Future HOFers?

[DragonfromTO]

I actually really like Bagwell, but unfortunately for him, he played in an era where steroids were the norm and you are basically guilty until proven innocent. If he didn't play in that era, he would be a 1st ballot HOFer without a doubt, IMO.

The reason I think Cabrera is a slam dunk is the personal accolades he has had over the years. He became the 1st right handed hitter to win 3 straight batting titles since Honus Wagner in 1920-1925. He became the 1st player since Carl Yazstremski 45 years ago to win the Triple Crown. On top of the batting titles, he has won 2 home runs titles and 2 rbi titles.

Couple that with the fact he will be have won back to back MVP's this year and finished in the top 5 five other times already -- I think his place is secure in the HOF.

Think you meant Rogers Hornsby

 

[da55bums]

I really need to figure out how to block someone -- it is awfully hard to type, when I have dabums swinging from my nutsack. I appreciate the man crush you have on me dabums, but I don't swing that way.

lol, yeah thats it...your right again.

The point was, here we go again on the debate of Miggy and I couldn't believe someone brought it up, AGAIN...

nobody knows how Miggy's career will play out, NOBODY.

It could be Dale Murphy...who also won back to back MVP's

You put Miggy's numbers up against Aaron and Mays after 10 years? so how many other players numbers stacked up after 10 years...Ted Williams, Pujols, etc, etc...

Even the guy being talked about Utley....you are even saying he isn't HOF worthy....why? because the last 4 years he has been injuried......then Miggy was injuried the end of this season, had surgery (like Utley did 4 years ago) and could battle injuries the next 4 years also...

its a pointless argument to say Miggy is comparable to the all time greats who did it, over a career, when miggy's career hasn't been done...guess Mike Trout is the all time greatest player who played the game if we just "guess" at how the rest of career will go.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Even the guy being talked about Utley....you are even saying he isn't HOF worthy....why? because the last 4 years he has been injuried......then Miggy was injuried the end of this season, had surgery (like Utley did 4 years ago) and could battle injuries the next 4 years also...

Did your parents drop you on your head as a child? The only comparison between Utley and Cabrera is they both have played 10 full seasons. Utley is 34, Cabrera is 30. Utley has missed 331 games in 10 years, Cabrera has missed 47. Utley has 0 MVP's and 0 top 5 MVP finished. Cabrera has 1 (with another coming this year) and 5 other seasons in the top 5 for MVP. Cabrera has led the league in HRs twice -- Utley 0. Cabrera has won 3 batting titles -- Utley has 0. Cabrera has won 3 RBI titles -- Utley has 0. Should I keep going?

Cabrera has led the MLB twice in OPS+, twice in OPS, three times in OBP, twice in SLG % and twice in Total Bases, as well as once in doubles. Utley has a zero in all those categories.

Cabrera has put up Superstar numbers for 10 years running. Utley had a 5 year stretch, but 2 years prior and 4 years after are nowhere near superstar numbers, because he can't stay healthy.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

its a pointless argument to say Miggy is comparable to the all time greats who did it, over a career, when miggy's career hasn't been done...guess Mike Trout is the all time greatest player who played the game if we just "guess" at how the rest of career will go.

Yeah, because playing for 2 seasons is really comparable to someone doing it for 10 years. As Ron White says -- You can't fix stupid.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

It could be Dale Murphy...who also won back to back MVP's

Cabrera already has better numbers than Dale Murphy in EIGHT less seasons. Maybe if Dale Murphy didn't hit about .250 his first 4 full seasons while only averaging about 55-60 rbi's. He'd be in the HOF.

Like Utley -- Murphy had a 5 year stretch or so where he put up superstar numbers. The rest of the seasons -- he didn't. So ONCE AGAIN I will say -- Cabrera has been doing it for TEN years or every year he has been in the MLB. He didn't just start putting up monster numbers. He was doing it when he was 21 and hit almost .300 with 33 homeruns and 112 rbis. He has just continued to get better.

 

[navamind]

The gap between Miggy and Utley offensive is huge. But the same could be said about the gap between them in baserunning and defense.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I believe that HOF is all statistical and that we dont need a voting panel...
Here is what i think a hall of famer is:

1. has compiled one milestone statistic- 3000 Hits, 1500 Runs, 1800 RBIs, 500 HR(i think it should be 525), 600 SB,300 Wins,600 saves,3000 Ks. Dont care if a "compiler" or not if you have any of these statistics then automatic HOF.

2. Needs to play 1690+ games in career or 6760+ PA- this is a qualification that is needed(catchers can play less games). for pitchers then 350+ games or 2450 innings(relievers clearly play less games/innings)

3.if qualified at#2, 162 Game average in career is MVP caliber player(includes defense)-automatic bid

4. if player does not qualify at #1,3- then player needs at least 10 MVP caliber seasons (includes defense)-automatic bid
b. if player not qualified at 1,3(qualification #2 is irrelevant)- then needs 7 seasons of being the best player(legend status)- top 10 player of all time in those 7 seasons(includes defense)-automatic bid.

5. if player does not qualify at #1,3,4. Then 162 game average needs to be elite at players Defensive position(automatic bid)

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The gap between Miggy and Utley offensive is huge. But the same could be said about the gap between them in baserunning and defense.

Neither player is getting into the HOF for their defense or base running.

 

[broncosmitty]

With Lou Whitaker being off the ballot as quickly as he was, I don't see why Chase Utley should be a HOFer. Unless has gets another 1000 hits, 500 runs, 150 doubles, 300 RBI, 3 Gold Gloves, and he and Rollins turn more DPs than Lou and Tram did.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I don't think the Chase Utley/Miguel Cabrera comparison is fair for the simple fact they play in different positions - the scarcity of 2B could really make what Chase Utley has done even more special

Miguel Cabrera's simply a great player, he's going to get in because he's a flat out dominant hitter - Chase Utley would get in because overall(offense/defense), he was one of the best 2B's in his years in the league - there are some 2B's that have power, some have better defense, some have good speed, some hit for average, but there are very, very few 2B's that could put all four together and Chase Utley is one of the very few - Chase Utley is one of the best 2B's of his time, without a doubt

 

[navamind]

With Lou Whitaker being off the ballot as quickly as he was, I don't see why Chase Utley should be a HOFer. Unless has gets another 1000 hits, 500 runs, 150 doubles, 300 RBI, 3 Gold Gloves, and he and Rollins turn more DPs than Lou and Tram did.

Both should be in IMO. Whitaker isn't the only 2B snub. Grich should be in as well.

 

[broncosmitty]

Both should be in IMO. Whitaker isn't the only 2B snub. Grich should be in as well.

Utley has a long way to go IMO. And the numbers I listed that he needs to reach are in order to be even with a man who isn't on the ballot. But there are always things that don't add up. A lot has to do with national popularity. Exp: Barry Larkin. (Who I was a big fan of as a kid, still respect, but feel was put in out of turn)

 

[DragonfromTO]

With Lou Whitaker being off the ballot as quickly as he was, I don't see why Chase Utley should be a HOFer. Unless has gets another 1000 hits, 500 runs, 150 doubles, 300 RBI, 3 Gold Gloves, and he and Rollins turn more DPs than Lou and Tram did.

That they made a mistake on Lou isn't evidence that they should compound the mistake though. I still think Lou will eventually get in through the VC. Bobby Grich may remain shit out of luck though.

 

[broncosmitty]

If Utley somehow can stay healthy,(unlikely) and move past other 2nd baseman whos career numbers are currently superior I think he could get in.(He really only had 5 full and productive seasons before the injuries) But I really don't see how thats possible. Aside from the numbers I already listed, Whitaker has TWICE the walks. If it was a mistake that he's not in, it should be rectified. I think it was more of setting a standard. Even if I don't like the standard on account of my homerism.

 

[navamind]

If Utley somehow can stay healthy,(unlikely) and move past other 2nd baseman whos career numbers are currently superior I think he could get in.(He really only had 5 full and productive seasons before the injuries) But I really don't see how thats possible. Aside from the numbers I already listed, Whitaker has TWICE the walks. If it was a mistake that he's not in, it should be rectified. I think it was more of setting a standard. Even if I don't like the standard on account of my homerism.

Utley was never really known for drawing walks. He gets plunked a lot though, which has contributed to his high OBPs. He led the NL three years in a row and finished 3rd in 2010 and 2011 despite missing significant time. Utley has a career BB% of 9.7. Whitaker's was 12.0%.

 

[broncosmitty]

His 2010 and 2011 numbers are a little skewed since he missed 1/3 of the season both years. I don't think he was eligible to lead the league in any rate category due to coming up short of 500 plate appearances. But maybe Im wrong.

 

[navamind]

He had 511 plate appearances in 2010. You need 502 to qualify.

 

[broncosmitty]

He had 454 in 2011.

 

[navamind]

He had 454 in 2011.

Yes.

But you don't have to qualify to appear on the leader boards for counting stats.

 

[da55bums]

Did your parents drop you on your head as a child? The only comparison between Utley and Cabrera is they both have played 10 full seasons. Utley is 34, Cabrera is 30. Utley has missed 331 games in 10 years, Cabrera has missed 47. Utley has 0 MVP's and 0 top 5 MVP finished. Cabrera has 1 (with another coming this year) and 5 other seasons in the top 5 for MVP. Cabrera has led the league in HRs twice -- Utley 0. Cabrera has won 3 batting titles -- Utley has 0. Cabrera has won 3 RBI titles -- Utley has 0. Should I keep going?

Cabrera has led the MLB twice in OPS+, twice in OPS, three times in OBP, twice in SLG % and twice in Total Bases, as well as once in doubles. Utley has a zero in all those categories.

Cabrera has put up Superstar numbers for 10 years running. Utley had a 5 year stretch, but 2 years prior and 4 years after are nowhere near superstar numbers, because he can't stay healthy.

I was not comparing Utley to Miggy you moron...just stating that Utley had surgury 4 years ago and has been injury plagued since (truth)....and coincidently Miggy just had surgury (truth)....it is POSSIBLE that Miggy is injury plagued the REST OF HIS CAREER (truth)...guess what, its happened before Utley even (truth again)...your just brilliant.

I continue to state...Miggy has been the BEST hitter in baseball the last 3 years (true)....yes, we all can see he has hit great for 10 years (true)...Yes he most likely will get in the HOF (truth)....none of that is being argued....what is, is PREDICTING the future and his place as an all time great....and even your dumb ass could be correct but it is NOT the TRUTH, lol

This name calling thingy is sorta fun, childish, but a bit fun.