Eagles trying to sign Graham

[swat]

This is awesome.

 

[Speedy]

Btw, trotter, harrison and half the guys on that list werent even pass rushers.

You can teach a smart and physical guy to be a decent MLB.

Urlacher, keuchley, trotter etc all made the transition from off, to mlb in the nfl. But pass rushing is different,

Let me explain.

Pass rushing is almost a marshal art, its a dance, a reaction, split second thing that needs the foundation of an almost quid-pro-quo of hostility to build on.

I teach pass rushing and my three steps are simple.

Hands first.
Aggressive Contact
Finishing move.

In my experience, from actually playing, to coaching to scouting, guys who have the natural gift, pick it up and never put it down, it sticks to them in their reactionary memory.

Guys who are not pass rushers JUST DONT GET IT. Smith isnt a natural pass rusher. He could be the only first round pick ive seen on film that has zero techniques or pass rush tools. Dude doesn't event dip n rip.

 

[deerpathdave]

lol No sense in letting a few facts get in the way of your opinion. Lets stick with Kevin Greene and Andre Tippett. Arguably two of the best pass rushers ever, yet neither one showed it on day one. In fact neither one recorded a single sack in their first regular season.

Why do you even bother teaching pass rushing if it can't be taught? Perhaps you are trying to explain that its a natural gift as a way of explaining why you evidently can't teach it very well? Or perhaps never could learn it yourself?

Speedy, you may benefit from listening and learning on occasion.

 

[Speedy]

Please... someone point out the clip of him using his hands, leaning around the edge, setting up a legit speed rush, dlapping a linemans hands and body off of him, dip n ripping, swim, spin...SOMETHING!

 

[RobBase]

Won't be surprised to see the Lions pursue Graham, especially is Suh leaves. Move Jason Jones inside and put Graham and 4-3 end where he feels at home.

 

[deerpathdave]

And James Harrison wasn't a Pass Rusher? He had 70 career sacks and 45 over a four year span.

 

[Speedy]

lol No sense in letting a few facts get in the way of your opinion. Lets stick with Kevin Greene and Andre Tippett. Arguably two of the best pass rushers ever, yet neither one showed it on day one. In fact neither one recorded a single sack in their first regular season.

Why do you even bother teaching pass rushing if it can't be taught? Perhaps you are trying to explain that its a natural gift as a way of explaining why you evidently can't teach it very well? Or perhaps never could learn it yourself?

Speedy, you may benefit from listening and learning on occasion.

Are you kidding me? Are you actually looking at the film? If you think kevin greene dudnt have pass rush ability day one your completely football illiterate bro. Greene was a beast in college and BEAT GOOD LINEMAN WITH MOVES. He absolutely showed talent.

What you are doing is pulling out a stat sheet without actually knowing what a good pass rusher is.

But seriously, if you think greene didnt have it on day one there is no point in continuing the conversation.

And again, I dont, teach pass rushing FUNDAMENTALS, I teach pass rushers to refine their skills.

All I can say is, do yourself a favor and actually pop in smiths film, then pop in brandon grahams college film, pop in vinny currys college film, pop in dwight freeney, von miller etc. The difference SCREAMS at you.

 

[deerpathdave]

Are you kidding me? Are you actually looking at the film? If you think kevin greene dudnt have pass rush ability day one your completely football illiterate bro. Greene was a beast in college and BEAT GOOD LINEMAN WITH MOVES. He absolutely showed talent.

What you are doing is pulling out a stat sheet without actually knowing what a good pass rusher is.

But seriously, if you think greene didnt have it on day one there is no point in continuing the conversation.

And again, I dont, teach pass rushing FUNDAMENTALS, I teach pass rushers to refine their skills.

All I can say is, do yourself a favor and actually pop in smiths film, then pop in brandon grahams college film, pop in vinny currys college film, pop in dwight freeney, von miller etc. The difference SCREAMS at you.

SO if Kevin Greene showed it from day one, can you explain how he didn't show a single sack in his first 14 games and wasn't drafted until the 5th round? This is one of the best pass rushers in NFL history and at game 14 of his career had as many sacks as Marcus Smith has now.

 

[Speedy]

And James Harrison wasn't a Pass Rusher? He had 70 career sacks and 45 over a four year span.

No, james harrison was an outside linebacker but not regarded as a "pass rusher" per se. And he didnt have 70, he had 66 sacks in 13years, and he played in at least 11 games (including his rookie year).

Not one guy you named on that list finished the year with little to no games played like smith has...NOT ONE!

 

[Speedy]

SO if Kevin Greene showed it from day one, can you explain how he didn't show a single sack in his first 14 games and wasn't drafted until the 5th round? This is one of the best pass rushers in NFL history and at game 14 of his career had as many sacks as Marcus Smith has now.

Omg, seriously stop... until you watch the tape, im done. Its stupid to compare kevin greene, a former sec defensive player of the year candidate, who had one of the best spin moves in nfl history, and who LEANED and ripped around the edge, with a guy who has ZERO PASS RUSH ABILITY.

please... do yourself a favor. Pick up the film.

 

[deerpathdave]

No, james harrison was an outside linebacker but not regarded as a "pass rusher" per se. And he didnt have 70, he had 66 sacks in 13years, and he played in at least 11 games (including his rookie year).

Not one guy you named on that list finished the year with little to no games played like smith has...NOT ONE!

Actually James Harrison did. He was a practice squad guy for his first couple of years and never saw the field. And how can you call a guy who has 66 or 70 (The stats guys disagree on this one, maybe 70 includes post season?) sacks not a pass rusher? He had 16 in a season.

 

[Speedy]

Actually James Harrison did. He was a practice squad guy for his first couple of years and never saw the field. And how can you call a guy who has 66 or 70 (The stats guys disagree on this one, maybe 70 includes post season?) sacks not a pass rusher? He had 16 in a season.

Dude, I hope im wrong on smith, but the tape and history doesnt lie. Name me a guy drafted to rush the passer in the last 5 years, even if they stunk it up that DIDNT get snaps... at all. I mean, its not like he wasnt needed. We just had back to back games of our defense being on the field for over 40 minutes.

Look at his tape. He is not a pass rusher.

Trying to make a guy who isnt instinctually a rusher, into one is like making LeSean mccoy into a bruiser back, or Christian okoye into a scat back, or mike alsott into a speed finesse running back. It just isnt so...

 

[deerpathdave]

Dude, I hope im wrong on smith, but the tape and history doesnt lie. Name me a guy drafted to rush the passer in the last 5 years, even if they stunk it up that DIDNT get snaps... at all. I mean, its not like he wasnt needed. We just had back to back games of our defense being on the field for over 40 minutes.

Look at his tape. He is not a pass rusher.

Trying to make a guy who isnt instinctually a rusher, into one is like making LeSean mccoy into a bruiser back, or Christian okoye into a scat back, or mike alsott into a speed finesse running back. It just isnt so...

Why does the last 5 years mark make a difference? Really, if some players take a few years to develop, you will be hard pressed to find a recent example, because it hasn't happened yet. 10 examples don't seem to be enough for you. lol

 

[deerpathdave]

Dude, I hope im wrong on smith, but the tape and history doesnt lie. Name me a guy drafted to rush the passer in the last 5 years, even if they stunk it up that DIDNT get snaps... at all. I mean, its not like he wasnt needed. We just had back to back games of our defense being on the field for over 40 minutes.

Look at his tape. He is not a pass rusher.

Trying to make a guy who isnt instinctually a rusher, into one is like making LeSean mccoy into a bruiser back, or Christian okoye into a scat back, or mike alsott into a speed finesse running back. It just isnt so...

He wan't needed. The Eagles had three OLBs playing at a very high level. Graham only getting 40% snaps. Putting Smith in there takes Cole, Graham or Barwin off the field.

 

[Rey]

The Eagles haven't had to force Smith ... which is a good thing. Cole has actually had a nice year (won't be here next year due to price tag) and Graham has had a very good year now that he'd been healthy. On the other side Barwin has had a Pro Bowl year. There simply hasn't been a reason to force Smith into the lineup which in the end can be good for him as he's had the chance to sit and learn.

 

[PhillyGreen]

The Eagles haven't had to force Smith ... which is a good thing. Cole has actually had a nice year (won't be here next year due to price tag) and Graham has had a very good year now that he'd been healthy. On the other side Barwin has had a Pro Bowl year. There simply hasn't been a reason to force Smith into the lineup which in the end can be good for him as he's had the chance to sit and learn.

As Eagles fans most are impatient. They want to win and win now and I get that because I am the same way. There has to be some common sense though. Every first round pick is not a guaranteed stud and if we get a player with a high upside and he was able to sit and learn why not let him.

The Eagles made two huge mistakes in the offseason. They did not address the CB position and they kept Billy Davis in his position. I am willing to get that Davis gets fired this off season.

 

[DutchBird]

As Eagles fans most are impatient. They want to win and win now and I get that because I am the same way. There has to be some common sense though. Every first round pick is not a guaranteed stud and if we get a player with a high upside and he was able to sit and learn why not let him.

The Eagles made two huge mistakes in the offseason. They did not address the CB position and they kept Billy Davis in his position. I am willing to get that Davis gets fired this off season.

(1) Who was available at CB that would have been a clear upgrade - and was thought to be so at the time(!)? Mind you, we were not going to get rid of Fletcher and Williams (yet). Also, the Eagles just had a disastrous experience with bringing in high priced CB's, and even this year the apparently $68 million is about as bad as ours is.

(2) The hallmark of a good coach is that he can get his players to perform up to (or even above) their natural abilities and talent. As sad as it is, I cannot really think of any player on defense which has underperformed - indeed, many have played much better than we expected.

 

[DaEagles]

(1) Who was available at CB that would have been a clear upgrade - and was thought to be so at the time

Revis
Verner
Talib
Vontae Davis
Antonio Cromartie

And

on

and

on

and

on

There were PLENTY of FA's who were better then our CB's. How ANYONE can say there wasn't is just assanine and don't have a clue to this secondary or the NFL in general.

Save the bullshit on the money. You don't think there were any upgrades over our current ones. Fact is there were PLENTY of them and there will be PLENTY more this offseason.

 

[PhillyGreen]

(1) Who was available at CB that would have been a clear upgrade - and was thought to be so at the time(!)? Mind you, we were not going to get rid of Fletcher and Williams (yet). Also, the Eagles just had a disastrous experience with bringing in high priced CB's, and even this year the apparently $68 million is about as bad as ours is.

DaEagles beat me to it so I will defer to his response on this.

(2) The hallmark of a good coach is that he can get his players to perform up to (or even above) their natural abilities and talent. As sad as it is, I cannot really think of any player on defense which has underperformed - indeed, many have played much better than we expected.

It is also about defensive play calling and Davis has been horrible at that all season long. They are magnified when the Eagles face just an above average receiver. He has been hiding behind the talent on the front 7 and without that talent up front there is no telling how bad things would be.

 

[old duke]

The title of this thread was resigning Brandon Graham. Even though I like Graham, he didn't really help his cause for a big contract last night. He played OK, but didn't dominate. They will offer him a decent contract (as they already did), but he will most likely move on to a team that runs a 4-3 defense. I hope he doesn't wind up with one of our division rivals.