First Games of Series/Homestand

[tzill]

No Actually you DID both when you said "Let's say that's true. How does that differ from Dunning-Kruger?" when I suggested others in a more knowledgeable position than I where making similar assumptions.

Dunning–Kruger undertook a number of studies to support their theory based on students test results and logical reasoning and their opinions of their own competency - The more I look at the studies and how they were conducted the more irrelevant I think the theory is to this discussion. An assertion I am sure you could dismiss under the theory itself.

Simply dismissing the comments and opinions of individuals and or groups via the Dunning-Kruger effect was never the point of the research or theory.

Fair enough. Let me restate: MOST of these so-called "experts" are in no better position than you or I vis-a-vis knowledge of the actual clubhouse. There are some, no doubt.

And the point of D-K was to illuminate a form of confirmation bias. A confirmation bias that originates from ignorance. It applies pretty well to the topic at hand, if you substitute the word "information" for "skill" in the theory.

Again, feel free to posit your opinions -- you seem like a bright dude who likes the Giants. That's always welcome here.

 

[calsnowskier]

Your lead is quite safe, now. You have even passed Cal, right? We're not worthy! We're not worthy!

My rep whoring skills def need some work. :-(

 

[filosofy29]

Good stuff Ozzie and tzill; way to keep it civil. The Giants are already torturing us enough, no need to take it out on each other too.

 

[SFAnthem]

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hahah - gif skills!

 

[SFAnthem]

Fair enough. Let me restate: MOST of these so-called "experts" are in no better position than you or I vis-a-vis knowledge of the actual clubhouse. There are some, no doubt.

And the point of D-K was to illuminate a form of confirmation bias. A confirmation bias that originates from ignorance. It applies pretty well to the topic at hand, if you substitute the word "information" for "skill" in the theory.

Again, feel free to posit your opinions -- you seem like a bright dude who likes the Giants. That's always welcome here.

hey! What about us knuckle draggers that also happen to like the Giants? :pb:

 

[SFAnthem]

As an ignorant outsider, I agree wholeheartedly.

However, as I stated earlier, I think it was a good idea to send Belt down at the time he was (the first time). Not only was he figuratively on his heals, Huff was REALLY hurting the team in the OF with his D.

Remember all those "Would Huff have gotten that?" comments?

Huff's outfield defense cannot be ignored as part of the Belt equation.

I believe the Braves were looking to fill the 1B job and he happened to blossomed nicely.

On this team, getting Belt playing time was going to be at a detriment to another position.

 

[SFAnthem]

Arizona down 4-0 in the 6th against the nats

UGA, you're starting to root for the Giants now just a little.....aren't ya?

ugagiantsfan6612?

 

[OzzieGiant]

Huff's outfield defense cannot be ignored as part of the Belt equation.

I believe the Braves were looking to fill the 1B job and he happened to blossomed nicely.

On this team, getting Belt playing time was going to be at a detriment to another position.

I guess another factor for me is the seemingly overestimation of veteran presence as a THE key factor in a winning team. I can hear BB and Sabes telling Sir Alex that 'you can't win anything with kids'.

Veterans who contribute are fantastic, ones that don't are merely taking up roster spots. I think I am starting to fall for the conspiracy that Sabes ego is forcing the playing of those that he has overpaid. I have tried to resist but am weakening every time Rowand is the starting lineup.

 

[Stokes1931]

Huff's outfield defense cannot be ignored as part of the Belt equation.

I believe the Braves were looking to fill the 1B job and he happened to blossomed nicely.

On this team, getting Belt playing time was going to be at a detriment to another position.

Agree with all of it. My point was that both Freeman and Belt put up similar stats to begin the season. Freeman developed nicely because he was given an opportunity, Belt was not, so who knows what might have been?

Once Huff was signed, the Belt as first baseman experiment was over. Frankly, I would not have signed Huff, with his career long good-bad-good-bad alternating years. But after being a key leader in the World Series win last season, there was no way NOT to sign him.

Huff, Ross and Torres have severely declined this season, perhaps suffering under the weight of expectations. A team can only be a band of misfits once, after that, there is a target on their backs. Sure seems the collar size has shrunk for those guys. And we weren't really expecting MiggE6 to do much, were we?

Still, having Belt in LF might not be terrible. He has wheels, throws well, and we need his bat.

The pitching, aside from BZ and Janchez, has been stellar. And that has held the team together.

I guess the frustrating part is to seemingly have the expectations set so high, and then see how poorly this offense has performed. This is almost historic ineptitude. :target:

But this is the team we have, and despite my throwing Molotov Cocktails at every turn, I am still rooting for them with heart and soul.

All in all, in spite of a seemingly endless parade of injuries to key players, we are only one game out. Should be an interesting finish to the season.

:ss:

 

[SFAnthem]

Agree with all of it. My point was that both Freeman and Belt put up similar stats to begin the season. Freeman developed nicely because he was given an opportunity, Belt was not, so who knows what might have been?

Once Huff was signed, the Belt as first baseman experiment was over. Frankly, I would not have signed Huff, with his career long good-bad-good-bad alternating years. But after being a key leader in the World Series win last season, there was no way NOT to sign him.

Huff, Ross and Torres have severely declined this season, perhaps suffering under the weight of expectations. A team can only be a band of misfits once, after that, there is a target on their backs. Sure seems the collar size has shrunk for those guys. And we weren't really expecting MiggE6 to do much, were we?

Still, having Belt in LF might not be terrible. He has wheels, throws well, and we need his bat.

The pitching, aside from BZ and Janchez, has been stellar. And that has held the team together.

I guess the frustrating part is to seemingly have the expectations set so high, and then see how poorly this offense has performed. This is almost historic ineptitude. :target:

But this is the team we have, and despite my throwing Molotov Cocktails at every turn, I am still rooting for them with heart and soul.

All in all, in spite of a seemingly endless parade of injuries to key players, we are only one game out. Should be an interesting finish to the season.

:ss:

I wanted Huff, Torres, and Ross to start on this team
I didn't know much of Belt other than he was gaining a lot of momentum from last year and that he was mlb-ready earlier than expected.

But now that I've seen him and been so sorely disgusted with some of the at bats the vets have given the Giants this year, it's a crime he's not given his shot *his injury was a setback and shouldn't be held against Giants FO.

As far as frustration goes, I don't know if I've cursed out a playoff contending Giants team as much as I've had this year. Even their wins leave me emotionally spent.

You're packing molotov cocktails for the stretch run? I'll light em, you chuck em.

 

[Heathbar012]

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Awesome. That certainly is the typical Wazzou fan.

 

[msgkings322]

I guess another factor for me is the seemingly overestimation of veteran presence as a THE key factor in a winning team. I can hear BB and Sabes telling Sir Alex that 'you can't win anything with kids'.

Veterans who contribute are fantastic, ones that don't are merely taking up roster spots. I think I am starting to fall for the conspiracy that Sabes ego is forcing the playing of those that he has overpaid. I have tried to resist but am weakening every time Rowand is the starting lineup.

I think there has to be some ego in it, and some reluctance on the part of the brass to just write off Zito and Rowand as hits to capital. They really should be DFA'd or traded where we pick up most of the $. But they keep hoping against hope they will at least be somewhat useful.

With Rowand, they look at his splits and start him vs lefties. With Zito, it's really only this year that I think he has to go. Before this we all (correctly I think) viewed Zito as a decent to good 5th starter, certainly better than the average 5th starter. Didn't make the $ any better but at least he wasn't hurting the team or blocking anyone. Now, I think they have a big choice to make. He clearly does hurt the team when he takes the ball.

GM-ing ain't easy.

 

[SF11704]

I think that GM-ing is easy for anyone not a GM! No one can hold our feet to the fire and it's very easy to look at the situation AFTER it's happened. Easy to point out things we could have done after we know the result.
From a field manager's perspective you have to take in to account a player's history. If you have a career 270 hitter floating around 240 you have to feel that he'll find his swing sooner or later. History states he's a 270 hitter. That's why I think we see Huff, Ross and Rowand much more then we want to. It also expains Torres. Think it was MSG who already stated "Torres is what we see today. Last year was the EXCEPTION".

Easy looking back into the past. Not sure what we'd all be saying (with 40 games left) if Belt went 3 for his next 40 ABs and we sat Huff and Ross and Scheiroltz during that time to get him the ABs. Not sure as a GM I'd be willing to take that gamble - at least not at this point in the season.

We all thought they'd be playoff bound this year. I actually thought they woukld be close to a lock for the division. Never considered injuries of this magnitude. Thought Beltran wouyld push us over the top. He goes down with an injury.

very frustrating year

 

[the_broom]

I think that GM-ing is easy for anyone not a GM! No one can hold our feet to the fire and it's very easy to look at the situation AFTER it's happened. Easy to point out things we could have done after we know the result.
From a field manager's perspective you have to take in to account a player's history. If you have a career 270 hitter floating around 240 you have to feel that he'll find his swing sooner or later. History states he's a 270 hitter. That's why I think we see Huff, Ross and Rowand much more then we want to. It also expains Torres. Think it was MSG who already stated "Torres is what we see today. Last year was the EXCEPTION".

Easy looking back into the past. Not sure what we'd all be saying (with 40 games left) if Belt went 3 for his next 40 ABs and we sat Huff and Ross and Scheiroltz during that time to get him the ABs. Not sure as a GM I'd be willing to take that gamble - at least not at this point in the season.

We all thought they'd be playoff bound this year. I actually thought they woukld be close to a lock for the division. Never considered injuries of this magnitude. Thought Beltran wouyld push us over the top. He goes down with an injury.

very frustrating year

It has been a tough year...and I was also sure the team would be better than last years team. I wasn't expecting another WS win....but I felt the team was better and could compete with anyone. Who would have seen all the injuries...and all the underperforming?

 

[msgkings322]

I think that GM-ing is easy for anyone not a GM! No one can hold our feet to the fire and it's very easy to look at the situation AFTER it's happened. Easy to point out things we could have done after we know the result.
From a field manager's perspective you have to take in to account a player's history. If you have a career 270 hitter floating around 240 you have to feel that he'll find his swing sooner or later. History states he's a 270 hitter. That's why I think we see Huff, Ross and Rowand much more then we want to. It also expains Torres. Think it was MSG who already stated "Torres is what we see today. Last year was the EXCEPTION".

Easy looking back into the past. Not sure what we'd all be saying (with 40 games left) if Belt went 3 for his next 40 ABs and we sat Huff and Ross and Scheiroltz during that time to get him the ABs. Not sure as a GM I'd be willing to take that gamble - at least not at this point in the season.

We all thought they'd be playoff bound this year. I actually thought they woukld be close to a lock for the division. Never considered injuries of this magnitude. Thought Beltran wouyld push us over the top. He goes down with an injury.

very frustrating year

Exactly. Before Posey went down we were I think a lock for the division, and I doubt you'd find anyone to disagree. We were supposed to battle it out with Colorado.

Injuries are the whole story for us this year, and it's part of why the game is so fun, so unpredictable. If we get healthy (as much as we can be without Posey and Franchez) and make the playoffs (looks like we will...) we might actually make some noise. With our pitching we always have a shot.

If we do make the playoffs I think it will be one of the best jobs of team management ever. Think about it.

 

[tzill]

Good stuff Ozzie and tzill; way to keep it civil. The Giants are already torturing us enough, no need to take it out on each other too.

Ozzie is a good cat, and a bright fan. I've got no problems with those kind of dudes. Plus, he loves the Giants...it's all good:smile:

 

[tzill]

hey! What about us knuckle draggers that also happen to like the Giants? :pb:

Sigh....you guys are welcome too, I guess.....

 

[ColinCoby]

Agree with all of it. My point was that both Freeman and Belt put up similar stats to begin the season. Freeman developed nicely because he was given an opportunity, Belt was not, so who knows what might have been?

Once Huff was signed, the Belt as first baseman experiment was over. Frankly, I would not have signed Huff, with his career long good-bad-good-bad alternating years. But after being a key leader in the World Series win last season, there was no way NOT to sign him.

Huff, Ross and Torres have severely declined this season, perhaps suffering under the weight of expectations. A team can only be a band of misfits once, after that, there is a target on their backs. Sure seems the collar size has shrunk for those guys. And we weren't really expecting MiggE6 to do much, were we?

Still, having Belt in LF might not be terrible. He has wheels, throws well, and we need his bat.

The pitching, aside from BZ and Janchez, has been stellar. And that has held the team together.

I guess the frustrating part is to seemingly have the expectations set so high, and then see how poorly this offense has performed. This is almost historic ineptitude. :target:

But this is the team we have, and despite my throwing Molotov Cocktails at every turn, I am still rooting for them with heart and soul.

All in all, in spite of a seemingly endless parade of injuries to key players, we are only one game out. Should be an interesting finish to the season.

:ss:

Another nice one...and NOW I can rep you.

 

[jimsan15]

I am not sure all these ‘people’ are either unskilled or that they’re reaching erroneous conclusions–

Your assumption that all people commenting on the Giants and or Belt not names BB or Sabean fit under the theory of Dunning–Kruger effect in itself might suggests a level of Narcissistic personality disorder where in your world only BB and Sabes are skilled enough to be right and you are one of the few capable of seeing it.

Dunning–Kruger is a often abused study used to deflect criticism of one’s work or beliefs and to deny the beliefs and opinions of others.

Anyway - I want to see more Belt and less Rowand, Ross, DeRosa and the statute twins - if that makes me unskilled and delusional so be it.

Wow! You nailed it.

 

[tzill]

Wow! You nailed it.

No, he didn't. He misunderstands D-K.