Does Shaun Alexander make HOF?

[4down20]

It's not the Hall of TDs in case you haven't heard. It's the Hall of Fame.

Yeah, TD's are worthless in football.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

Yeah, TD's are worthless in football.

I never said they were worthless just pointed out TDs don't guarantee a trip to the hall. Alexander was solid but not hall worthy. He was average in the playoffs and that might be a stretch description. Heck he had one game with like 20 Att. for 40 YRDS. And 3TDs. Not reall a great line for a back.

 

[SonnyCID]

I never said they were worthless just pointed out TDs don't guarantee a trip to the hall. Alexander was solid but not hall worthy. He was average in the playoffs and that might be a stretch description. Heck he had one game with like 20 Att. for 40 YRDS. And 3TDs. Not reall a great line for a back.

I'll take the TDs considering that he still has more yards than Gore and slightly less than Jackson.

Nobody is saying that the TDs make him a HOFer. I've even said that he's not. But neither is Gore and Jackson, and I think it's funny that you brush aside him having almost twice as many TDs as either of them.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

I'll take the TDs considering that he still has more yards than Gore and slightly less than Jackson.

Nobody is saying that the TDs make him a HOFer. I've even said that he's not. But neither is Gore and Jackson, and I think it's funny that you brush aside him having almost twice as many TDs as either of them.

Huh? Not sure how this confuses you but let's try again. 1. I don't think either Gore or Jackson are HOF canidates at this point and I thought I made that clear. 2. I'm not brushing aside shit Alexander had a knack for scoring. See the playoff stat line I posted for him? 20 carries 40 yards 3 TDS! That's how I remember Alexander being. He just wasn't a big game back, kind of soft when it mattered. Yeah he always seemed to score but there is more to it than scoring. That doesn't mean I'm not taking into account the scoring it just means I'm not only looking at the TDs.

 

[Black Belt Disciple]

It's not the Hall of TDs in case you haven't heard. It's the Hall of Fame.

Super Doosher alert just went off.

 

[SonnyCID]

Huh? Not sure how this confuses you but let's try again. 1. I don't think either Gore or Jackson are HOF canidates at this point and I thought I made that clear. 2. I'm not brushing aside shit Alexander had a knack for scoring. See the playoff stat line I posted for him? 20 carries 40 yards 3 TDS! That's how I remember Alexander being. He just wasn't a big game back, kind of soft when it mattered. Yeah he always seemed to score but there is more to it than scoring. That doesn't mean I'm not taking into account the scoring it just means I'm not only looking at the TDs.

You said they're more deserving...... Why?

Did you know that the same criticisms that you make against SA you could use against Bettis. I bet you wont though. Alexander averaged more yards and TDs per game than him in the playoffs.

 

[USCDoom]

Granted I'm a Hawks fan but this just seems like such an unknown to me. I feel like Shuan was one of the fastest rise and demise players at the RB position in the NFL. His #s end of day are still impressive.

100 RUSHING TDs (more than Barry Sanders and other greats) and almost 10,000 yards. MVP for one season.

The stats point to the fact that he should be in, but the fact he ran behind quite possibly the best O-Line assembled in the last 20 years points otherwise.

What's everyone's thoughts? Should he be in or not? I'm frankly on the fence. Part of me sees why he's in the discussion, but probably more of me sees why he isn't (God O-Line, offensive HC mastermind at WCO, little bit of a soft runner (ain't no Lynch), etc.).

To put in context, his #s are fairly similar to Franco Harris. Same TDs, a couple thousand less yards, but more YPC. Very similar in size/weight.

I will compare the stats of Alexander to an unnamed player.

Alexander
2,187 Carries
9,453 Yards
4.4 YPCarry
100 TDs
215 Catches
1,520 Yards
12 TDs

Unnamed Player
2,669 Carries
10,967 Yards
4.1 YPCarry
49 TDs
510 Catches
4,339 Yards
15 TDs



So is Warrick Dunn a Hall of Famer?? Considering he ran behind some of the worst Offensive lines...

 

[Ghoonsquad]

You said they're more deserving...... Why?

Did you know that the same criticisms that you make against SA you could use against Bettis. I bet you wont though. Alexander averaged more yards and TDs per game than him in the playoffs.

In my opinion both are better backs. Can't say it enough Alexander was pretty average in the playoffs. Gore has so far been anything but average in the playoffs. And to be fair Jackson has been average in the playoffs but has only played in two games. Both backs are still playing so both are going to end up with better numbers when its all said and done.(Except for TDs) both backs have been physically dominate players in terms of toughness. I just can't say he same for Alexander. Numbers are numbers and don't always tell the whole story. See single season rec. TDs for example. If I was a GM and starting a team and has a choice between these three backs Alexander would be my last choice. That's doesn't mean I think he was bad, because I don't. I have said he was a solid NFL back.

 

[andyham7]

Not yet, is all I know for sure! Maybe never, but he was good back, not without some close comparison and thought. i think he is at least 5 -7 yrs out, if he goes at all.

 

[andyham7]

The 100 rushing TDs might be deciding factor, I dont care who ya are or how ya did it!

 

[Ghoonsquad]

You said they're more deserving...... Why?

Did you know that the same criticisms that you make against SA you could use against Bettis. I bet you wont though. Alexander averaged more yards and TDs per game than him in the playoffs.

Alexander didn't average more yards than Bettis in the playoffs, and he didn't have more TDs. Bettis also end his career ranked where in rushing yards?

 

[SonnyCID]

Alexander didn't average more yards than Bettis in the playoffs, and he didn't have more TDs. Bettis also end his career ranked where in rushing yards?

Jerome Bettis Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com 48.1 yards, .64 TDs
Shaun Alexander Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com 62.7 yards, .89 TDs

You have the internet, obviously. Let's try using it instead of just blindly denying facts.

And yards? It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Yards, right?

Seriously, I think Bettis a HOFer in 5 years or so. But by your own criteria, his playoff averages dont help him any. He even had one game where he had 9 rushes for 8 yards, "not really a great line for a back", as you would say.

 

[TexasMan]

The only thing I remembered about Alexander was he was the best and hardest running RB you never heard about for about 5 years, then he got a big fat contract an all of the sudden he started falling down at the first sight of a DLineman.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

Jerome Bettis Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com 48.1 yards, .64 TDs
Shaun Alexander Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com 62.7 yards, .89 TDs

You have the internet, obviously. Let's try using it instead of just blindly denying facts.

And yards? It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Yards, right?

Seriously, I think Bettis a HOFer in 5 years or so. But by your own criteria, his playoff averages dont help him any. He even had one game where he had 9 rushes for 8 yards, "not really a great line for a back", as you would say.

First off Bettis averaged 3.39 per carry Alexander didn't. Bettis had more TDs in the playoffs as well. Bettis also finished his career at number 5 all time in rushing yards. Alexander is number 30 right now. I just have a hard time putting a guy in who ranks number 30 all time combined with that playoff resume in the hall. That's my "criteria" combined with the fact injury and age didn't really drive him out of the game. His play did. He wanted to continue to play its nobody wanted him. That says something don't you think?

 

[SonnyCID]

First off Bettis averaged 3.39 per carry Alexander didn't. Bettis had more TDs in the playoffs as well. Bettis also finished his career at number 5 all time in rushing yards. Alexander is number 30 right now. I just have a hard time putting a guy in who ranks number 30 all time combined with that playoff resume in the hall. That's my "criteria" combined with the fact injury and age didn't really drive him out of the game. His play did. He wanted to continue to play its nobody wanted him. That says something don't you think?

Sure. Like I said, Bettis is easily a HOFer. Alexander isn't.

But he in had one more TD in five more games... and that impresses you so much that your criticism for one guy doesn't go for another. He averaged .05 more YPC, wow!

I agree that Bettis is in and Alexander is not. But your argument is full of slippery slopes.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

Sure. Like I said, Bettis is easily a HOFer. Alexander isn't.

But he in had one more TD in five more games... and that impresses you so much that your criticism for one guy doesn't go for another. He averaged .05 more YPC, wow!

I agree that Bettis is in and Alexander is not. But your argument is full of slippery slopes.

All arguments are slippery slopes. I mean reality is your argument is slippery. Four of those playoff games Bettis was either injured or didn't even play, yet your counting them. Bettis also averaged only 3.9 for his career. Bettis was a grinder, he made his money beating up on defenses. They really were two totally different backs. Bettis also ended up with 91 TDs for his career top 5 in yardage all time etc......simple put when everything is considered Bettis resume is better. When everything is considered Alexander's resume doesn't stack up.

 

[SonnyCID]

All arguments are slippery slopes. I mean reality is your argument is slippery. Four of those playoff games Bettis was either injured or didn't even play, yet your counting them. Bettis also averaged only 3.9 for his career. Bettis was a grinder, he made his money beating up on defenses. They really were two totally different backs. Bettis also ended up with 91 TDs for his career top 5 in yardage all time etc......simple put when everything is considered Bettis resume is better. When everything is considered Alexander's resume doesn't stack up.

I'm counting those games because they're on the record. Just like I'm counting Alexander's. I'm not nit-picking games that he either of them were hurt. You're looking for excuses to sugar coat Bettis being less effective in the playoffs but criticize Alexander for it. I'm sure you're a great guy and all but you're being a hypocrite. If Alexander should be taken down a notch because of his playoff performances, so should Bettis.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

I'm counting those games because they're on the record. Just like I'm counting Alexander's. I'm not nit-picking games that he either of them were hurt. You're looking for excuses to sugar coat Bettis being less effective in the playoffs but criticize Alexander for it. I'm sure you're a great guy and all but you're being a hypocrite. If Alexander should be taken down a notch because of his playoff performances, so should Bettis.

Interesting you do realize for example they count games if your on the roster even if you don't suit up or play right? So 2001 Ravens game where he didnt play or dress and adding that to his average for game totals doesn't really tell a accurate story does it? That why most people go by yards per carry but hey you play whatever game you need. And I'm not making excuses for Bettis his playoff yards and averages were right there with his career averages. And even if you want to use his playoffs against him I would be fine with that. He still finished top 5 in yardage all time and had 91 TDs and a championship. He also played at a high level and left the game because he decided, unlike Alexander he left because there were no takers. All Alexander has is TDs, 30th all time and dropping, and numbers that were a serious drop off in the playoffs. I take all that in he isn't a HOF player. You know again in your lust to troll I really don't get it. You say you don't feel he is a HOF player yet piss and moan I feel the sameway. I have said I think he was a solid NFL back but that's not good enough for you. You say you think Bettis is a HOF player but arguing that he shouldn't be. Why? Who's knows to be honest it's not like I said playoff performance was the only thing that matters did I? Nope not even close yet that's what your clinging to. Join a book club it will help with your reading comp I think that's the major problem here.

 

[SonnyCID]

Interesting you do realize for example they count games if your on the roster even if you don't suit up or play right? So 2001 Ravens game where he didnt play or dress and adding that to his average for game totals doesn't really tell a accurate story does it? That why most people go by yards per carry but hey you play whatever game you need. And I'm not making excuses for Bettis his playoff yards and averages were right there with his career averages. And even if you want to use his playoffs against him I would be fine with that. He still finished top 5 in yardage all time and had 91 TDs and a championship. He also played at a high level and left the game because he decided, unlike Alexander he left because there were no takers. All Alexander has is TDs, 30th all time and dropping, and numbers that were a serious drop off in the playoffs. I take all that in he isn't a HOF player. You know again in your lust to troll I really don't get it. You say you don't feel he is a HOF player yet piss and moan I feel the sameway. I have said I think he was a solid NFL back but that's not good enough for you. You say you think Bettis is a HOF player but arguing that he shouldn't be. Why? Who's knows to be honest it's not like I said playoff performance was the only thing that matters did I? Nope not even close yet that's what your clinging to. Join a book club it will help with your reading comp I think that's the major problem here.

I'm just trying to keep you consistent here. You said that SA was horrible in the playoffs, fair enough.... But on that same coin, so was Bettis, right? Even if you take out that ONE game.

If you want to hang on to .05 ypc difference as a favoring factor so be it.

 

[Ghoonsquad]

I'm just trying to keep you consistent here. You said that SA was horrible in the playoffs, fair enough.... But on that same coin, so was Bettis, right? Even if you take out that ONE game.

If you want to hang on to .05 ypc difference as a favoring factor so be it.

Um again I'm being consistent. I have said even if you want to hold Bettis playoff stats against him, I'm fine with it. He is still a hall of fame based. He makes it based on finishing top 5 all time in yards, 90+ TDs a ring etc..... All Alexander has is TDs. Final rank? Weak. Playoff stats? Weak. Longevity? Weak. TDs? Great. Does that resume all add up to HOF? I say no. And for me I don't know it's a debate. Because I pointed out his playoff numbers? Most backs number will drop in playoffs because of defenses and focus of stopping the run. Alexander's number took a bigger than Bettis. But it really does matter does it? Because as I have said time and again hold it against Bettis I'm fine with that. He is still a HOF back based on everything else.