful heir. However, that might not matter at this point. If the next episodes title means much... they better get to burning bodies quick.

 

[juliansteed]

Great episode! A lot of Braveheart reminders in that episode, even one in Mereen.

I was a big fan of Ramsay as a villain ever since he was introduced but it was time for him to go. I really thought Ghost would finish him off but his own hounds works too. Where was Ghost anyway?

When I saw the preview and heard the horns blowing just as Davos found out about Shireen, I thought for sure he was a goner. I figured he'd die before he got a chance to tell Jon. I'm glad I was wrong. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. Speaking of Melissandre, I thought Jon and Sansa would try (and fail) to have Rickon resurrected by Melissandre.

So where do Jon and Sansa go from here? Looks like there will be some politics with Littlefinger and Robin Arryn.

 

[Edonidd]

Ed you're funny as hell.

Yep, Sansa is a 'bitch' she had no reason to want revenge on Bolton. The Starks in the books can be as ruthless as anybody. Act 1 Scene 1 of the entire show, Ned beheading a Night's Watch deserter.



-----

The larger suspension of disbelief issue..

The most glaring thing in this or nearly any show about Dragons is the physics of riding them. There's no way anyone can stay on a dragon in combat (or barely even if they're flying straight and level).

No-one ever says boo about that. Because it's SOD.

----

That was a great battle scene, maybe the best filmed ever I'd say. In terms of portraying what it was like in the thick of it. Reminded me of the excellent book by Paul Kearney, 'The 10,000' which describes it essentially as a meat grinder. Abercrombie has done some good writing on this as well, describing how many soldier die almost like Jon did, not being able to breathe under the press of horse and man and corpse.

I look forward to reading up on the details of how they shot it, I'm betting some of the Japanese epics (Heaven and Earth etc) had more extras actually in the fight, but I've never seen anything like that in terms of how they portrayed it. Heaven and Earth was all extreme wide shots. LOTR was 'bigger' in scope than this episode, but that was nearly all CGI. Compared to the battle for King's Landing, it was huge - hundreds more extras.

I thoroughly enjoyed that.

When I first saw the dog in the shadows in the final scene, I was thinking 'Direwolf!' but there's not any other than Ghost in the area. Awesomely fitting for Ramsay to have his face chewed off by one of his girls.

First, I didn't say she wouldn't / shouldn't /didn't want revenge. I just don't think Jon would have given it to her. And act 1 scene 1 is the exact reason I think that. Ned didn't behead that guy out of fear or anger or revenge. He beheaded him because that was the law. And he didn't do it with his own sword and his own 2 hands because he was bloodthirsty. He did it because beheading a scared boy for running away was a terrible thing to do, and a real Lord doesn't make somebody else do something he wouldn't do himself.

The Jon before he got stabbed to death would have beheaded Ramsay the same as his "father". Or at least hung him. I could even see him letting Ghost kill him, which I agree was what I thought was going to happen there. If this is the new Jon then being brought back changed him for sure. Otherwise it was just out of character. No matter how much Bolton deserved it or how satisfying it was.

And you have to admit Sansa smiling while walking away after watching Ramsey get eaten alive is pretty fucking evil.

 

[UVA_Guy81]

That's what he gets for not serpentining. Everyone knows to serpentine.

The whole Rickon plot line felt forced. First "big" death that I doubt anyone cared about. Even Osha had more screen time/character development than him. I really thought when they put that scene in with the Karstarks (was that who it was, I honestly forget) turning over Osha and Rickon that something was coming.

But nothing happened. It was just extremely... inelegant I guess. I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb here when I say I guarantee GRRM handles that differently in his version. I'm willing to bet just about anything on that. Not that we'll find out before 2023 ish.

Agree 100% on Rickon. Even from episode one, I never really saw what he added to to the plot. He definitely could've been left out and nobody would've cared or noticed. During this episode, I was more upset that Wun Wun died than Rickon as even Sansa pretty much knew that Rickon was going to die. At least Wun Wun had a purpose.
The only minor surprise was that it seemed like they hinted two or three times during the season about Ramsay's army deserting him and/or turning on him but nothing was every made of it.

Looking at the preview for next week, were Sansa and Littlefinger talking around the Wierwood tree because it sure looked like it. If so, I wonder if they'll encounter, Bran, Benjen and Meera?

 

[juliansteed]

The ending was so satisfying. When Jon was beating Ramsey to death he backed off and looked at Sansa. I thought he was about to ask if she wanted a piece of his ass. Nope she got hers in the end.

Expect to see some Dani/Yara 2016 memes this week.

I think that was Yara's best scene so far in the series. She had a lot of good lines during that conversation.

Theon should get along pretty well with Grey Worm too.

 

[juliansteed]

Agree 100% on Rickon. Even from episode one, I never really saw what he added to to the plot. He definitely could've been left out and nobody would've cared or noticed. During this episode, I was more upset that Wun Wun died than Rickon as even Sansa pretty much knew that Rickon was going to die. At least Wun Wun had a purpose.
The only minor surprise was that it seemed like they hinted two or three times during the season about Ramsay's army deserting him and/or turning on him but nothing was every made of it.

Looking at the preview for next week, were Sansa and Littlefinger talking around the Wierwood tree because it sure looked like it. If so, I wonder if they'll encounter, Bran, Benjen and Meera?

I don't believe Rickon said a word since coming back. I wanted to hear how much his voice changed. Oh well!

 

[UVA_Guy81]

I don't believe Rickon said a word since coming back. I wanted to hear how much his voice changed. Oh well!

You can always watch San Andreas from last year for that since he had a minor role in it.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Looking like a possible Stark family reunion coming soon if Bran is also heading that way.

Oh, by the way, does anyone have any theories on why Jaqen told Arya now she is now no one? There is a theory out there that Arya is actually dead and the Waif was wearing her face but for me, that doesn't make any sense... the Waif's face is now hanging in the hall.

 

[RegentDenali]

If Sansa agreed to marry Littlefinger, it would be the dumbest move in the history of dumb Stark moves. Especially if he does it just to make Jon Snow suffer and drive a wedge between Sansa and him. It would be eye rolling comedy if that's what happens.

For fucks sake, he's the reason Ned Stark lost his head.

The guy has literally become a parody character. He might as well have a top hat and a waxed mustache that he twirls with his fingers. Her cousin ultimately controls the Vale army anyway.

Give me a break.

 

[juliansteed]

Looking like a possible Stark family reunion coming soon if Bran is also heading that way.

Oh, by the way, does anyone have any theories on why Jaqen told Arya now she is now no one? There is a theory out there that Arya is actually dead and the Waif was wearing her face but for me, that doesn't make any sense... the Waif's face is now hanging in the hall.

Yeah I don't think that theory makes sense for that same reason.

I heard another theory that I think kind of makes sense.

Spoiler

Bad writing.

 

[chf]

First, I didn't say she wouldn't / shouldn't /didn't want revenge. I just don't think Jon would have given it to her. And act 1 scene 1 is the exact reason I think that. Ned didn't behead that guy out of fear or anger or revenge. He beheaded him because that was the law. And he didn't do it with his own sword and his own 2 hands because he was bloodthirsty. He did it because beheading a scared boy for running away was a terrible thing to do, and a real Lord doesn't make somebody else do something he wouldn't do himself.

The Jon before he got stabbed to death would have beheaded Ramsay the same as his "father". Or at least hung him. I could even see him letting Ghost kill him, which I agree was what I thought was going to happen there. If this is the new Jon then being brought back changed him for sure. Otherwise it was just out of character. No matter how much Bolton deserved it or how satisfying it was.

And you have to admit Sansa smiling while walking away after watching Ramsey get eaten alive is pretty fucking evil.

If you'd had parts of you flayed, and been raped over and over again, I suspect your take on Ramsay's fate would be pretty macabre too.

Jon has fundamentally changed, yes. He's tired. He doesn't want to be brought back if he dies again. He's been betrayed and killed by him own sworn brothers. He's seen what honor gets you.

Eddard Stark himself was flawed. Thus the scene at the Tower of Joy that Bran saw in flashback. Ned Stark NOT the all honorable man. Ned Stark all too human.


Ned Stark who let the world believe he beat Arthur Dayne in honorable combat, who would have died if not for Howland Reed stabbing Dayne in the back. Ned killing the defenseless Dayne, because of what had been done to his sister.

Sounds like Jon Snow letting Sansa get some justice fits right in with the Stark 'Honour' to me.

And don't get me wrong, Ned Stark IS an honourable man by the Lannister or Bolton standard. But he was deeply flawed, just like pretty much everyone in GOT.

To the victor goes the history: summed up perfectly in Sansa's speech to Ramsay about how he'd be erased from history. Him, his house, all memory of Bolton.

 

[chf]

That's what he gets for not serpentining. Everyone knows to serpentine.

The whole Rickon plot line felt forced. First "big" death that I doubt anyone cared about. Even Osha had more screen time/character development than him. I really thought when they put that scene in with the Karstarks (was that who it was, I honestly forget) turning over Osha and Rickon that something was coming.

But nothing happened. It was just extremely... inelegant I guess. I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb here when I say I guarantee GRRM handles that differently in his version. I'm willing to bet just about anything on that. Not that we'll find out before 2023 ish.

George will spend more time on him for sure, but the end result will still be the same. GRRM kept him offscreen for a reason, and the show tossed him out because they knew how he was going to turn out. George will explain it better. But the outcome won't be much different. Maybe someone else kills him? He ends up dead anyway.