failed drug tests at combine

[JDM]

Exactly. A job isn't worth giving up your freedom.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So is their religion their business? Is their sex life? Being paid by someone doesn't mean they own you. Sure, you can sign away and give them the ability to drug test you, but why should you? There's a better job out there that stays out of shit that doesn't affect them.

religion, sexual preference, etc. are not illegal, and your employer cannot base their decision on your employment on these type of things. I'm sure some still do, but they just don't make it known.

drugs, on the other hand, are illegal, which is why employers are allowed to drug test candidates for jobs and terminate employment for failed drug tests. people have every right to believe it doesn't effect productivity, but the only people who don't think it changes a person productivity are the people using the drugs.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Exactly. A job isn't worth giving up your freedom.

Agreed -- no one is forcing you to work for a company that drug tests you. If you'd rather deliver newspapers and make minimum, so you can smoke weed and pop pills whenever you want. That is your right as an American.

It is also the right of an employer to take away your employment if being sober on the job isn't something you are interested in.

 

[JDM]

religion, sexual preference, etc. are not illegal, and your employer cannot base their decision on your employment on these type of things. I'm sure some still do, but they just don't make it known.

drugs, on the other hand, are illegal, which is why employers are allowed to drug test candidates for jobs and terminate employment for failed drug tests. people have every right to believe it doesn't effect productivity, but the only people who don't think it changes a person productivity are the people using the drugs.

I'm pointing out that it is terrible business practice and makes your business worse, not claiming it is illegal.

Agreed -- no one is forcing you to work for a company that drug tests you. If you'd rather deliver newspapers and make minimum, so you can smoke weed and pop pills whenever you want. That is your right as an American.

It is also the right of an employer to take away your employment if being sober on the job isn't something you are interested in.

I don't have to do that. Quality jobs don't waste time with petty bullshit. I never have and never will work somewhere that makes you piss in a cup. I would rather make 30k somewhere that stays the fuck out of my business than 100k somewhere that doesn't, even though in reality that trade off doesn't exist.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Exactly. A job isn't worth giving up your freedom.

If you can be as productive high as you can be when not high that should tell you a couple different things. First of all, you dont have a job where productivity matters. Second, your weed sucks. Third, get a life or a new job. If your dependence on being high is such that you need to do it before you go to work then you have a problem. Since weed isnt habit forming the problem must be that you are stupid and your job sucks so badly that you dont care if you lose it.

I couldnt productively flip burgers when I'm high. Drug test rules are a right afforded to employers. It's that simple and it doesnt take away any of your freedom. Last I checked the drug was illegal. It shouldnt be but it is. If you are trying to make an arguement that your freedom is being taken away its a ridiculous arguement. What is your counterpoint to the freedom robbing procedure of employer drug testing? That they have taken away your freedom to break the law. That's priceless.

Truth hit the nail on the head. He exercised his freedom to leave the employment of a company that had exercised their right to randomly drug test. If they in fact do drug test companies make it known that they do. You have the right to exercise your freedom in not taking that job or in risking your employment if you do choose to use banned drugs.

Thankfully my employer does not drug test. If they did I would stop immediately. As much as I regularly hate my job I would not be risking it.

 

[JDM]

If you can be as productive high as you can be when not high that should tell you a couple different things. First of all, you dont have a job where productivity matters. Second, your weed sucks. Third, get a life or a new job. If your dependence on being high is such that you need to do it before you go to work then you have a problem. Since weed isnt habit forming the problem must be that you are stupid and your job sucks so badly that you dont care if you lose it.

1. I have written tens to hundreds of thousands of hours of code high. In school it was consistently the best, most well designed, cleanest, and shortest (less code to do the same thing is much more maintainable by others, provided it is readable) of anyone in the program.
2. Medicinal quality.
3. I haven't smoked in a couple months. I have no dependence. It simply expands my mind so I can approach problems more abstractly.

I couldnt productively flip burgers when I'm high. Drug test rules are a right afforded to employers. It's that simple and it doesnt take away any of your freedom. Last I checked the drug was illegal. It shouldnt be but it is. If you are trying to make an arguement that your freedom is being taken away its a ridiculous arguement. What is your counterpoint to the freedom robbing procedure of employer drug testing? That they have taken away your freedom to break the law. That's priceless.

That's your problem, and one that is far from universal.

It's surrendering my freedom, and I won't do it. I'm not claiming they can't so so, just that they are passing on quality employees for no benefit.

Truth hit the nail on the head. He exercised his freedom to leave the employment of a company that had exercised their right to randomly drug test. If they in fact do drug test companies make it known that they do. You have the right to exercise your freedom in not taking that job or in risking your employment if you do choose to use banned drugs.

Thankfully my employer does not drug test. If they did I would stop immediately. As much as I regularly hate my job I would not be risking it.

"Right" is a little strong. You have to consent to it. All I am saying is that that trade off isn't close to worth it. I would easily piss clean today and still wouldn't even be willing to take the time to talk to someone who makes a job conditional on pissing in a cup. They could offer to double what I make and I'd tell them (politely) to go fuck themselves.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I'm pointing out that it is terrible business practice and makes your business worse.

Wow. That's an interesting position to take. It's a horrible arguement and not even close to correct but it sure is interesting. Got any data to back that up? Prove to me that an employee who is high is as productive when he/she is not and no more of a liability to themselves/co-workers/property or equipment?

Quality jobs don't waste time with petty bullshit.

They sure as hell do when it matters. Do you think iron workers walking around on steel girders are no less dangerous to themselves or anyone else when they are high? How about truck drivers? Surgeons? If one of your kids/loved ones were being operated on would you let them pick up the knife if they were high? Your arguement is that people are just as productive and its a waste of time to test them and makes your business worse. How much do you think the judgement against a hospital would be where a surgeon under the influence of drugs made a mistake and killed someone?

I never have and never will work somewhere that makes you piss in a cup. I would rather make 30k somewhere that stays the fuck out of my business than 100k somewhere that doesn't, even though in reality that trade off doesn't exist.

Welcome back to American bro. That's your right in a free country.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I don't have to do that. Quality jobs don't waste time with petty bullshit. I never have and never will work somewhere that makes you piss in a cup. I would rather make 30k somewhere that stays the fuck out of my business than 100k somewhere that doesn't, even though in reality that trade off doesn't exist.

That is your choice. More power to you. Personally, if my choice was 100k a year and a piss test, compared to 30k and no piss test. I'd just quit smoking weed. Over a 20 year period, you'd make 1.4 million more on the job with a piss test. After the 20 years, you can retire and smoke all the weed and whatever else you'd like.

At 30k a year -- you are going to be working til you die, as you won't be able to put any money away to retire.

 

[JDM]

They aren't allowed to do research on marijuana because our government is retarded. That doesn't change the fact that with the vast majority of smokers, you won't have a clue they smoke unless they tell you. Your perception is biased by the rare few that you are actually aware of, but they are the exception; not the rule.


I've stated (admittedly elsewhere) that safety concerns (while still generally unfounded) are a legitimate exception, simply for the fact that the misconceptions about most drugs would apply to a jury as well. But most jobs don't involve heavy machinery.

I would have zero issue with a surgeon being high while he operated on me or any loved one. If he is an accomplished surgeon that stands entirely on its own and what is in his body doesn't affect me in any way.

 

[Thruthefog]

If you can be as productive high as you can be when not high that should tell you a couple different things. First of all, you dont have a job where productivity matters. Second, your weed sucks. Third, get a life or a new job. If your dependence on being high is such that you need to do it before you go to work then you have a problem. Since weed isnt habit forming the problem must be that you are stupid and your job sucks so badly that you dont care if you lose it.

I couldnt productively flip burgers when I'm high. Drug test rules are a right afforded to employers. It's that simple and it doesnt take away any of your freedom. Last I checked the drug was illegal. It shouldnt be but it is. If you are trying to make an arguement that your freedom is being taken away its a ridiculous arguement. What is your counterpoint to the freedom robbing procedure of employer drug testing? That they have taken away your freedom to break the law. That's priceless.

Truth hit the nail on the head. He exercised his freedom to leave the employment of a company that had exercised their right to randomly drug test. If they in fact do drug test companies make it known that they do. You have the right to exercise your freedom in not taking that job or in risking your employment if you do choose to use banned drugs.

Thankfully my employer does not drug test. If they did I would stop immediately. As much as I regularly hate my job I would not be risking it.

Just for the record, I never smoke weed before going to work. In my mind, I'm trading my time for their money. If I'm not as productive as I can be, I feel as though that is stealing.

But what I do on my own time is none of their business.

I know the company I referred to above didn't fold because I wasn't there. But I also know that trucks are being held up at weigh stations, and their customers are receiving product they didn't order and not receiving product that they did.

And yes. If I needed the job, I wouldn't risk it either.

 

[gandydancer]

My roommate was dating the manager's daughter and one weekend he invited him to our Sunday cookout. He probably saw me smoking weed and decided to 'randomly' drug test me. I knew I couldn't pass the test but took it anyway because back then it took a couple weeks to get the results, and I wanted to enjoy the work I was doing for a little longer.

A couple of weeks later I was called into the office. After informing me of what I already knew, they started to tell me about the rahab, weekly drug tests, etc. I interrupted them and said, "I'm not going through all that. I show up to work everyday, on time, and I work when I get here." They replied that they knew that, but this is the procedure. I replied adioose motherfuckers. Actually, I was respectful, but that was what I was thinking.

I was manager at the factory before rail road. Plant manager was smug prick. Always harped on my best stockhandler. Then one day called him a "druggie"... I asked why? He said he saw him getting high on the lake. I said weekend use is different than at work. He disagreed... so I told him 2 months ago at the Mio allnighter ball tourney at 3 in morning I got stoned. Told him I had not been stoned for over a year and not since that night. I asked does that make me a druggie or just a guy that chose his God given right as a adult to get high on my free time? He said " not at all". He walked out of my office when I asked ...then why is Billy?

Needless to say I did not partake until he left...

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

That's your problem, and one that is far from universal.

Prove it or shut up. It's that simple. What you think you can and cant do isnt proof. Back it up with imperical evidence based on scientific study. I am certain it has been done. Go find me evidence and I will recant what I've said with an apology.

It's surrendering my freedom, and I won't do it.

To break the law? That's the freedom you are surrendering? Just how stupid do you think that arguement sounds?

They could offer to double what I make and I'd tell them (politely) to go fuck themselves.

Well that ought to just about sum up any debate as to whether anything you say from here on out merits any consideration as being worth reading. Thanks for playing.

 

[JDM]

That is your choice. More power to you. Personally, if my choice was 100k a year and a piss test, compared to 30k and no piss test. I'd just quit smoking weed. Over a 20 year period, you'd make 1.4 million more on the job with a piss test. After the 20 years, you can retire and smoke all the weed and whatever else you'd like.

At 30k a year -- you are going to be working til you die, as you won't be able to put any money away to retire.

I'll be making more than either of those numbers soon enough

It's not about not smoking. I could do that with zero issue and haven't smoked in a while. It's that my independence and privacy isn't for sale. I could have never touched a drug in my life and would still turn down selling my privacy.

 

[JDM]

Prove it or shut up. It's that simple. What you think you can and cant do isnt proof. Back it up with imperical evidence based on scientific study. I am certain it has been done. Go find me evidence and I will recant what I've said with an apology.

The study has not been done. The US has extremely strict restrictions on research with schedule 1 drugs and the vast majority of credible academic research is from the US.

To break the law? That's the freedom you are surrendering? Just how stupid do you think that arguement sounds?

To have people stay out of my body chemistry. The legality isn't a relevant factor. My body chemistry is no one's business but my own.

Well that ought to just about sum up any debate as to whether anything you say from here on out merits any consideration as being worth reading. Thanks for playing.

Because my privacy isn't for sale?

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

I would have zero issue with a surgeon being high while he operated on me or any loved one. If he is an accomplished surgeon that stands entirely on its own and what is in his body doesn't affect me in any way.

I have read some stupid comments during my tenure on message boards but this one is hands down the most truly fucking idiotic one I have ever seen.

Try to find me one other person anywhere on SportsHoopla that isnt simply a friend of yours that feels the same way. Seriously, find one.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I would have zero issue with a surgeon being high while he operated on me or any loved one. If he is an accomplished surgeon that stands entirely on its own and what is in his body doesn't affect me in any way.

I really hope you are kidding with this comment. You are trying to say if you were having life or death surgery -- you'd be fine with your surgeon being stoned while performing the procedure? I GUARANTEE you would not have the same opinion if you were actually put in that type of situation. And when you have kids, you are even more careful with who handles them. (My wife and I visited 10 different pediatricians before we found one we felt was qualified enough).

 

[JDM]

I have read some stupid comments during my tenure on message boards but this one is hands down the most truly fucking idiotic one I have ever seen.

Try to find me one other person anywhere on SportsHoopla that isnt simply a friend of yours that feels the same way. Seriously, find one.

Perception isn't reality. Reality is that it adds literally zero risk to me or my loved one.

 

[JDM]

I really hope you are kidding with this comment. You are trying to say if you were having life or death surgery -- you'd be fine with your surgeon being stoned while performing the procedure? I GUARANTEE you would not have the same opinion if you were actually put in that type of situation. And when you have kids, you are even more careful with who handles them. (My wife and I visited 10 different pediatricians before we found one we felt was qualified enough).

You think the guy just randomly is stoned one time for one surgery? Undoubtedly this is a regular occurrence, from when he started medical school until now, and he has demonstrated himself to be perfectly capable.


The reality is that nothing about marijuana has any impact on a doctor's ability to operate. It's not like alcohol where you lose motor skills or can get shakes. If anything, he's less stressed and more careful and I'm better off.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

My body chemistry is no one's business but my own.

Actually -- if you are going to alter your body's chemistry before coming to your job, then it absolutely is the business of the company that is paying you to work for them.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You think the guy just randomly is stoned one time for one surgery? Undoubtedly this is a regular occurrence, from when he started medical school until now, and he has demonstrated himself to be perfectly capable.


The reality is that nothing about marijuana has any impact on a doctor's ability to operate. It's not like alcohol where you lose motor skills or can get shakes. If anything, he's less stressed and more careful and I'm better off.

Marijuana is a wonder drug. It makes doctor's better at their job. I had no idea. Maybe they should make it a requirement.