Expansion Banter: Just some Digression

[CoolBeans]

I still think conference expansion will be a must for the Big 12 in the next 7-10 years. For now, everything is hunky dorey, but thatll change. My question is, how many, and where?

My 2025 Big 12 wish list:

1. Go for it! Expand BIG! I'd like to see the conference expand to 16 when it does.

2. In Texas add SMU and Houston. The six Texas Schools and Oklahoma and Okie St. would be the Big 12 South.

3. Add UConn, Cincinnatti, Memphis, and Either steal away Notre Dame some how (not likely) or.....BYU. That would make the Big 12 North a viable football division with the bonus of it being an INCREDIBLE Basketball division!

 

[WVUDAD]

I still think conference expansion will be a must for the Big 12 in the next 7-10 years. For now, everything is hunky dorey, but thatll change. My question is, how many, and where?

My 2025 Big 12 wish list:

1. Go for it! Expand BIG! I'd like to see the conference expand to 16 when it does.

2. In Texas add SMU and Houston. The six Texas Schools and Oklahoma and Okie St. would be the Big 12 South.

3. Add UConn, Cincinnatti, Memphis, and Either steal away Notre Dame some how (not likely) or.....BYU. That would make the Big 12 North a viable football division with the bonus of it being an INCREDIBLE Basketball division!

agree, the B12 had better get off their ass sooner rather than later, if they sit on their hands too long, they will be picked apart by the B11 and PAC. I have read about all four of the other big time leagues trying to grab Texas..........

 

[GoldRusher]

Depends on what the other conferences want in the next goround imo. If tv markets are the rage once again I think the ACC is in much worse shape than the B12. Boston ,Miami, Atlanta(GT), DC (the VA teams), all come into play. Their GOR gets thrown out the window with enough people leaving just like ours would, the B12's eyes already on FSU and Clemson and the ACC already making less money than the other conferences I could see the ACC being picked apart rather quickly If/when the dominoes start to fall. As long as there is a Longhorn network then we wont be seeing a B12 network so tv markets wont matter to us and tier 3 rights (which last I heard the ACC programs hadn't cashed in on, may have changed dunno) would be attractive to programs like NotreDame (unless they wised up and joined the BIG). IMO there was a reason we heard the names FSU,Clemson and NotreDame when B12 expansion came up, just don't think we were in a position to make a power move like that yet. If we wait on the BIG and SEC we wont have to. The PAC could be looking at UNLV and BYU for their network again jmo.

 

[WVUDAD]

Depends on what the other conferences want in the next goround imo. If tv markets are the rage once again I think the ACC is in much worse shape than the B12. Boston ,Miami, Atlanta(GT), DC (the VA teams), all come into play. Their GOR gets thrown out the window with enough people leaving just like ours would, the B12's eyes already on FSU and Clemson and the ACC already making less money than the other conferences I could see the ACC being picked apart rather quickly If/when the dominoes start to fall. As long as there is a Longhorn network then we wont be seeing a B12 network so tv markets wont matter to us and tier 3 rights (which last I heard the ACC programs hadn't cashed in on, may have changed dunno) would be attractive to programs like NotreDame (unless they wised up and joined the BIG). IMO there was a reason we heard the names FSU,Clemson and NotreDame when B12 expansion came up, just don't think we were in a position to make a power move like that yet. If we wait on the BIG and SEC we wont have to. The PAC could be looking at UNLV and BYU for their network again jmo.

One thing to remember, ESPN is driving expansion, the schools and leagues are not, and ESPN is the one building the ACC, they engineered the demise of the BE, and in my opinion, they are going after the B12 next.

 

[DCWV4life]

One thing to remember, ESPN is driving expansion, the schools and leagues are not, and ESPN is the one building the ACC, they engineered the demise of the BE, and in my opinion, they are going after the B12 next.

If fox keeps improving their coverage and standing in college football this will change.

 

[GoldRusher]

from what Ive seen from UCF, Bowlsby needs to get on a plane to Orlando

 

[Anotherwvufan]

With the acc grant of rights, it would be difficult to land a fla st or clemson. B12 would be the third choice for notre lame. None of the other teams mentioned would add any value and everyone would get a smaller share. The B12 will not expand until something major changes

 

[bbwvfan]

I think you have to wait and see what happens to conference teams during the playoff selection process. If Big 12 teams are hurt by not having a CCG like the other power 5 conferences, then expansion will occur.

If having a CCG is worth a ton of money, then expansion will occur.

But, I don't think we will see the Big 12 expand without those factors coming into play.

 

[GoldRusher]

I agree, I don't expect the B12 to do anything until it has to or until the SEC and BIG and maybe even the PAC decide to move again. THEIR tv deals/networks dictates movement more than anything now IMO. It's just they way it is for the moment.

 

[WVUDAD]

I agree, I don't expect the B12 to do anything until it has to or until the SEC and BIG and maybe even the PAC decide to move again. THEIR tv deals/networks dictates movement more than anything now IMO. It's just they way it is for the moment.

Which is what the BE did, sat and waited for someone else to make a move, and it was a fatal mistake. The B12 would have been content to stay at eight, except for media contracts calling for a minimum 10 teams. I keep hearing some people say that the ACC will fold, but why would anyone jump to the B12? Only one team has left the ACC, and that was to move to the B11, not the B12. The B12 and BE are the ones who lost multiple teams, it killed the BE, and will kill the B12 unless the B12 moves AHEAD of someone elses next move. Moving CUSA teams up did not save the BE, and will not save the B12, if they want to be the one to survive, the only way I see to ensure it is to go for broke, grab eight ACC teams at once, leaving no league to enforce their exit fee or GOR, split into two nine team divisions and be the first 18 team super league.

 

[GoldRusher]

which 8?

 

[WVUDAD]

which 8?

As long as we are on this pipe dream, all six ex BE teams, GT, and Clemson

 

[Scapegoat]

If the Big 12 doesn't expand they are in trouble. The problem is there isn't anyone close to bring in. With the ACC grant of rights they're all off the table. That leaves teams like Memphis, Cinncinati, Southern Miss, UCF and South Florida. None are very attractive. SMU and Houston don't really bring in any new markets either.

 

[tabascojet]

should have got louisville when they had the chance....

big12 needs to decide what the goals of expansion it wants to accomplish.
IMO with tv money leading these decisions they should try to expand for markets yet stay somewhat regional. A great footprint would be to add cincy, tulane, southern miss, houston, memphis, and northern illinois.

 

[Slaton10]

I still think conference expansion will be a must for the Big 12 in the next 7-10 years. For now, everything is hunky dorey, but thatll change. My question is, how many, and where?

My 2025 Big 12 wish list:

1. Go for it! Expand BIG! I'd like to see the conference expand to 16 when it does.

2. In Texas add SMU and Houston. The six Texas Schools and Oklahoma and Okie St. would be the Big 12 South.

3. Add UConn, Cincinnatti, Memphis, and Either steal away Notre Dame some how (not likely) or.....BYU. That would make the Big 12 North a viable football division with the bonus of it being an INCREDIBLE Basketball division!

???...No offense but you are still thinking as though we are in the Big East...the Big 12 next year will have the highest payout per team than any conference...at least for now...why would they even remotely consider Memphis, Cinncy or a SMU...If the Big 10 can poach Maryland..then there are other teams from both the ACC or any other major conference that the Big12 should and could think about..

 

[WVUDAD]

???...No offense but you are still thinking as though we are in the Big East...the Big 12 next year will have the highest payout per team than any conference...at least for now...why would they even remotely consider Memphis, Cinncy or a SMU...If the Big 10 can poach Maryland..then there are other teams from both the ACC or any other major conference that the Big12 should and could think about..

Slaton, with most leagues signing GOR agreements and pushing exit fees higher, the one or two team pickoff is over. Which is why the B12 is the most vulnerable to poaching, NCAA rules say that a div 1 league must have six teams, meaning that if the PAC and B11 grabbed five all at once, there is no league to enforce the GOR, for the 14 team ACC, it would take getting NINE teams to leave all at once to dissolve the league.

 

[WVUDAD]

If the Big 12 doesn't expand they are in trouble. The problem is there isn't anyone close to bring in. With the ACC grant of rights they're all off the table. That leaves teams like Memphis, Cinncinati, Southern Miss, UCF and South Florida. None are very attractive. SMU and Houston don't really bring in any new markets either.

Scapegoat, you hit the nail on the head, the bigger problem is that there is no one close for the PAC to take, so when the push for 16 happens, they will be coming hard after the cream of the crop, and if they work together with the B11, BOOM, no more B12. The SEC is the only one without a long term GOR, so if I were running the B12, I would be on the phone with Arkansas and Cinci, I know quite a few Hogs fans who say they would LOVE to be back where they belong.

 

[GoldRusher]

Slaton, with most leagues signing GOR agreements and pushing exit fees higher, the one or two team pickoff is over. Which is why the B12 is the most vulnerable to poaching, NCAA rules say that a div 1 league must have six teams, meaning that if the PAC and B11 grabbed five all at once, there is no league to enforce the GOR, for the 14 team ACC, it would take getting NINE teams to leave all at once to dissolve the league.

If the BIG decides to get tv markets/expand footprint for the B10 network, ditto for the SEC and they make their moves at the same or similar time and the B12 takes regional brands that go into panic mode like they have did before, the ACC could lose 9 in the blink of an eye imo. I agree getting one or two here and there is done with the GOR in place and agree a single conference cant do it but who says the SEC/B12 and BIG (the bigger money conferences) cant go in together in a raid on the lowest per team payout conference to benefit all 3 leagues? Its just as probable as thinking the B12 is in some kind of trouble. IMHO the time to kill the B12 has came and went, the PAC had Texas AND OU on the doorstep and for whatever reason couldn't get it done, and people think not nabbing UL was a blow and something to regret? What do those people say about the PAC who swung and missed on those two LEGIT big dawg programs when it seemed everyone was running out the door?
I believe those in charge of the B12, especially the ones who were nearly hung out to dry are covering all the bases, I don't buy that they just made a bonehead move by not taking UL, after what they have just came out of if they thought UL was the right move for stability then the Cards would be sitting in the B12 right now with us. I'm betting they know something that we all don't. I guess time will tell.

 

[WVUDAD]

If the BIG decides to get tv markets/expand footprint for the B10 network, ditto for the SEC and they make their moves at the same or similar time and the B12 takes regional brands that go into panic mode like they have did before, the ACC could lose 9 in the blink of an eye imo. I agree getting one or two here and there is done with the GOR in place and agree a single conference cant do it but who says the SEC/B12 and BIG (the bigger money conferences) cant go in together in a raid on the lowest per team payout conference to benefit all 3 leagues? Its just as probable as thinking the B12 is in some kind of trouble. IMHO the time to kill the B12 has came and went, the PAC had Texas AND OU on the doorstep and for whatever reason couldn't get it done, and people think not nabbing UL was a blow and something to regret? What do those people say about the PAC who swung and missed on those two LEGIT big dawg programs when it seemed everyone was running out the door?
I believe those in charge of the B12, especially the ones who were nearly hung out to dry are covering all the bases, I don't buy that they just made a bonehead move by not taking UL, after what they have just came out of if they thought UL was the right move for stability then the Cards would be sitting in the B12 right now with us. I'm betting they know something that we all don't. I guess time will tell.

The hold up for the PAC was TLN, pure and simple, they were not going to have one school with their own TV network. The four schools were on board, the deal was done, but they couldn't come to terms on TLN. As to the B11 and SEC teaming up to kill the ACC, they are both sitting at 14 schools, so I see no reasonable way that they take nine teams, even if you include the B12 in a massive raid. The only ones I have read about having a desire to be elsewhere are FSU and Clemson. I agree that the B12 should have grabbed up UL PLUS Cincy when WVU joined up. I wish Mizzou would have stayed put in the B12, then WVU would have a stable home in the SEC right now..................

 

[Slaton10]

Slaton, with most leagues signing GOR agreements and pushing exit fees higher, the one or two team pickoff is over. Which is why the B12 is the most vulnerable to poaching, NCAA rules say that a div 1 league must have six teams, meaning that if the PAC and B11 grabbed five all at once, there is no league to enforce the GOR, for the 14 team ACC, it would take getting NINE teams to leave all at once to dissolve the league.

I don't think so...not by a long shot....example...Wv will drive over $142 million per year next year...whats a $20 million buyout clause when its likely you are going to something that will pay that off in the first year...i.e See Wv when exiting the Big East............:rollseyes: