Edgar H.O.F Thread

[navamind]

That's farfetched - Thome from '95 to '99 averaged a 1.005 OPS. Tino with the Mariners never topped .920 (and for his career never hit .950), and Blowers after '93 never topped .809. Thome alone makes this one a landslide for the Indians given how much better he was.






You're combining positions so one player (in this case Buhner) can leech off of Griffey's advantage over Lofton. They should be compared separately. And Buhner was rated a below average fielder for most of his career, so it's not a big difference there while Manny was a better hitter.

Tino's hilariously overrated.

 

[PolarVortex]

Tino's hilariously overrated.

Yeah, the Mariners were soooo wise to trade away the 'over-rated' 27-year-old Tino Martinez (who went on to hit another 251 homeruns) and Jeff Nelson (who appeared in 310 games for the Yankees over the next five years) for Russ 'Booted it' Davis and Sterling Fucking Hitchcock. Great win.

 

[navamind]

Yeah, the Mariners were soooo wise to trade away the 'over-rated' 27-year-old Tino Martinez (who went on to hit another 251 homeruns) and Jeff Nelson (who appeared in 310 games for the Yankees over the next five years) for Russ 'Booted it' Davis and Sterling Fucking Hitchcock. Great win.

Did I say it was a good trade? You can be a good player and still be overrated.

 

[PolarVortex]

Did I say it was a good trade? You can be a good player and still be overrated.

Averaged 35 homers, 117 RBI the first five years after the trade. Doesn't sound over-rated to me.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Yeah, the Mariners were soooo wise to trade away the 'over-rated' 27-year-old Tino Martinez (who went on to hit another 251 homeruns) and Jeff Nelson (who appeared in 310 games for the Yankees over the next five years) for Russ 'Booted it' Davis and Sterling Fucking Hitchcock. Great win.

Not enough foul language can describe that trade from a Mariner perspective.

 

[navamind]

Averaged 35 homers, 117 RBI the first five years after the trade. Doesn't sound over-rated to me.

he averaged 28 home runs and 115 RBIs. He had a 114 OPS+ over that stretch, which is pedestrian for a 1st baseman. He was a power hitter in a league full of them.

Major League Leaderboards » 2000 » First Basemen » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

His 113 wRC+ ranks 24th among 1st basemen.

 

[PolarVortex]

he averaged 28 home runs and 115 RBIs. He had a 114 OPS+ over that stretch, which is pedestrian for a 1st baseman. He was a power hitter in a league full of them.

Major League Leaderboards » 2000 » First Basemen » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

His 113 wRC+ ranks 24th among 1st basemen.

Based on your opinion then, Red Sox HOFers Carl Yastrzemski, Jim Rice, Carlton Fisk are also overrated.

Yastrzemski, as a corner outfield also expected to be a big offense contributor's best five year run average: 23 homeruns, 98 RBI

Jim Rice, as a corner outfield also expected to be a big offense contributor's best five year run average: 35 homeruns, 111 RBI

Carlton Fisk's best five-year run came in the latter stages of his career after his defensive skills at catcher had all but eroded to the point where he was a negative presence behind the plate. Clearly overrated at 24 homeruns. 76 RBI

 

[wazzu31]

That's farfetched - Thome from '95 to '99 averaged a 1.005 OPS. Tino with the Mariners never topped .920 (and for his career never hit .950), and Blowers after '93 never topped .809. Thome alone makes this one a landslide for the Indians given how much better he was.






You're combining positions so one player (in this case Buhner) can leech off of Griffey's advantage over Lofton. They should be compared separately. And Buhner was rated a below average fielder for most of his career, so it's not a big difference there while Manny was a better hitter.

You seem to think I’m comparing Thome to Tino when you changed the goalposts of my dynasty argument. Thome doesn’t play 1B in 95 as well as I’m comparing the team. You can think the 1B/3B combo was better but ARod as a 2nd year player alone was better than the middle infield and probably the entire infield of Cleveland. Griffey and Buhner were better than Belle and Cleveland Manny.

And yes, I am combining positions since there is more than 1 player on a team. Which is where my whole argument started off when the Indians special was put out. They had a dynasty that never was yet the Mariners had the real dynasty when they had 2 of the 3 best players in the game for the 90’s. The best DH, the most dominant pitcher. You can add the collection of offensive talent Cleveland had and IMO it doesn’t come close to the offensive talent the Mariners had (hence the 97 team when they were missing Tino and had Davis starting). You rebutted and I conceded Cleveland had a better staff which is why they won in 95 and not the Mariners.

 

[wazzu31]

Did I say it was a good trade? You can be a good player and still be overrated.

No one is saying Tino is a HOFer. But he was a very above average player the Mariners missed until they got Olerud.

 

[wazzu31]

Not enough foul language can describe that trade from a Mariner perspective.

I’ve always wondered had the Safeco Field tax passed before the 95 season if the Mariners would’ve resigned Tino instead of dealing him. Had they kept Tino and Nelson that would’ve opened up so many options instead of either trading or FA signing First basemen and RH setup men/closers. Or how had the original deal for Tino and Nelson included the deal that allegedly was on the table with Davis, Pettite and Mo.

 

[PolarVortex]

I’ve always wondered had the Safeco Field tax passed before the 95 season if the Mariners would’ve resigned Tino instead of dealing him. Had they kept Tino and Nelson that would’ve opened up so many options instead of either trading or FA signing First basemen and RH setup men/closers. Or how had the original deal for Tino and Nelson included the deal that allegedly was on the table with Davis, Pettite and Mo.

Paul Sorrento and David Segui were decent bridges to Olerud but Tino was clearly best of the three. If we had had the 258 RBI Tino put up his first two years with the Yankees instead of the 173 we got from Sorrento...And Segui's first season was okay but his 1999 was unproductive before he was traded.

 

[wazzu31]

Paul Sorrento and David Segui were decent bridges to Olerud but Tino was clearly best of the three. If we had had the 258 RBI Tino put up his first two years with the Yankees instead of the 173 we got from Sorrento...And Segui's first season was okay but his 1999 was unproductive before he was traded.

I would’ve preferred Tino in every single aspect over Sorrento or Segui. My main issue isn’t so much Tino was a far superior player it’s that because of the Tino trade the Mariners ending up trading Derek Lowe, Jason Varitek and Cruz Jr. for essentially Jeff Nelson type role players. As we have said the Indians had a better staff but the Mariners could’ve flipped those three guys for another starter. With another legit starter and not giving the Yankees Tino and Nelson I believe the Mariners would’ve had that WS run the Yankees had.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I don’t know, I heard it on the radio and it safes the whole Safeco, I mean T Mobile Park sentence. Plus I also heard the city is being petty jerks with not allowing the Mariners or whoever is in charge of taking down all the Safeco Field signs.

Going to take me a while to adjust to calling it T-Mobile Park.

I really hope they don't light it up purple like they showed in the renderings. That really clashes with the current color scheme of the stadium.

 

[wazzu31]

Going to take me a while to adjust to calling it T-Mobile Park.

I really hope they don't light it up purple like they showed in the renderings. That really clashes with the current color scheme of the stadium.

Ya no clue, I’m guessing pink is going to be the main color scheme. Just wish the city and Mariners would figure out whatever the heck it is they are quabling over monetarily so we could see how it will look. I’m sure once it goes TMobile most of the entire scheme will change somehow.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I’ve always wondered had the Safeco Field tax passed before the 95 season if the Mariners would’ve resigned Tino instead of dealing him. Had they kept Tino and Nelson that would’ve opened up so many options instead of either trading or FA signing First basemen and RH setup men/closers. Or how had the original deal for Tino and Nelson included the deal that allegedly was on the table with Davis, Pettite and Mo.

Yea the Hitchcock instead of Pettite part still is what really grinds me. They let the Yanks dictate that whole thing while being cheap with Tino

 

[Cloud]

Just wanna resurrect this thread since we're about 30 days away from the HOF Weekend.
Something to look forward to from this organization.

Go Edgar!

 

[SeattleCoug]

Just wanna resurrect this thread since we're about 30 days away from the HOF Weekend.
Something to look forward to from this organization.

Go Edgar!

Nice to have something to look forward too this season. Will be a cool ceremony

 

[AceKeptic]

Just wanna resurrect this thread since we're about 30 days away from the HOF Weekend.
Something to look forward to from this organization.

Go Edgar!

It's the one positive that this year's dumpster fire of a team can't POSSIBLY fuck up.

 

[seahawksfan234]

It's the one positive that this year's dumpster fire of a team can't POSSIBLY fuck up.

The one guy Dipoto can't trade away.

 

[rightstuff]

ust wanna resurrect this thread since we're about 30 days away from the HOF Weekend.
Something to look forward to from this organization.

Go Edgar!

I will be in ROW 1.
Just above the Display.
Love me some Edgar.
See ya'll on Aug 9th.