Fales

[anotheridiot]

You have to wobder why Fales nade it past waivers if he is a starter to be......31 teams passed on him for one reson or another.

The bears felt it was important enough to keep him on the active roster for game 1, allowed teams to set their practice squads and their choices to be the QB in training, did not waive him til before game 2 when very few teams are going to make a move.

 

[richig07]

David Fales is our answer?

Jesus... I've heard it all.

I mean, to say you're interested in seeing him. Fine... I think we all are curious. However, to say so assuredly that you believe this nobody out of San Jose State, that has never played an NFL down is our answer. I mean, get a grip.

 

[anotheridiot]

David Fales is our answer?

Jesus... I've heard it all.

I mean, to say you're interested in seeing him. Fine... I think we all are curious. However, to say so assuredly that you believe this nobody out of San Jose State, that has never played an NFL down is our answer. I mean, get a grip.

Lose with Claussen, lose with Fales, at least you learn something with Fales, even if he is #2 behind Jay and you dont have to pay 3 million to someone else.

Last exhibition game he seemed like he understood what they are trying to do. Fales knows his limitations, does not think he can get every pass thru the arms of d linemen or squeeze it in a tiny window. Its the classic dont take chances to take chances argument that never ends.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

posted this on the main board a few weeks ago...it fits here now:
Let's go back 10 drafts: Who are these Franchise saving QB's that were drafted in the first round? How many of them actually worked out? How many still have question marks? How many are even still active?
2006:
Vince Young- FPC OUT OF LEAGUE
Matt Lienart- FPC OUT OF LEAGUE
Jay Cutler (<oh the Horror!!) Legit Starter
2007:
JaMarcus Russell (ha)- FPC (Former #1 pick) OUT OF LEAGUE
Brady Quinn- FPC OUT OF LEAGUE
2008:
Matt Ryan- Legit Starter.
Joe Flacco- Legit Starter. Flacco had one really good playoff run. He's decent.
2009:
Mathew Stafford-(#1 pick) Legit Starter who throws too many picks.
Mark Sanchez- Serviceable when not butt fumbling. NOT a starter 3rd team... what team now?
Josh Freeman- FPC OUT OF LEAGUE
2010:
Sam Bradford- (#1 pick) We think he's a legit starter- but injuries leave him Questionable
Tim Tebow- ha FPC OUT OF LEAGUE
2011:
Cam Newton-(#1 pick) Legit Starter
Jake Locker- OUT OF THE LEAGUE
Blaine Gabbert- FPC
Christian Ponder- FPC
2012:
Andrew Luck-(#1 pick) Franchise QB
Robert Griffin III- We think he may be a serviceable starter, but he's hurt a lot too and now lost job.
Ryan Tannehill- Legit Starter
Brandon Weeden- FPC
2013:
EJ Manuel- FPC now 3rd string
2014:
Blake Bortles- Questions still unanswered.
Johnny Manziel- LOTS of questions- beat out by a guy with a 1-10 record last year.
Teddy Bridgewater- Legit Starter after one season.
2015:
Jameis Winston-(#1 pick) Rookie Questions
Marcus Mariota- Rookie Questions

26 Quarterbacks taken in the past 10 drafts in the first round. How many are "Franchise QB's" vs legit starters vs Serviceable spot starter vs Still Question Mark OR Flaming Pile of Crap or "FPC"?

For these percentages I'm going with the 24- as Jameis and Marcus have yet to play a game...
7 of them are OUT OF THE LEAGUE. 29% (Young, Lienert, Russell, Quinn, Freeman, Tebow, Locker)
4 are Questionable 17% (Manziel, Bortels, Griffin, Bradford)
5 are Flaming Piles of Crap or Non-starters 20% (Weeden, Manuel, Gabbert, Ponder, Sanchez)
7 are Legit starters. 29% (Bridgewater, Newton, Tannehill, Stafford, Ryan, Flacco, Cutler)
1 is a Bonafide "Franchise QB" 4% (Andrew Luck)

So based on the past 10 DRAFTS. If you are looking to get a QB for your team in the first round you only have a 33% chance he's going to be a long term legit starter. (and you needed a #1 pick on three of them)
It's more likely (67% likely) that your first round pick QB will have question marks, be flaming piles of crap (that you'll replace again anyway) or be out of the league in a few years.

Regardless if your looking at this as a Jay Cutler hating Bears fans or whatever team you cheer for and your Quarterbacking needs... Drafting a first round QB is dangerous. "Tank for the Draft" Nah... I'd rather see them play hard, get some wins to boost team morale and keep the machine in a positive direction. (losing 12+ games isn't good for anybody) Winning 7 or 8 and being in contention for most games is a much better indicator of future success. IMO
Spend that top 10-14 pick on an Offensive or Defensive lineman... Get better. And go find a QB in later rounds.
NOTE: I have not looked closely at next years potential 1st round QB's... but from what I've seen- it's more of the same. There just isn't anymore Peyton Manning's or Andrew Luck's out there.

Today (2 weeks into season Jay out 2 weeks+) a solid Oline/Dline you have a much better chance of winning with a middle of the road QB... then you do with a good/great QB with bad Oline/Dline. Look at Luck the first two weeks the season.

I don't really care about those stats. I think a better way of looking at it is where were all the superstar QBs taken and for the majority of superstar QBs were taken in the first round. Manning, Rodgers, and Luck are three of the top five QBs and they were taken in the first. I think the Question is would you rather take a QB in the first round with an outside shot of him becoming a superstar QB, or continue taking QBs late and almost assure your team of never getting one. Russell Wilsons and Tom Bradys are few and far between. Atleast if you don't get a top QB in the first round, you still have a shot at a good one like Ryan, Flacco, or Cam. Anyone can bust. In fact I'll bet if you did your analysis on other positions you would find a lot of early picks at every position were busts as well.

 

[NCChiFan]

First of all, I would say there are least 2 that may meet the criteria of "somewhat worthy" from last year's draft alone, in Carr and Bridgewater, and possibly one or two others.

I guess it depends on the meaning of the word "decent." I'd use it to suggest a QB that not only starts but in theory has at least an outside chance of leading a team that otherwise is good enough to get to a SB, then I would list all of the following since 2009 that could do that (ignoring the 2014 and 2015 picks, since for now it's too easy to debate and too hard to actually know anything yet):

Tannehill
Luck
Wilson
Newton
Kaepernick (he did, let's not forget, come within one series of terrible play calls from winning a SB)
Stafford

and very debatably Bradford (if he could stay healthy) and Dalton.

In 5 years of drafts, that's 6-8 guys. Not 2.

The idea of a "minor league" would definitely help develop more QBs, but as it is now look at how awful the main event has become due to the shortened training camps. This is the worst 2 weeks of football I can ever remember. It's horrible. I don't ever remember seeing so many basic screwups...did any of you happen to see that appalling Dallas-Philly game? My God. Watching the Seattle offensive line is excruciating....and I don't even like Seattle. This is a direct result of shortened training camps. While a minor leagues would certainly help improve the play level, given how paranoid both the league and players are about adding more practice time and getting more potential health lawsuits down the road, I don't see it happening.

I have real issues with Kaepernick. He doesn't deserve to be on that list. What got the 49rs to the playoffs was the D. Kaepernick is not a team leading type QB, I don't think he's serviceable as even a starter. He runs a lot, so substitute tim tebow, same result, almost (Kaepernick has a better arm, I know). I know that's mincing stats, I know he beat the Pack twice, I'm just not impressed with him.

Newton is a lot like Kaepernick. Not impressed with his pocket passing abilities either. Romo, Jay, Rivers, Flacco, Rothlesburger, rodgers, wilson, luck, stafford, Mannings, Brady, Palmer are all better.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

David Fales is our answer?

Jesus... I've heard it all.

I mean, to say you're interested in seeing him. Fine... I think we all are curious. However, to say so assuredly that you believe this nobody out of San Jose State, that has never played an NFL down is our answer. I mean, get a grip.

I think Fales has the mental ability to play on this level and be a leader of men. I would like to see what he has to offer rather then watch Clauson, who we already know is not the answer. I strongly feel he just gets it. I don't care what school he went too and I don't care what round he was drafted. I fully understand that I am putting it out there and it's a longshot. Don't care. It's what I believe. I don't need anyone to believe with me, I come to my own conclusions for my own reasons. If I'm proven wrong then feel free to let me know, but I'm calling it now. Fales is the answer.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

I don't really care about those stats. I think a better way of looking at it is where were all the superstar QBs taken and for the majority of superstar QBs were taken in the first round. Manning, Rodgers, and Luck are three of the top five QBs and they were taken in the first. I think the Question is would you rather take a QB in the first round with an outside shot of him becoming a superstar QB, or continue taking QBs late and almost assure your team of never getting one. Russell Wilsons and Tom Bradys are few and far between. Atleast if you don't get a top QB in the first round, you still have a shot at a good one like Ryan, Flacco, or Cam. Anyone can bust. In fact I'll bet if you did your analysis on other positions you would find a lot of early picks at every position were busts as well.

I can agree... Drafting is always a crap shoot. You never really know. I guess my point is that taking a first round QB is almost as risky as taking a 2nd or 3rd rounder. And drafting almost any other position can help you on special teams until they mature into NFL starter.
I guess the Bears have to figure out two things:

1. Can they survive with Jay for another year or two... use higher draft picks (1 &2 rounds) to help fill the full roster/lines. Draft QB in 3rd if one is there... hope for future success as QB2 sits behind Jay. Thus creating a better overall team roster and permitting 2nd or 3rd year drafted QB to come into a better overall situation when he starts.

OR

2. Use the first round Draft pick on best QB available and hope he's not one of the 67% that fail. Ship off Jay leaving Rookie QB to start with this same Oline/Defense and live with the growing pains of unexperienced QB and hope for the best, while still trying to improve the defense.

Jay Cutler will have been paid. He's still to get $10M next year and his yearly salary isn't peanuts, but the guaranteed money will be off the books. The salary cap will continue to rise and high priced players like Jared Allen & Matt Forte will come off the books. There really isn't any other cap hogs after this year. (I'm sure someone will point out somebody) And I'm sure they will sign a high priced FA each of the next two years to fill some gaps... and release some others that will create room. We have so many one year deals now, they have to make moves anyway.
No idea what they are thinking on Alshon Jeffery or what he's going to get or ask for. Or if they will resign Forte (or if that's wise)

I say with Option #1 you can help your team, Kevin White will play someday. Use first round pick on top defensive player, 2nd round top Oline (left tackle?) 3rd round QB... Just makes more sense to me.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I have real issues with Kaepernick. He doesn't deserve to be on that list. What got the 49rs to the playoffs was the D. Kaepernick is not a team leading type QB, I don't think he's serviceable as even a starter. He runs a lot, so substitute tim tebow, same result, almost (Kaepernick has a better arm, I know). I know that's mincing stats, I know he beat the Pack twice, I'm just not impressed with him.

Newton is a lot like Kaepernick. Not impressed with his pocket passing abilities either. Romo, Jay, Rivers, Flacco, Rothlesburger, rodgers, wilson, luck, stafford, Mannings, Brady, Palmer are all better.

NC, I can understand your point. He definitely has problems, I'm definitely not going to sit here and tell you he is a great QB. But clearly - CLEARLY he was good enough to win a Super Bowl. Which was the criteria I laid down. Can the QB - with other pieces in place - potentially win you a Super Bowl. In that sense, you can't argue with history. He did nothing remarkable with his arm in the SB run, but he did one thing really well: he avoided mistakes. If you aren't a great QB, you have to do that, and at least at that point, he did. I don't know the exact causes of Kaep's slight regressions, but there are a lot of theories as to why, such as ego. Regardless, if nothing else, he has shown that he had it in him. I'm not going to tell you that you should be impressed with him. But they would have won that game if Jim Harbaugh didn't suffer a play calling meltdown at the end there.

Our problem is we have a guy who we know won't get us to that point, mainly due to his errors, which in the playoffs is death poison. I mean, it is freaking obvious. In a way, Cutler and Kaepernick have a lot in common. Both very strong armed QBs, with accuracy and decision issues, who were on teams that otherwise had very similar rosters: great defenses, great running games, shitty WRs. I'm obviously not talking last 2 years of defenses or WRs, but when Cutler was here early he had great defenses, and we even had great Special Teams that the 49ers did not have. And zilch.

Or we can just keep trying this, for another several years. I'm not under the impression this front office has that patience, whatever you or I think. The 2016 draft may be a good time for a shot at it.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

I mean, it is freaking obvious.

There's that thrown in negative filler again. Always clever, that one.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

I can agree... Drafting is always a crap shoot. You never really know. I guess my point is that taking a first round QB is almost as risky as taking a 2nd or 3rd rounder. And drafting almost any other position can help you on special teams until they mature into NFL starter.
I guess the Bears have to figure out two things:

1. Can they survive with Jay for another year or two... use higher draft picks (1 &2 rounds) to help fill the full roster/lines. Draft QB in 3rd if one is there... hope for future success as QB2 sits behind Jay. Thus creating a better overall team roster and permitting 2nd or 3rd year drafted QB to come into a better overall situation when he starts.

OR

2. Use the first round Draft pick on best QB available and hope he's not one of the 67% that fail. Ship off Jay leaving Rookie QB to start with this same Oline/Defense and live with the growing pains of unexperienced QB and hope for the best, while still trying to improve the defense.

Jay Cutler will have been paid. He's still to get $10M next year and his yearly salary isn't peanuts, but the guaranteed money will be off the books. The salary cap will continue to rise and high priced players like Jared Allen & Matt Forte will come off the books. There really isn't any other cap hogs after this year. (I'm sure someone will point out somebody) And I'm sure they will sign a high priced FA each of the next two years to fill some gaps... and release some others that will create room. We have so many one year deals now, they have to make moves anyway.
No idea what they are thinking on Alshon Jeffery or what he's going to get or ask for. Or if they will resign Forte (or if that's wise)

I say with Option #1 you can help your team, Kevin White will play someday. Use first round pick on top defensive player, 2nd round top Oline (left tackle?) 3rd round QB... Just makes more sense to me.

I think you are off point. I want pace to draft the guy he thinks will help this team most. If he doesn't like the QB class, then don't be forced into taking one first round if we have the first pick. If he likesa QB then do whatever it is to select him. I don't think anyone should be basing who they draft off of the success others have had at that position. They should just select the guy that can help the team most. That is mostly BPA, but also takes position into consideration. You're getting to hooked into strategy from a position point of view. Until you can put a face and resume to each position it is all moot.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

I think you are off point. I want pace to draft the guy he thinks will help this team most. If he doesn't like the QB class, then don't be forced into taking one first round if we have the first pick. If he likesa QB then do whatever it is to select him. I don't think anyone should be basing who they draft off of the success others have had at that position. They should just select the guy that can help the team most. That is mostly BPA, but also takes position into consideration. You're getting to hooked into strategy from a position point of view. Until you can put a face and resume to each position it is all moot.

I agree... I'm not trying to argue with you. And you're right that we need to have a face and resume of that first round pick until we can make a judgement, but when you're talking about the future face of your franchise you can't miss. While missing on a first round Linebacker, Safety or line position... isn't great, those guys can contribute to your team and work themselves into functional pieces even if they don't turn into franchise makers. You do that with a QB and he sits...or worse plays himself out of the league with crap around him your franchise is going to be waiting MUCH longer for a winner.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I think you are off point. I want pace to draft the guy he thinks will help this team most. If he doesn't like the QB class, then don't be forced into taking one first round if we have the first pick. If he likesa QB then do whatever it is to select him. I don't think anyone should be basing who they draft off of the success others have had at that position. They should just select the guy that can help the team most. That is mostly BPA, but also takes position into consideration. You're getting to hooked into strategy from a position point of view. Until you can put a face and resume to each position it is all moot.

Well, yes, dead on. I am of the opinion that "BPA among positions of need" is the way to go, not pure BPA. Although in the case of the Bears, it is sometimes hard to tell the difference. But in any case, that's better than drafting by pure need, which is a recipe for permanent mediocrity.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

And I'll probably get crap for this...but
Players drafted at certain points in the draft or by certain teams will greatly impact their success.
I know Aaron Rodgers is an All World QB. And at this point he's proven...but what if he WAS picked #1 by San Fran and started day one... and had 5 OC's in 5 years and the multiple HC's ... and endured everything that Alex Smith did? Instead of having that time to sit behind Favre, be brought into a decent team, and have the same head coach his whole career. Rodgers has said many times that he continues to think of that draft as a chip on his shoulder, what if he didn't have that chip?

Obviously it's easy to scoff at that and say Aaron Rodgers makes guys around him better...sure he does...now. What about then? Something we'll never know.
What if Jay Cutler was drafted by GB and sat behind Favre and had the same HC his whole career? Would he be the same?

 

[LoftonPack80]

And I'll probably get crap for this...but
Players drafted at certain points in the draft or by certain teams will greatly impact their success.
I know Aaron Rodgers is an All World QB. And at this point he's proven...but what if he WAS picked #1 by San Fran and started day one... and had 5 OC's in 5 years and the multiple HC's ... and endured everything that Alex Smith did? Instead of having that time to sit behind Favre, be brought into a decent team, and have the same head coach his whole career. Rodgers has said many times that he continues to think of that draft as a chip on his shoulder, what if he didn't have that chip?

Obviously it's easy to scoff at that and say Aaron Rodgers makes guys around him better...sure he does...now. What about then? Something we'll never know.
What if Jay Cutler was drafted by GB and sat behind Favre and had the same HC his whole career? Would he be the same?

Rodgers is Smith if that happened. Neither of those guys were ready to start he was the lucky one who got to sit and learn. That's a huge problem with QB development now teams throw these guys in the fire...couple that with fewer and fewer actual pro style QBs because it's all read option and spread offenses now in college. It's going to get tougher and tougher to get that guy in the draft

 

[nebearsfan70]

plain and simple... the Bears will not get "that guy" in the draft. QB has always been the position that alludes this team, and with a #1 pick looming and no quality QBs in the mix, this off season is no different.

 

[NCChiFan]

Well, yes, dead on. I am of the opinion that "BPA among positions of need" is the way to go, not pure BPA. Although in the case of the Bears, it is sometimes hard to tell the difference. But in any case, that's better than drafting by pure need, which is a recipe for permanent mediocrity.

Problem with BPA in a position of need is that right now... we have a LOT of positions of need. LT, Guard, LB across the board, CB or 2, Safety or 2.

 

[richig07]

Lose with Claussen, lose with Fales, at least you learn something with Fales, even if he is #2 behind Jay and you dont have to pay 3 million to someone else.

Last exhibition game he seemed like he understood what they are trying to do. Fales knows his limitations, does not think he can get every pass thru the arms of d linemen or squeeze it in a tiny window. Its the classic dont take chances to take chances argument that never ends.

I 100% agree that you might as well take a look at Fales, I am not disputing that.

I am simply saying that saying so confidently that you know David F'ing Fales is the answer to all of these franchise's problems, is utterly ludicrous. Why? Because he was good in a 4th pre-season game? Do you know who else was FANTASTIC on a consistent basis in the pre-season? Caleb Hanie. Never failed to impress and make highlight reel plays in pre-season. He redefined, the term "AWFUL".

From what I've seen from Fales, is that he does not have a great feel in the pocket under pressure, he does not have a very strong arm and he will be absolutely exposed the first time he sees real NFL action.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Yeah, I mean now that no one truly expects anything, let's see them have a little fun with this offense. Try out Fales. Or, how about this? Why don't we just see....just to see...how Kyle Long does at left tackle and put Bushrod on the right side? What's the worst that can happen? Fales or Clausen takes a couple of extra sacks?

 

[anotheridiot]

I 100% agree that you might as well take a look at Fales, I am not disputing that.

I am simply saying that saying so confidently that you know David F'ing Fales is the answer to all of these franchise's problems, is utterly ludicrous. Why? Because he was good in a 4th pre-season game? Do you know who else was FANTASTIC on a consistent basis in the pre-season? Caleb Hanie. Never failed to impress and make highlight reel plays in pre-season. He redefined, the term "AWFUL".

From what I've seen from Fales, is that he does not have a great feel in the pocket under pressure, he does not have a very strong arm and he will be absolutely exposed the first time he sees real NFL action.

Yeah, they said Bridgewater does not have a strong enough arm either, but look at the throws they are currently asking Jay to make, has there been many over 25 yards?

Just saying you never know until he plays against #1's on the other side, so just calling him a failure before he even gets the opportunity is also ludicrous. Thats bear football I guess, big name over learning what you might have.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

but look at the throws they are currently asking Jay to make, has there been many over 25 yards?

Arm strength is rarely measured in distance... Watch Rodgers, Favre, Elway... strong armed QB's that throw SHORT passes into tight windows, and the hash marks are closer together in the NFL- meaning the out breaking routes are longer throws. THAT's reason you want the rife arm as a QB. You only get what... 3-4 throws over 25 yards in a game anyway.