Flopping pitchers

[JohnU]

As I suspected, Latos and Cingrani are flopped in the rotation thanks to the Monday off. That would mean Cueto should go Friday if he is ready. Cingrani would then be skipped and probably sent back to Lousyville.

Latos will pitch Thursday, Cingrani scheduled for Friday in Philly. So it depends on Cueto's rehab.


CBS reporting this:

Tony Cingrani 'wouldn't be surprised' if he's sent down

Reds starter Tony Cingrani said he "wouldn't be surprised" if he's demoted once Johnny Cueto is ready to return.

The other candidate to be demoted, Mike Leake, is a four-year veteran in the majors, and veteran status could play a role in the move. Manager Dusty Baker has been encouraged by Cingrani's strong start. "The silver lining is he's gotten extended time here, so the lining is that he's put us in a position to win," Baker said. Cingrani has a 2.89 ERA and a 4.10 FIP in five major-league starts this season.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

The report I read said Cueto will go Tuesday for Dayton and maybe back for Sunday against Phillies.

Parra has begun rehab as well, so the potential for two roster moves for the pitching staff might be in the works within the next week to ten days.

Heisey has begun rehab also, so who'll be sent out to make room for him? Might be Robinson with the way Lutz has hit the ball. He's taken advantage of his playing time with a 6 game hitting streak and even shows good speed for a big guy with a couple steals.

 

[JohnU]

Robinson is better on defense than Lutz. My reading suggested Lutz would go back to Pensacola. That doesn't make sense to send him to AA. I prefer Robinson over Heisey but Heisey over Lutz, mainly as a RH batter.

I would really hope Parra doesn't come back to Loogy. Seems like the bullpen is getting its rhythm now. Losing Cingrani will be one issue. I guess somebody will suddenly end up on the DL to make room for somebody.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I agree as probably everyone would about Parra's return John. I'll never understand what they were thinking when they signed him.

I do have to admit I didn't think much of Robinson when they signed him, but he has grown on me. I'd like to see him play against LHP, maybe in CF to give Choose a day off against a tough lefty here and there.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Damn smart phone, I say Choo, it spells Choose. I Choose Choo.

 

[BuckBearcat]

As far as Cingrani-Leake, how does it work? I am assuming that Leake gets paid his same salary regardless of where he plays. Does the same thing go for Cingrani, or does he get paid big league money while up with the Reds and minor league dough when he's at AAA?

I'd guess that would have something to do with it. Leake hasn't been awful and has a longer big league track record than Cingrani, so that might have something else to consider.

Personally, I would like to see Cingrani stick around for a longer look. If that means Leake stays and goes to the pen, so be it. I'd like having a lefty in the rotation.

 

[JohnU]

Simon, Parra, Marshall don't have options. Everyone else does.
I imagine, though I don't follow the audit trail on this, Cingrani signed a major-league contract when he was brought up from the Bats. I'd assume he won't take a pay cut just because he was sent back. It's not like he had a choice.

 

[chico ruiz]

there are a few other considerations for reds mgmt. in terms of cingrani. is cingrani on a innings pitched limitation? he threw 150 innings last year. the year before that he threw 50 innings at billings. he had some arm trouble coming out of rice, so they slowly built his pitch count at billings. whatever it was, it must be behind him now. i think he's thrown roughly 40 innings btwn the reds and bats so far this year. if they send him to louisville, he will go every 5th day, but probably be on a fairly rigid pitch count. reds could very well need him come august & september.

 

[chico ruiz]

the other thing is; cingrani would be afforded the opportunity to really develop a secondary 'out' pitch at louisville. if he does that, look out. a good slider to go with his 95 mph fastball w/ tailing action, and a change....wow.

 

[eburg5000]

I wonder who will be sent down if they bring Parra back?

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I think you may be right John. Players on the 40 man are signed to Major League contracts and are considered on "optional assignment" when in the minors.

A guy like Corky Miller would take a pay cut because he was removed from the 40 man, but I'm assuming as long as you're on the 40 man your pay status remains the same.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I agree Chico.

But the reports from Louisville were that he wasn't throwing many secondary pitches there either. I understand his desire to go with his first pitch because he wants to impress the brass, but he really does need to work on the slider and change-up if he wants to be more than a "flash in the pan" pitcher.

 

[chico ruiz]

if you step back and look at this from a majority of the other mlb teams perspectives this is a very good problem to have. the reds are pretty deep with good pitchers that are at the major league level, with experience. whatever decision they make next week, and barring numerous injuries, this will payoff in august and september. october? we'll have to wait and see. right now, there are a lot of people on this board that think the reds will not make the playoffs. based on this 'problem,' the defense behind it, and overall youth, i think they will.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Parra was signed to be the 2nd lefty reliever (LOOGY) when the idea was to put Chapman in the rotation, but Walt forgot Dusty refuses change, and Chapman remembered the days in Cuba, when disagreeing with the skipper meant chopping sugar cane the rest of your life. The Brewers may suck, but they effectively traded Parra for Mike Gonzalez, a smarter move than ours, IMO.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I still think Leake IS one of the best 12 pitchers, just not one of the best 5 starters. I'd forgo the inevidible and make him the long reliever, instead of watching him throw his 4.00 ERA to AAA... He's also about the 2 nd best PH on the team. Just saying.

 

[JohnU]

Until we get consistent hitting, I remain skeptical of anything ahead of a wild card chase toward the end of September. When that changes, I will concede to being an overt pessimist. I suppose watching baseball since 1955 has steeled me to the reality that the best of 7 goes to the team that wins the first 4 games.

I agree that the Reds have probably seen enough of Cingrani to know what his strengths and weaknesses are. To that end, they were fairly fortunate to give the guy the chance to show it here in the bigs. Could be, that's the reason Parra was left on the DL. I never believed Parra was truly hurt but somebody had to move over for Marshall. Funny how this "pectoral" injury just happened. I'd call it: Take one for the team, Manny. The pay's the same.

I believe Dusty would have used Parra in a spot starting role had all those options not been available.

But I am wary of Leake as well. Pitching in Miami and New York, he could still keep the ball in the park and look good. Trojan horses are interesting in MLB. They tend to show that they can't run after the first few races. But it's hard to keep Leake out of the mix. He has plenty of MLB experience, is a good enough hitter to keep himself in a game and plays pretty sound defense. Perhaps having Hanigan back will add another inning to his outings.

Cingrani will be sent out and there isn't much doubt about that. Parra will probably replace Ondrusek, since we need the lefty more than the righty. I'd rather have Lefty Grove than Manny Parra, to be truthful.

 

[chico ruiz]

that's a interesting interpretation on what went into the chapman starter / closer decision making process 1507. what do they pay per hour for chopping the stuff? are the benefits better than picking tomatoes in florida? i've been looking to supplement my income and i like to work outdoors. i've always enjoyed physical labor. good for the soul. also, the idea of wielding a machete with impunity sounds attractive.

 

[JohnU]

I think cane choppers who can throw a baseball 101 mph tend to be better paid than some of the shorter, less-adept athletes.

I agree that the machete has an imaginary enhancement that makes me at times covet some otherwise benign forms of anarchy.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Chico-

As you might be aware, I differ with Ozzie in the Castro regime "benefits". I have buddies that have done Gitmo duty, and it isn't just Uncle Sam putting inhuman pressure on people there... otherwise, wouldn't be illegal to leave at will, and fewer would want to. Cuba is a beautiful place run by ugly thugs, IMO. I coached a kid from Cuba- escaped on a raft ride and luckily wasn't one of the 30 or so sent back. Had an uncle in the states that got out years earlier. My scenario about career options if baseball didn't work out isn't unheard of.

Actually, my sense of humor is probably better appreciated in person. I'm far less prejudiced than I think I've convinced you I am. I poke fun at everyone, and get a lot of the same from friends. I had a guy ask me what tribe my ancestors came from, and i told him the Budweiser tribe. Am I insensitive ? Possibly, but im not insincere or uncaring. My political in-correctness is a product of the impression that all of us are the same, flawed species, that should be proud of their heritage, without having to make orhers inconvenienced by it, and sometimes ridiculous circumstances deserve ridicularity. I don't mean to offend, just to share a laugh, or be laughed at is ok by me.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Besides, try to imagine baseball without Hispanics. It would be similar to NBA without the influence the ABA contributed- no dunks, 3 point plays or no look passes.... boring, and lesser quality. My heritage has baseball contributed Jim Thorpe, Joel Youngblood,Chief Knockhoma and a few team names. Pretty poor contribution in 5000 years of occupying the territory. Chico is kicking my azz there.