Fact or Opinion

[SF11704]

Ok ... seen a lot of talk about our pen and their performance from June and July ... so I decided to look through all the box scores and provide some statistics ... you can decide how they did ....

Games - 35
Won - 23
Lost - 12 (10 losses for the SP and 2 losses for the RP .... but ... in 2 of the 10 losses by the SP ... the winning run was given up by a RP)

RP innings - 122
RR Runs Allowed - 44

 

[LHG]

Ok ... seen a lot of talk about our pen and their performance from June and July ... so I decided to look through all the box scores and provide some statistics ... you can decide how they did ....

Games - 35
Won - 23
Lost - 12 (10 losses for the SP and 2 losses for the RP .... but ... in 2 of the 10 losses by the SP ... the winning run was given up by a RP)

RP innings - 122
RR Runs Allowed - 44

Thanks for starting up this conversation. It made me decide to poke around on Fangraphs to see if I could compare bullpen performances from June 1st to July 11th. Here is what I've found:
Bullpen is first in ERA (2.54) in this timeframe.
1st place for fewest home runs allowed (8). Only the Marlins allowed less than 10 home runs in the same span.
1st place for fewest walks given (29). The Athletics were 2nd with 36.
1st place in lowest on base percentage against (.259). The Rays were 2nd with .274.
1st place in lowest slugging percentage against (.324), just .002 points ahead of the Marlins.
1st place in weighted on base percentage against (.253).
1st place in walks per 9 (2.0). The Nationals were 2nd with 3.1.
1st place in strikeouts to walks ratio (4.0). The Rays were 2nd with 3.5.
1st place in WHIP (0.98). The Rays were second with 1.07.
1st place in Fielding Independent Pitching (2.93). The Rays were in 2nd place with 3.07.
2nd place in BABIP (.253). The Cubs were first with .226
Tied for 2nd with the Astros for fewest runs scored (apparently, both the Brewers and Astros allowed fewer unearned runs).
3rd lowest in hits allowed (4 hits more than the Astros and 2 hits more than the Brewers).
4th place in batting average against (.210). The Rays were in first with .198 BAA.
Tied for 4th place, with the Indians, in expected fielding independent pitching (3.70). The Rays were in first with 3.21.
Tied for 14th, with the Cubs, for fewest doubles (22) given up.
21st place with runners stranded percentage (67.9%). 1st place was the Brewers with 84.5% and last place was the Diamondbacks with 61.6%
In 28th place for most strikeouts (117). The leader was the Rays with 177. The bottom team was the Athletics with 81.
Tied for last, with the Diamondbacks, for fewest triples (4) given up.

Fangraphs doesn't compare blown saves (at least, I cannot find how to compare them), so I cannot tell how the bullpen has done compared to the rest of the league. What I can tell you is that the bullpen went 8-2, and 12 for 15 in save opportunities, in this stretch. Three of the four blown saves ended in a win. The team's overall record was 23-12. That means that 10 of the 12 losses were on the starting rotation.

 

[tzill]

Thanks for the research. My sense is that the bullpen was really good in June, not so good in July. Also, the early season CPBS still stain the brain. 11 IIRC. That’s roughly two season’s worth.

 

[LHG]

Thanks for the research. My sense is that the bullpen was really good in June, not so good in July. Also, the early season CPBS still stain the brain. 11 IIRC. That’s roughly two season’s worth.

If you shorten the timeframe to only look at July, their numbers do drop to right around the middle.

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[SF11704]

Looking at LHGs findings you can see how well they looked from June 1st to July 12th but as Tzill indicated their are some questions . In June they played 25 games..89.2 innings and allowed 28 runs. Not bad at all. But in July they played 10 games ... 31.1 innings and allowed 16 runs. Not quite as good. Another interesting note ... they allowed 44 runs in total ... but 28 of those runs were in only 7 games. They've had their share of meltdowns.

They are not the same pen we had in April and May. That is a real good thing. The question is . ... will the pen perform like they did in June ...

 

[tzill]

Looking at LHGs findings you can see how well they looked from June 1st to July 12th but as Tzill indicated their are some questions . In June they played 25 games..89.2 innings and allowed 28 runs. Not bad at all. But in July they played 10 games ... 31.1 innings and allowed 16 runs. Not quite as good. Another interesting note ... they allowed 44 runs in total ... but 28 of those runs were in only 7 games. They've had their share of meltdowns.

They are not the same pen we had in April and May. That is a real good thing. The question is . ... will the pen perform like they did in June ...

Thanks. This confirms to my gut feeling about the bullpen. A disaster early, then it looked like it was fixed, now it’s leaking some oil. I don’t know if FZ is going to be able to add a RP by the deadline, so we may just need to hope for internal improvement.

 

[pachyderm]

Thanks for starting up this conversation. It made me decide to poke around on Fangraphs to see if I could compare bullpen performances from June 1st to July 11th. Here is what I've found:
Bullpen is first in ERA (2.54) in this timeframe.
1st place for fewest home runs allowed (8). Only the Marlins allowed less than 10 home runs in the same span.
1st place for fewest walks given (29). The Athletics were 2nd with 36.
1st place in lowest on base percentage against (.259). The Rays were 2nd with .274.
1st place in lowest slugging percentage against (.324), just .002 points ahead of the Marlins.
1st place in weighted on base percentage against (.253).
1st place in walks per 9 (2.0). The Nationals were 2nd with 3.1.
1st place in strikeouts to walks ratio (4.0). The Rays were 2nd with 3.5.
1st place in WHIP (0.98). The Rays were second with 1.07.
1st place in Fielding Independent Pitching (2.93). The Rays were in 2nd place with 3.07.
2nd place in BABIP (.253). The Cubs were first with .226
Tied for 2nd with the Astros for fewest runs scored (apparently, both the Brewers and Astros allowed fewer unearned runs).
3rd lowest in hits allowed (4 hits more than the Astros and 2 hits more than the Brewers).
4th place in batting average against (.210). The Rays were in first with .198 BAA.
Tied for 4th place, with the Indians, in expected fielding independent pitching (3.70). The Rays were in first with 3.21.
Tied for 14th, with the Cubs, for fewest doubles (22) given up.
21st place with runners stranded percentage (67.9%). 1st place was the Brewers with 84.5% and last place was the Diamondbacks with 61.6%
In 28th place for most strikeouts (117). The leader was the Rays with 177. The bottom team was the Athletics with 81.
Tied for last, with the Diamondbacks, for fewest triples (4) given up.

Fangraphs doesn't compare blown saves (at least, I cannot find how to compare them), so I cannot tell how the bullpen has done compared to the rest of the league. What I can tell you is that the bullpen went 8-2, and 12 for 15 in save opportunities, in this stretch. Three of the four blown saves ended in a win. The team's overall record was 23-12. That means that 10 of the 12 losses were on the starting rotation.

How many were Cueto? lol.

 

[msgkings322]

Thanks for starting up this conversation. It made me decide to poke around on Fangraphs to see if I could compare bullpen performances from June 1st to July 11th. Here is what I've found:
Bullpen is first in ERA (2.54) in this timeframe.
1st place for fewest home runs allowed (8). Only the Marlins allowed less than 10 home runs in the same span.
1st place for fewest walks given (29). The Athletics were 2nd with 36.
1st place in lowest on base percentage against (.259). The Rays were 2nd with .274.
1st place in lowest slugging percentage against (.324), just .002 points ahead of the Marlins.
1st place in weighted on base percentage against (.253).
1st place in walks per 9 (2.0). The Nationals were 2nd with 3.1.
1st place in strikeouts to walks ratio (4.0). The Rays were 2nd with 3.5.
1st place in WHIP (0.98). The Rays were second with 1.07.
1st place in Fielding Independent Pitching (2.93). The Rays were in 2nd place with 3.07.
2nd place in BABIP (.253). The Cubs were first with .226
Tied for 2nd with the Astros for fewest runs scored (apparently, both the Brewers and Astros allowed fewer unearned runs).
3rd lowest in hits allowed (4 hits more than the Astros and 2 hits more than the Brewers).
4th place in batting average against (.210). The Rays were in first with .198 BAA.
Tied for 4th place, with the Indians, in expected fielding independent pitching (3.70). The Rays were in first with 3.21.
Tied for 14th, with the Cubs, for fewest doubles (22) given up.
21st place with runners stranded percentage (67.9%). 1st place was the Brewers with 84.5% and last place was the Diamondbacks with 61.6%
In 28th place for most strikeouts (117). The leader was the Rays with 177. The bottom team was the Athletics with 81.
Tied for last, with the Diamondbacks, for fewest triples (4) given up.

Fangraphs doesn't compare blown saves (at least, I cannot find how to compare them), so I cannot tell how the bullpen has done compared to the rest of the league. What I can tell you is that the bullpen went 8-2, and 12 for 15 in save opportunities, in this stretch. Three of the four blown saves ended in a win. The team's overall record was 23-12. That means that 10 of the 12 losses were on the starting rotation.

I don't think I'm ready for an apology from @tzill yet but I will let him know when he can do so

 

[LHG]

I don't think I'm ready for an apology from @tzill yet but I will let him know when he can do so

If you only look at the first 11 days of July, the bullpen has been more middle of the pack, as he mentions. But, in my opinion, they are still better than he says. And I was one of the first complainers about this bullpen in April.

 

[SF11704]

If you only look at the first 11 days of July, the bullpen has been more middle of the pack, as he mentions. But, in my opinion, they are still better than he says. And I was one of the first complainers about this bullpen in April.

IMHO this is all about how you look at the pen's performance. From an overall perspective they have looked pretty good since June. But if you look at them on a game by game situation you see some interesting stats. In the last 35 games they have given up 44 runs. Not a bad number at all ... but if you look a little closer you'll see that the have also given up 28 of those runs in just seven games. That's like 65% of the runs in 20% of the games. I think these are the games that till sees and reflects back on. There have also been a few games where we have had substantial leads and the pen has given up some big innings ... but we held on to win. To me a win is a win but .... I guess there are goid wins and sloppy wins ....

I just hope we look more like the June bullpen than the April or May bullpen ...

 

[LHG]

IMHO this is all about how you look at the pen's performance. From an overall perspective they have looked pretty good since June. But if you look at them on a game by game situation you see some interesting stats. In the last 35 games they have given up 44 runs. Not a bad number at all ... but if you look a little closer you'll see that the have also given up 28 of those runs in just seven games. That's like 65% of the runs in 20% of the games. I think these are the games that till sees and reflects back on. There have also been a few games where we have had substantial leads and the pen has given up some big innings ... but we held on to win. To me a win is a win but .... I guess there are goid wins and sloppy wins ....

I just hope we look more like the June bullpen than the April or May bullpen ...

Agreed. Performance can be measured by numbers but there are so many numbers that its easy to miss things. The bullpen seems to be all or nothing. Either they are locked in or getting knocked around horribly. Still, in my opinion, the bullpen has transformed from an area of weakness to one of the stronger components of the team.

 

[SF11704]

Agreed. Performance can be measured by numbers but there are so many numbers that its easy to miss things. The bullpen seems to be all or nothing. Either they are locked in or getting knocked around horribly. Still, in my opinion, the bullpen has transformed from an area of weakness to one of the stronger components of the team.

I agree 100%. From an overall perspective they are doing well the past month and a half. If you start 'cherry picking' just what you want to show .... you can defend almost any position you take.

I just don't want them to degrade to an April and May level of performance.