Dombrowski In, Cherington Out

[SlinkyRedfoot]

This seems kind of foolish to say or you just don't follow baseball that much. Detroit was the laughingstock of the MLB pre-Dombrowski. Since he took over -- Detroit has went to the World Series in 2006 and 2012, then went to the ALCS in 2011, 2012 and 2013. They also won the AL Central in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014.

He has traded for Miguel Cabrera, Anibal Sanchez, Doug Fister, Max Scherzer, David Price, Yoenis Cespedes, Jose Iglesias, etc. etc. etc. Out of all those deals and all those prospects he traded away -- the only one worth a damn now is Andrew Miller and it took him years and years before moving from a starter to the bullpen. I don't want to forget about JD Martinez, who he brought in and gave up nothing to sign. They just talked about him on the radio the other day -- in his last 162 games -- JD Martinez has 50 homeruns. FIFTY. For a guy we signed for nothing.

Hell -- as a Cleveland fan -- I'd think you hate him for trading you nothing to get Jhonny Peralta, who went on to be a two time all-star SS with the Tigers in the 3 years we had him.

There is a reason you had multiple teams in a bidding war for Dombrowski to be their GM. If he wants a player, he gets a deal done. He is very good at sacrificing 'prospects' to bring in young, legit MLB talents and seems to have an uncanny ability to sell prospects when they are at an all time high in value, and then they come back to earth once they are gone.

While Dombrowski gets credit for Cabrera being in Detroit -- he was also the GM who outbid everyone to sign Cabrera for 1.6 million as a 16 year old when he was at Miami.

If there is one issue I had with Dombrowski -- it is how his bullpen moves never seemed to work, but it wasn't for a lack of effort. Joe Nathan was signed after a career year pitching in Texas and he was horrendous. He traded for Joakim Soria, who had a 2.13 ERA last year and he came in and was horrible. Bruce Rondon was supposed to be our closer in waiting, and he looks the part throwing 100+ MPH, but he has been horrible. They have tried year after year to upgrade the bullpen and nothing seemed to work.

As far as not winning a world series. That is based more on getting hot at the right time than anything else. Detroit, unfortunately, never seemed to get hot at the right time. They still were one of the best teams in the MLB the last few years and have the players to get back to the top, with the addition of a few pitchers.

TL;DR.

He significantly outspent his divisional rivals and would barely win a weak division. Overrated. Look at the shit show he left you guys with. I'm sad he's going.

 

[Voltaire26]

TL;DR.

He significantly outspent his divisional rivals and would barely win a weak division. Overrated. Look at the shit show he left you guys with. I'm sad he's going.

I have no problem with what we were left. The Tigers are poised for good things next year. I have no hard feelings with Dombrowski except he went to Boston, but that's my issue.

 

[da55bums]

Dave D,

His entire career, you can say Miguel Cabrera was part of it...so he was successful because he hitched his ride to a really damn good horse, pretty smart actually. Think Boston had a GM like that when Ted Williams was playing. Let see what horse he can latch on to in Boston "Stanton"...DD gets deals from the Marlins.

Its Boston-they will give him a blank check just like they did in Detroit...not tough for any GM to build a playoff team like that. Yes he will make the playoffs at some point.

Although I do agree DD's strength is deal prospects away, most "prospects" never work out, getting MLB level talent is always a better play.

He really just isn't good at building a complete team

Terrible trade in getting Price- another SP is NOT what Det's weakness was - cost 1rd knock out- DD was more concerned about topping Billy Beane that he wasn't even looking at what his team really needed.
Not resigning Peralta- why? absolutely no point not to,
Not resigning Benoit- why? best reliever in his tenure, ahhh let him walk, I can get cheaper relievers...worked well, made him desperate to sign aged past their prime Nathan and Soria
Not resigning Max- one of the best pitchers in baseball, going to have to get someone
trading Fister away- just horrible
trading away A Garcia- positional trade really for Enrique
Kept Avila catching- because his dad was in the office down the hall.
Kept Bradon Inge on the field- just brutally bad decision
Kept Phil Coke- He has to know that he isn't the only lefty on the planet.
Should have eliminated every player from the 2003 season,
not even close to all during his run

He won't win, he couldn't do it with Miggy and Verlander at their peaks and had no idea how to build a team around them. He will make the team competitive, but Boston usually is, by selling all the prospects, spending the max he is allowed and get you some division titles. The guy has no idea how to look at a team midseason before the trade deadline and actual address the weakest parts of his team. Watched him fail at it for years with really good teams, he proved you don't win with the best players in the league if you play the worst with them.

 

[navamind]

Dombrowski's trades:

Rating every trade made by Dave Dombrowski with the Tigers

 

[navamind]

Trading Fister wasn't necessarily bad. Fister was great in his brief time with the Tigers, but his skills have declined and he actually lost his rotation spot. Fister's strikeout rate has seen a huge dip, along with his groundball rate. His FIP/xFIP (4.68/4.47, both mediocre marks) are way up from where they were in 2012-13 (both in the 3.20-3.40 range). The problem with the Fister trade was the underwhelming return they got, save for Ray (who was traded to the Diamondbacks before showing promise at the MLB level).

 

[navamind]

A bullpen isn't as easy to fix as you'd think, given how volatile relief pitchers are on a year-to-year basis.

 

[navamind]

And for all the prospects Dombrowski gave up in trades, not very many of them went on to be productive major leaguers. The best ones he gave up were, what, Jurrjens (who had three good, albeit fluky years), Maybin and Andrew Miller?

One of the biggest problems with Cherington was that he seemed to be very reluctant to part with them in a trade.

 

[da55bums]

And for all the prospects Dombrowski gave up in trades, not very many of them went on to be productive major leaguers. The best ones he gave up were, what, Jurrjens (who had three good, albeit fluky years), Maybin and Andrew Miller?

One of the biggest problems with Cherington was that he seemed to be very reluctant to part with them in a trade.

very true, so far they haven't but DD did draft them though, which is another area he was awful at.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Trading Fister wasn't necessarily bad.

Trading Fister wasn't my issue. It was what he got in return, which consists of basically nothing. We got Robbie Ray, who struggled in the AL with Detroit and was traded. Ian Krol, who is worthless thus far. Lastly Steve Lombardozzi -- who never even played with the team.

The good -- He traded Fister when his value was at its peak. The bad -- The players he received in the deal. Robbie Ray was the center piece of the deal. He started a half dozen games or so for Detroit and had an ERA north of 8.00. I think getting traded to the NL will do wonders for him. He seems to be doing alright with the Diamondbacks this year despite a 3-9 record.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

very true, so far they haven't but DD did draft them though, which is another area he was awful at.

while i do agree -- dombrowski wasn't the best at drafting talent. in his defense -- the blame falls on the scouting team assembled by the team. They are the guys putting in the leg work, analyzing talent and reporting back to the GM.

for example -- I gave credit to dombrowski for JD Martinez, but it was Al Avila who recommended signing Martinez. JD played high school ball with his son and they grew up together. Dombrowski just pulled the trigger after Avila told him everything.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

One of the biggest problems with Cherington was that he seemed to be very reluctant to part with them in a trade.

I guarantee you will not have to worry about that with Dombrowski. "Prospects" in the Detroit system were nothing more than trade bait to acquire MLB ready talent. About the only Tiger prospect I've ever heard they wouldn't deal was Castellanos.

It is extremely entertaining to have your team involved in any type of major deal going down in the MLB, which Boston will be now with Dombrowski as their GM.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

A bullpen isn't as easy to fix as you'd think, given how volatile relief pitchers are on a year-to-year basis.

Agree -- Dombrowski has tried multiple times to revamp the bullpen. Nothing seemed to work, other than the year Valverde went 48 for 48 in save opportunities.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Terrible trade in getting Price- another SP is NOT what Det's weakness was - cost 1rd knock out- DD was more concerned about topping Billy Beane that he wasn't even looking at what his team really needed.
Not resigning Peralta- why? absolutely no point not to,
Not resigning Benoit- why? best reliever in his tenure, ahhh let him walk, I can get cheaper relievers...worked well, made him desperate to sign aged past their prime Nathan and Soria
Not resigning Max- one of the best pitchers in baseball, going to have to get someone
trading Fister away- just horrible
trading away A Garcia- positional trade really for Enrique
Kept Avila catching- because his dad was in the office down the hall.
Kept Bradon Inge on the field- just brutally bad decision
Kept Phil Coke- He has to know that he isn't the only lefty on the planet.
Should have eliminated every player from the 2003 season,
not even close to all during his run

Detroit didn't lose to Baltimore because of our bullpen. The bats didn't come thru.

Peralta was a statue at SS. He caught everything hit at him, but had no range at all.

Benoit -- Rondon was supposed to be the guy to replace him. Detroit tried to re-sign him, SD offered more money. Detroit signed Nathan coming off a monster year with Texas. Soria was another guy who was having a great year when we traded for them. Neither worked out, though Soria was 1000 times better this year.

Scherzer -- Detroit offered him like 175 million. Max was going to the highest bidder and it was Washington.
A.Garcia -- I'm completely content trading Garcia and getting Iglesias in return.

Don't have time for the rest -- have to run. I will finish later. I agree on Inge and Coke though.

 

[navamind]

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't get the Avisail Garcia hype at all.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't get the Avisail Garcia hype at all.

I understand why he was getting hype, as he has all the tools. He has a cannon arm, can run, hit around .300 in the minors and has the size (he looks like Miguel Cabrera's little brother).

The things is -- MLB pitching is completely different. Can he make the adjustments, will he finally hit for power. He is only 24 years old, so he has time, but I think getting traded away from Cabrera (who had taken him under his wing) is going to hurt his development.

 

[navamind]

I think Dombrowski is a moron. I'm excited that he's now with the Red Sox.

Me too.

 

[The Q]

Me too.

#metoo

 

[The Q]

Detroit didn't lose to Baltimore because of our bullpen. The bats didn't come thru.

Peralta was a statue at SS. He caught everything hit at him, but had no range at all.

Benoit -- Rondon was supposed to be the guy to replace him. Detroit tried to re-sign him, SD offered more money. Detroit signed Nathan coming off a monster year with Texas. Soria was another guy who was having a great year when we traded for them. Neither worked out, though Soria was 1000 times better this year.

Scherzer -- Detroit offered him like 175 million. Max was going to the highest bidder and it was Washington.
A.Garcia -- I'm completely content trading Garcia and getting Iglesias in return.

Don't have time for the rest -- have to run. I will finish later. I agree on Inge and Coke though.

To be fair, the money at 175m v. the 210 deferred over 15 years is probably closer than it seems at first glance.

 

[flyerhawk]

Me too.

@SlinkyRedfoot is a good guy. He'll eat his crow, albeit with a fair amount of salt.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't get the Avisail Garcia hype at all.

It's all cuz he fucked Mrs Prince Fielder