Edgar H.O.F Thread

[PolarVortex]

Unless they hold the steroid argument against him like they have with Bonds, Sosa, Clemons... Especially since he tested positive in 2003 for PED's...

The Mitchell report conveniently overlooked Red Sox players for plainly obvious reasons. If Ortiz had been on the report, his steroid use would have as much notoriety as that of Clemens, Bonds, Canseco, and Palmiero.
Ortiz got a free pass. It isn't right, just like the Gold Glove Raffy stole from John Olerud isn't right.

 

[PolarVortex]

One time, at a Tigers game, I got Lou to acknowledge me yelling, "Lou Piniella wears woman's underpants!"


I was 20. It's still a highlight of my life. I'd love to tell Skip that before we're gone. Trolling, for fun. His always angry ass knew it.



Honestly, love that Edgar has his rightful place.

Lou was a smorgasbord of emotions. He wasn't always angry. He had a good sense of humor too. He probably appreciated your unique stab at trolling him.

 

[Dolemite censored]

But I have always thought that is total bunk. There have been DH’s all the way back to Ted Williams. Being a great hitter while being a terrible fielder isn’t any better than being a great hitter while not hurting your team in the field. Edgar was actually an above average fielder until he got hurt. I just think it is dumb that he was being punished for being a great team player (allowing Blowers to play 3B) and that he played for a shitty organization that kept him down in the minors for 3 extra years because Bradley was a fan favorite.

You certainly have more Mariners angst to bear. I tried being a fan, but they just flat out do not commit resources to winning. Its like the Mariners are MLB's AAA+ minor league team that feeds stars to other teams.

 

[wazzu31]

You certainly have more Mariners angst to bear. I tried being a fan, but they just flat out do not commit resources to winning. Its like the Mariners are MLB's AAA+ minor league team that feeds stars to other teams.

I’ll always be a fan of the Mariners. But they are one example of just because you are wealthy and succeed in a different area of life doesn’t mean you can succeed at owning a franchise. Since Paul Allen took over the Mariners nearly every hire he personally made worked (except Mora but that wasn’t on Allen) with the Mariners it is nearly the exact opposite. Realistically the only good thing hire the franchise has made since I became a fan was Lou Pinella. Most would argue Pat Gillick but I despise him.

 

[Dolemite censored]

Since Paul Allen took over the Mariners nearly every hire he personally made worked (except Mora but that wasn’t on Allen)

*Seahawks.

 

[wazzu31]

*Seahawks.

Ya, my bad. You know what I meant though. Across from the Pink are two definitions of great run pro franchises. Inside the Pink is a rutterless ship.

 

[wazzu31]

Congrats to Edgar.

Not to be Debbie Downer or anything but the bittersweep flip side of Edgar's induction is the opportunity missed in the 1996 and 1997 seasons. Consider:
The team had three HOFers (Junior, RJ, Edgar).
A guy who has the stats of a HOF but may get overlooked because of steroids (Arod).
A guy who is 35th on the career wins list and only had one career win less than newly inducted HOFer Mike Mussina (Jamie Moyer).
An allstar RFer who finished in the top 20 in the MVP in both 1996 and 1997 (Buhner).
One of the better managers of the post war era (Piniella).

There is an essential 30 for 30 on the MLB network called the Dynasty that never was about the 90’s Indians and I watch it saying you are kidding me. The Mariners had more overall talent on the field and in the minors but ownership screwed it all up by first design Tino and Jeff Nelson then doubled down by trading Derek Lowe and Varitek for essentially Jeff Nelson’s role. With the collection of talent the organization had between 95-2002 it was damn near impossible they didn’t win let alone make the World Series.

 

[Podunkparte]

 

[StanMarsh51]

There is an essential 30 for 30 on the MLB network called the Dynasty that never was about the 90’s Indians and I watch it saying you are kidding me. The Mariners had more overall talent on the field and in the minors but ownership screwed it all up by first design Tino and Jeff Nelson then doubled down by trading Derek Lowe and Varitek for essentially Jeff Nelson’s role. With the collection of talent the organization had between 95-2002 it was damn near impossible they didn’t win let alone make the World Series.

Arguable....the Mariners had better talent at the top (Griffey, RJ, A-Rod), but I'd say the Indians had more depth of talent....

Think of all the all stars and/or HOF caliber players the Indians had in the mid/late '90s at some point:

-Thome
-Alomar
-Lofton
-Manny
-Vizquel
-Justice
-Belle
-Matt Williams
-Eddie Murray
-Dennis Martinez
-Colon

They also had Kent, Burnitz, Giles and traded them away right before their primes...

 

[navamind]

Arguable....the Mariners had better talent at the top (Griffey, RJ, A-Rod), but I'd say the Indians had more depth of talent....

Think of all the players the Indians had in the mid/late '90s at some point:

-Thome
-Alomar
-Lofton
-Manny
-Vizquel
-Justice
-Belle
-Matt Williams
-Eddie Murray
-Dennis Martinez
-Colon

They also had Kent, Burnitz, Giles and traded them away right before their primes...

They also missed out on some pretty good Richie Sexson years. He had a 133 OPS+ as a Brewer and a 130 OPS+ in his first two years in Seattle.

Crazy to think that the 1999 Indians could have even scored more runs than they did, but what if they still had Giles (who had a 157 OPS+ in his first season post-trade)?

 

[PolarVortex]

There is an essential 30 for 30 on the MLB network called the Dynasty that never was about the 90’s Indians and I watch it saying you are kidding me. The Mariners had more overall talent on the field and in the minors but ownership screwed it all up by first design Tino and Jeff Nelson then doubled down by trading Derek Lowe and Varitek for essentially Jeff Nelson’s role. With the collection of talent the organization had between 95-2002 it was damn near impossible they didn’t win let alone make the World Series.

Whiffing on the Jeff Fassero signing didn't help much either. I guess they got one decent season out of Fassero, but the rest were garbage.

 

[navamind]

Whiffing on the Jeff Fassero signing didn't help much either. I guess they got one decent season out of Fassero, but the rest were garbage.

I'd say he had two, but he really bombed in 1999

 

[PolarVortex]

I'd say he had two, but he really bombed in 1999

For a guy expected to be #2 in the rotation, his 1998 season was unacceptable. It may have been less of a factor if Randy Johnson had not thrown a big pity party forcing a trade to Houston. But Fassero took a step back when the team needed him to take a step up.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Arguable....the Mariners had better talent at the top (Griffey, RJ, A-Rod), but I'd say the Indians had more depth of talent....

Think of all the all stars and/or HOF caliber players the Indians had in the mid/late '90s at some point:

-Thome
-Alomar
-Lofton
-Manny
-Vizquel
-Justice
-Belle
-Matt Williams
-Eddie Murray
-Dennis Martinez
-Colon

They also had Kent, Burnitz, Giles and traded them away right before their primes...

Fair take,

Mariners needed another reliable starter in 1995. They were just throwing together anything in that Indians series (Wolcott and Bosio). Most of the rest of years the bullpen just torpedoed them

Indians seemed to be missing that one dominant Big Unit type starter. Guys like Orel in 1995 and Wright in 1997 were good when it counted but neither was gonna shut down a team.

 

[SeattleCoug]

For a guy expected to be #2 in the rotation, his 1998 season was unacceptable. It may have been less of a factor if Randy Johnson had not thrown a big pity party forcing a trade to Houston. But Fassero took a step back when the team needed him to take a step up.

Yeah 1998 was just a cluster. Outside of Fassero, Ken Cloude was supposed to be a thing and he bombed. I think they hoped Mac Suzuki would be something and he wasnt either. And the bullpen was an utter joke despite trading all that talent away. and somehow Ayala was still around lol

 

[StanMarsh51]

For a guy expected to be #2 in the rotation, his 1998 season was unacceptable. It may have been less of a factor if Randy Johnson had not thrown a big pity party forcing a trade to Houston. But Fassero took a step back when the team needed him to take a step up.

Of all the pitchers in baseball who threw 180 innings in 1998, Fassero was 31st in ERA and he was also top 10 in the AL in WHIP. What are you expecting, a top 10 ERA for your #2 guy?

 

[PolarVortex]

Of all the pitchers in baseball who threw 180 innings in 1998, Fassero was 31st in ERA and he was also top 10 in the AL in WHIP. What are you expecting, a top 10 ERA for your #2 guy?

Better. Much better. A nice WHIP is only useful when it is accompanied by a complimentary ERA. A 3.93 ERA is not a complimentary ERA.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Better. Much better. A nice WHIP is only useful when it is accompanied by a complimentary ERA. A 3.93 ERA is not a complimentary ERA.

He was 31st in ERA among all pitchers who threw 180 innings. That means in theory, he was almost good enough to be a #1 starter that year (although towards the bottom of #1 starters).

If you went through every team's second best starter, Fassero might very well be among the top tier of them.

 

[PolarVortex]

He was 31st in ERA among all pitchers who threw 180 innings. That means in theory, he was almost good enough to be a #1 starter that year (although towards the bottom of #1 starters).

You don't need to repeat yourself. I read it the first time. I'm no more impressed this time around. And why did you cut off at 180 innings? Does it inflate the perception of Fassero's ERA? If you are making a point about ERA, you should use 162 innings which is the cutoff for eligibility for qualifying for the ERA title.

 

[navamind]

Fassero was also in the top 10 in IP in 1997 and 1998.