Eagles trying to sign Graham

[Speedy]

Barkley cannot play. At this point, chip is just being stubborn.

Marcus smith has a shot with is if he was a 3rd round pick, as I said on draft day he doesn't have the tools or techniques or creative instinct to become more than a sp tms maybe 3rd string coverage guy in the nfl. I thought he could be good with time but now im not so sure. I dont think ive ever seen a 1st round defensive player not even rotate into the game, and especially the last few games that saw our d on the field over 40 minutes.

More than all of that, bill davis needs to go. He is calling games like he is auditioning for another coaching gig, not to win games. Vs quality offenses he plays vanilla non risky defense and seems to be ok with "keeping things respectable". We need a guy that wants to win first and foremost. Rex ryan would be awesome if he gets canned.

 

[deerpathdave]

Barkley cannot play. At this point, chip is just being stubborn.

Marcus smith has a shot with is if he was a 3rd round pick, as I said on draft day he doesn't have the tools or techniques or creative instinct to become more than a sp tms maybe 3rd string coverage guy in the nfl. I thought he could be good with time but now im not so sure. I dont think ive ever seen a 1st round defensive player not even rotate into the game, and especially the last few games that saw our d on the field over 40 minutes.

More than all of that, bill davis needs to go. He is calling games like he is auditioning for another coaching gig, not to win games. Vs quality offenses he plays vanilla non risky defense and seems to be ok with "keeping things respectable". We need a guy that wants to win first and foremost. Rex ryan would be awesome if he gets canned.

You seem disturbingly sure of your assessment that is based on what? Barkley looked pretty good in the pre-season and Marcus Smith hasn't played. We know virtually nothing about these guys, while the coaches see them every day. All we really know about Smith at this point is that Cole, Graham and Barwin are better.

 

[Speedy]

You seem disturbingly sure of your assessment that is based on what? Barkley looked pretty good in the pre-season and Marcus Smith hasn't played. We know virtually nothing about these guys, while the coaches see them every day. All we really know about Smith at this point is that Cole, Graham and Barwin are better.

I know football, I know a player and I know how organizations treat players that can play. Its common sense really, with two qbs struggling, barkleys name hasn't come up at all, and with a depleted linebacking corp our first round pick has less snaps than every first round pick in last years draft. 2+2=4 fellas, college stats are meaningless, I only care about translatable tools and smith doesn't have them. It most smith will be a carlos emmons type player, decent in coverage, but poor at everything else.

Me and wings talked about smiths lack of pass rushing tools after we took him and we were both right. I believe my eyes, and the coaches actions. In 3 years neither barkley or smith will be on this roster and id bet money on that.

 

[swat]

I think giving up on MArcus SMith is insane. The guy has the athleticsm....he needs technique work. If it was the opposite & did nothing this year than year but this should have been somewhat expected especially with 3 guys in front of him.

Barkley seems to be nothing more than a backup or future trade bait.

 

[CSB]

Howie should offer him a 3 year 15 mill front loaded deal. He would be crazy to turn that down.

According to this article (On Graham And the Contract Talks - Birds 24/7), sounds like the Eagles offer was 4 years for $24M ($6M/yr) and Graham is looking for something closer to $7-8M/year. Maybe not too far apart. Graham could make a lot of money over the next two weeks...

 

[Wings]

I know football, I know a player and I know how organizations treat players that can play. Its common sense really, with two qbs struggling, barkleys name hasn't come up at all, and with a depleted linebacking corp our first round pick has less snaps than every first round pick in last years draft. 2+2=4 fellas, college stats are meaningless, I only care about translatable tools and smith doesn't have them. It most smith will be a carlos emmons type player, decent in coverage, but poor at everything else.

Me and wings talked about smiths lack of pass rushing tools after we took him and we were both right. I believe my eyes, and the coaches actions. In 3 years neither barkley or smith will be on this roster and id bet money on that.

Smith was pretty explosive in college as a DE, my concern was more his ability in coverage than anything else. I have to say, I wonder if he can play ILB at all.....I know they were toying with the idea.

That being said I wanna draft Shaq Thompson in rd 1 if he is coming out. If he declares he becomes my #1 Target. For those of you that haven't seen this cat play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBh9JsIV-nA ....He can do it all. Strong Safety, ILB, OLB even play RB in a pinch
SnappyTV - Shaq Thompson TD run on Pac-12 Washington created by Pac-12Digital

 

[Northern Eagle]

Smith was pretty explosive in college as a DE, my concern was more his ability in coverage than anything else. I have to say, I wonder if he can play ILB at all.....I know they were toying with the idea.

That being said I wanna draft Shaq Thompson in rd 1 if he is coming out. If he declares he becomes my #1 Target. For those of you that haven't seen this cat play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBh9JsIV-nA ....He can do it all. Strong Safety, ILB, OLB even play RB in a pinch
SnappyTV - Shaq Thompson TD run on Pac-12 Washington created by Pac-12Digital

We're going to have trade up into the top 15 to get him... I like him better than Ryan Shazier, he would be crazy in our defense. He's also an awesome ST player too which is high priority for Chip.

 

[Iggloo]

Smith actually looked pretty good in coverage in preseason, Wings. That's probably his strongest area right now. His weakest area is that he seems to have no clue how to engage linemen. In college he was just faster than most linemen and ran around them with a speed rush to the QB. In the pros, he needs pass rush moves and technique, and he seems not to have any of that right now. Maybe he can learn it and become a stud OLB, but he looks like a project.

 

[deerpathdave]

Its just crazy to be too judgmental on a first or second year players. Some guys take a little time to adjust to the pro game and then turn out really good. The key there is to find the gym rats that will be at the facility 24/7 working on their game.

 

[Speedy]

Its just crazy to be too judgmental on a first or second year players. Some guys take a little time to adjust to the pro game and then turn out really good. The key there is to find the gym rats that will be at the facility 24/7 working on their game.

Dude, smith has no pass rush instinct. Heres the dirty secret no one tell you about pass rushers...

Average pass rushers can learn to be decent, and good ones can learn to be great...

but shitty ones cannot learn to be average. You have to have the basic instincts that dont come from coaching.

brandon graham has it, trent cole had it, jj wat IS IT. smith has a zero iq when it comes to rushing the passer.

He doesn't have the natural pass rusher instinct to slap at the defenders hands, to lean around the edge and rip or swim, he has no violence in his initial contact with lineman, in fact, when I saw the kid, he seemed to ignore the lineman completely as if he didnt even see the dude blocking him.

this notion that every guy drafted just needs coaching to "make it" is crap. We have some really good players.

Beau Allen is a stud (out of position imo)

Mathews (jordan) will be a top 10 WR

Huff could be a valuable weapon if he could catch the ball, and not fumble it when he does get it.

But smith is not a good player, he is a good athlete, but a poor nfl olb. The tape and depth chart dont lie.

Please, name me one linebacker drafted in the furst round the last 3 years that didnt at least rotate in during the season...

I'll wait.

Its great to be a fan, but im not a homer and calling a dud, a dud is needed as much as showing up to a game.

 

[deerpathdave]

James Harrison went undrafted, bounced around for 5 years, and then made 5 pro bowls.

John Randle was a pretty good Pass Rusher who bounced around the league for three years before making 6 pro bowls and the HOF.

James Farrior was an 8th overal pick of the Jets who rarely played for them. 4 years later he made his first of two Pro Bowls for the Steelers and was named their MVP.

Bill Romanowski did not record a single statistic in his rookie year and went on to two pro bowls.

Jesse Armstead hardly saw the field in his first two years and went on to 5 pro bowls.

Bryce Paup hardly played as a rookie and went on to 4 pro bowls.

Jeremiah Trotter had 6 tackles while hardly playing as a rookie.

Harry Carson took two years to crack the Giants starting lineup.

Andre Tippet recorded 100 sacks in his career, but none in his rookie season.

Kevin Greene did not record the first of his 160 sacks until a playoff game in his rookie year.

 

[swat]

James Harrison went undrafted, bounced around for 5 years, and then made 5 pro bowls.

John Randle was a pretty good Pass Rusher who bounced around the league for three years before making 6 pro bowls and the HOF.

James Farrior was an 8th overal pick of the Jets who rarely played for them. 4 years later he made his first of two Pro Bowls for the Steelers and was named their MVP.

Bill Romanowski did not record a single statistic in his rookie year and went on to two pro bowls.

Jesse Armstead hardly saw the field in his first two years and went on to 5 pro bowls.

Bryce Paup hardly played as a rookie and went on to 4 pro bowls.

Jeremiah Trotter had 6 tackles while hardly playing as a rookie.

Harry Carson took two years to crack the Giants starting lineup.

Andre Tippet recorded 100 sacks in his career, but none in his rookie season.

Kevin Greene did not record the first of his 160 sacks until a playoff game in his rookie year.

Stop making stuff up...when someone says they know football, you just stay quiet & listen. Thanks. :rollseyes:

 

[old duke]

I hope Smith makes it big. At this point, it would be encouraging if he at least played on special teams.

 

[PhillyJoker]

James Harrison went undrafted, bounced around for 5 years, and then made 5 pro bowls.

John Randle was a pretty good Pass Rusher who bounced around the league for three years before making 6 pro bowls and the HOF.

James Farrior was an 8th overal pick of the Jets who rarely played for them. 4 years later he made his first of two Pro Bowls for the Steelers and was named their MVP.

Bill Romanowski did not record a single statistic in his rookie year and went on to two pro bowls.

Jesse Armstead hardly saw the field in his first two years and went on to 5 pro bowls.

Bryce Paup hardly played as a rookie and went on to 4 pro bowls.

Jeremiah Trotter had 6 tackles while hardly playing as a rookie.

Harry Carson took two years to crack the Giants starting lineup.

Andre Tippet recorded 100 sacks in his career, but none in his rookie season.

Kevin Greene did not record the first of his 160 sacks until a playoff game in his rookie year.

Ouch, I can feel the heat over here...

 

[djm]

With Cole being out we will see more of him today. I sure hope he plays well.

 

[Speedy]

James Harrison went undrafted, bounced around for 5 years, and then made 5 pro bowls.

John Randle was a pretty good Pass Rusher who bounced around the league for three years before making 6 pro bowls and the HOF.

James Farrior was an 8th overal pick of the Jets who rarely played for them. 4 years later he made his first of two Pro Bowls for the Steelers and was named their MVP.

Bill Romanowski did not record a single statistic in his rookie year and went on to two pro bowls.

Jesse Armstead hardly saw the field in his first two years and went on to 5 pro bowls.

Bryce Paup hardly played as a rookie and went on to 4 pro bowls.

Jeremiah Trotter had 6 tackles while hardly playing as a rookie.

Harry Carson took two years to crack the Giants starting lineup.

Andre Tippet recorded 100 sacks in his career, but none in his rookie season.

Kevin Greene did not record the first of his 160 sacks until a playoff game in his rookie year.

Every player you just mentioned WAS NOT DRAFTED IN THE FIRST ROUND or did get playing time in year one.

Anyone who saw trotter play, knew he would be a stud from day 1.

And not one of those guys were drafted IN THE LAST 7 YEARS.

Thats like me bringing up tom brady as an example of why you should wait until round 5 or later to draft a qb.

Please, name me a... just 1 1st round olb who was perfectly healthy, who could not find at least a rotation on the field.

That is the problem, some of you guys have a low football iq and actually think ever6 eagles draft choice is a future star. I trust my eyes, I trust my experience, I trust SMITHS film.

Not some hypothetical that has nothing to do with the kid we are talking about.

Smith doesn't have it.

Anyone who knows football knows pass rushers have it from day one. You cannot teach the basic instincts that go into pass rushing. You can give em the fundamentals but they will brain dump them when the game starts. I know football, REAL football, and smith will never be a pass rusher, let alone worth of a 1st round pick.

 

[Speedy]

Ouch, I can feel the heat over here...

How so? That had zero to do with the point im making. Not one of those guys were drafted in the first round as a pass rusher. So that post makes no sense. You guys need to pick up the film and watch for yourself. I got blasted last draft when I said the kid wouldn't contribute this year, and I was right. I got blasted when I said we should have gotten roby, and I was right, I got blasted when I said jenkins would be a stud in this system and better than byrd in NO and I got blasted...

I know football...

 

[deerpathdave]

Speedy,

Your basic premise is that pass rushers have it from day 1. But here are ten guys that were among the best in the business and not a one of them showed it on day one. How do you explain that?

 

[deerpathdave]

And by the way. For your just one guy. James Farrier on my list was a first round pick ....8th overall.

 

[Speedy]

Speedy,

Your basic premise is that pass rushers have it from day 1. But here are ten guys that were among the best in the business and not a one of them showed it on day one. How do you explain that?

Untrue, every pass rusher shows the basic instincts on day one. And my point us, smith IS NOT a pass rusher. Pass rush is an instinctual attitude. Its like rebounding in the NBA. You cant teach it, but if there is instinct there you can refine it.

If pass rushing could be taught, then it wouldn't be the most coveted position on the defensive side of the football.

Smith.does.not.have.it.