Did you guys hear this?

[Sharkinva]

Do we think that Cousins or his agent hate the organization? Can someone explain to me why Cousins would rather play for San Fran than the Skins? San Fran is an unmitigated disaster and a laughing stock of the NFL. I guess I am missing something here. Is it really about money then?

Cousins wants to go some place where he is actually WANTED. The NFL shows level of want in $$ signs. Also looking at the Head coach, the only place I could see Cousins wanting to be more than DC, is with Kyle. The Niners are a mess, but Kyle has made the offense better at every stop. And a betting man would think that within two years the Niners will be sporting a top ten unit on offense.

I dont think either hate the Skins, but there have got to be some hard feelings on the side of Cousins for the way the team has treated him over the past 3-4 years. I know people will say well they gave him $20m last year which aint too bad. But seriously think about what they would have done if the QB they wanted to succeed had given them a year like Kirk did in 2015.

Kirk wants the team to SHOW they want him here, not be some one they settled for because they had no choice and didnt really want to pay to begin with.

 

[duke1861]

Did anyone hear Shanahan say Cousins is the best of the good QBs which start after 7 better than good QBs. Looks to me like he isn't wanting anyone to give up two No. 1's.

We need to fleece SF...I have no idea why we would do them any favors here. The media is almost making it seem like we are giving Shanny a good deal or something.

 

[duke1861]

Cousins wants to go some place where he is actually WANTED. The NFL shows level of want in $$ signs. Also looking at the Head coach, the only place I could see Cousins wanting to be more than DC, is with Kyle. The Niners are a mess, but Kyle has made the offense better at every stop. And a betting man would think that within two years the Niners will be sporting a top ten unit on offense.

I dont think either hate the Skins, but there have got to be some hard feelings on the side of Cousins for the way the team has treated him over the past 3-4 years. I know people will say well they gave him $20m last year which aint too bad. But seriously think about what they would have done if the QB they wanted to succeed had given them a year like Kirk did in 2015.

Kirk wants the team to SHOW they want him here, not be some one they settled for because they had no choice and didnt really want to pay to begin with.

Good point Shark. I guess my next question is WHY is this organization not showing that they want Kirk here? I don't get it myself. Do they honestly believe there are better options out there? Do they think he is over-rated? Surely SM/Allen understand that you must have great QB play to win in this league. IF they don't want Cousins...who do they want?

 

[Sharkinva]

We need to fleece SF...I have no idea why we would do them any favors here. The media is almost making it seem like we are giving Shanny a good deal or something.

Duke... the Media realizes something most Skins fans and no Cousins hater wants to admit.

The Skins have almost no leverage here.

If they expect to get anything for Cousins, they have to tag him.

Once they tag him, Cousins has pretty much all the leverage. Because if he signs the tender the Skins cant force trade him to some place he doesnt want to go. Once Kirk Signs, if they trade him to some place he does want to go, the Skins cant really say.. well we wont trade him for less than two firsts. Because the team getting Cousins can say... fine keep him and his Franchise tag $24M, we can wait.

If Cousins doesnt sign the tender, he is under no obligation to talk to or sign with a team that DOES want to give up the two first rounders.

 

[Sharkinva]

Good point Shark. I guess my next question is WHY is this organization not showing that they want Kirk here? I don't get it myself. Do they honestly believe there are better options out there? Do they think he is over-rated? Surely SM/Allen understand that you must have great QB play to win in this league. IF they don't want Cousins...who do they want?

Thats the $95M question Duke. Personally I dont think its a who so much as a what. And what they want is a face of the franchise that excites them. Kirk aint that.

 

[duke1861]

Thats the $95M question Duke. Personally I dont think its a who so much as a what. And what they want is a face of the franchise that excites them. Kirk aint that.

This can get ugly quick I am afraid. I could not care less if we have 70 million in CAP room. If we roll McCoy or a rookie out there...does it make a difference?

Another thing I don't get is how teams are "going to offer the moon" for Garoppollo but the best deal for the Skins is #17 and Cousins for the #2? And what has Garoppollo proven exactly???

I will be honest, I cannot wrap my brain around what the media is trying to report and pass off as fact anymore. So much of it is contradictory.

 

[Sharkinva]

This can get ugly quick I am afraid. I could not care less if we have 70 million in CAP room. If we roll McCoy or a rookie out there...does it make a difference?

Another thing I don't get is how teams are "going to offer the moon" for Garoppollo but the best deal for the Skins is #17 and Cousins for the #2? And what has Garoppollo proven exactly???

I will be honest, I cannot wrap my brain around what the media is trying to report and pass off as fact anymore. So much of it is contradictory.

As for question #1, it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If the plan is to simply NOT have Kirk under center... and warm body will do. If the GM honestly thinks long term we are better off without Kirk, again any warm body will do because that also has to be a sign that the Coach had better get it done or he is out as well.

Grap is a different story. A team MIGHT have to give up a 1st rounder, but no one said it had to be in this years draft. So the Pats might get a 1st in 2018 for Grap. But they also arent on the hook for $90M in guaranteed money. Grap has one year left on his deal, so a team COULD take two years to figure out if he is the guy, and the franchise tag for a QB in 2020 is likely to be right around what it would cost to tag Kirk in 2018.

Lastly most of this is speculation and educated guess work on the medias part. But logically looking at where we are, if we deal Kirk the odds of us getting two firsts from a team where Kirk might want to go are slim. Mainly because the Skins put themselves in a bad position on this one. And any one looking at it logically can see that.

 

[duke1861]

As for question #1, it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If the plan is to simply NOT have Kirk under center... and warm body will do. If the GM honestly thinks long term we are better off without Kirk, again any warm body will do because that also has to be a sign that the Coach had better get it done or he is out as well.

Grap is a different story. A team MIGHT have to give up a 1st rounder, but no one said it had to be in this years draft. So the Pats might get a 1st in 2018 for Grap. But they also arent on the hook for $90M in guaranteed money. Grap has one year left on his deal, so a team COULD take two years to figure out if he is the guy, and the franchise tag for a QB in 2020 is likely to be right around what it would cost to tag Kirk in 2018.

Lastly most of this is speculation and educated guess work on the medias part. But logically looking at where we are, if we deal Kirk the odds of us getting two firsts from a team where Kirk might want to go are slim. Mainly because the Skins put themselves in a bad position on this one. And any one looking at it logically can see that.

Makes sense. I am trying to logically follow what the front office is trying to do here but it makes little to no sense at this time. They need to get a deal done...that is the best course of action but apparently they want to play chicken.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Duke... the Media realizes something most Skins fans and no Cousins hater wants to admit.

The Skins have almost no leverage here.

If they expect to get anything for Cousins, they have to tag him.

Once they tag him, Cousins has pretty much all the leverage. Because if he signs the tender the Skins cant force trade him to some place he doesnt want to go. Once Kirk Signs, if they trade him to some place he does want to go, the Skins cant really say.. well we wont trade him for less than two firsts. Because the team getting Cousins can say... fine keep him and his Franchise tag $24M, we can wait.

If Cousins doesnt sign the tender, he is under no obligation to talk to or sign with a team that DOES want to give up the two first rounders.

Impressive knowledge of this situation -- But to be fair, what percentage would you put on Cousins NOT signing the tender ASAP?

 

[Sharkinva]

Impressive knowledge of this situation -- But to be fair, what percentage would you put on Cousins NOT signing the tender ASAP?

Honestly I would say there is an 80% likelihood that he talks to at least one other team before signing the tender. Its in his best interest to not sign it right away. He will probably talk to the Niners and the Jets. MAybe the Bills if they have released Taylor.

Even if all three teams are interested, I dont think any of them are going to simply hand over two first rounders, especially considering all pick in the top ten. They will try to negotiate the compensation to the Redskins down first. The reason why i think they will be successful in getting Kirk for less than the two first rounders is, its already been done and the redskins were involved that time too.

Simply put, the Skins can try and get a 2nd, or maybe even a first for Cousins. But if they get greedy and teams balk, they risk Cousins playing on the tag and the most they get is a 3rd rounder in 2019. Sadly the most logical outcome if they move Kirk is We get the #2 over all, and the Niners get Kirk and the #17.... they might sweeten the deal by throwing in a conditional 3rd in 2018 that could become a first if the Niners do really really well this year.

 

[Stymietee]

Hey you can take me out your crosshair, I'm just the messenger, lol. I didn't know the non-exclusive tag could be negociated. learning new stuff all the time, I did say some time back that if a unproven rookie could get two 1st rounders, i think Cousins "could" too. Obviously I want Cousins back, but if he's getting traded, you'd expect to have two 1st rounders in 2017 and 2018 to make up for the massive loss. Or -- For those that don't feel he's a big loss -- the advantage you would be giving to another NFC team standing in your way to the superbowl.

Sorry man, that posting was not aimed at you. If it came out that way then it was unintentional.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Honestly I would say there is an 80% likelihood that he talks to at least one other team before signing the tender. Its in his best interest to not sign it right away. He will probably talk to the Niners and the Jets. MAybe the Bills if they have released Taylor.

Even if all three teams are interested, I dont think any of them are going to simply hand over two first rounders, especially considering all pick in the top ten. They will try to negotiate the compensation to the Redskins down first. The reason why i think they will be successful in getting Kirk for less than the two first rounders is, its already been done and the redskins were involved that time too.

Simply put, the Skins can try and get a 2nd, or maybe even a first for Cousins. But if they get greedy and teams balk, they risk Cousins playing on the tag and the most they get is a 3rd rounder in 2019. Sadly the most logical outcome if they move Kirk is We get the #2 over all, and the Niners get Kirk and the #17.... they might sweeten the deal by throwing in a conditional 3rd in 2018 that could become a first if the Niners do really really well this year.

Even if you are attempting to sway, its a strong argument. Some say, because more than one team may go after Kirk, two 1st rounders are basically a given. As a common fan, that does dabble in research from time to time -- two 1st rounders make sense, even though we didn't get that in the past. What I will say is at minimum - if the Redskins can't get the #2 for Cousins straight up(from S.F.) negotiate with the next team.(yes, even if that means you get less)

 

[Sharkinva]

Even if you are attempting to sway, its a strong argument. Some say, because more than one team may go after Kirk, two 1st rounders are basically a given. As a common fan, that does dabble in research from time to time -- two 1st rounders make sense, even though we didn't get that in the past. What I will say is at minimum - if the Redskins can't get the #2 for Cousins straight up(from S.F.) negotiate with the next team.(yes, even if that means you get less)

Again I will point out, even if Kirk talks to every team in the league, Kirk ultimately gets to decide what offer sheet he signs if any. So lets stick with everyone current wetdream scenario and say Kirk DOES want to sign with the Niners. The Niners can simply say to the Skins, we will sign him to an offer sheet under two conditions.

1. You take alot less than two first rounders
2. You agree you wont match the offer sheet we sign him to.

The Skins would be hard pressed to go back on an agreement because it would sour them to any future potential trades if word got out they pulled a double cross on the Niners. And compensation only goes into effect once Kirk signs an offer sheet. So the bidding war people are hoping for wont happen unless Kirk allows it to happen, and some how I dont think his agent or Kirk are that stupid to try and do the redskins a solid.

read this...

Tag-and-trade hinges on Kirk Cousins long-term contract

 

[Stymietee]

Again I will point out, even if Kirk talks to every team in the league, Kirk ultimately gets to decide what offer sheet he signs if any. So lets stick with everyone current wetdream scenario and say Kirk DOES want to sign with the Niners. The Niners can simply say to the Skins, we will sign him to an offer sheet under two conditions.

1. You take alot less than two first rounders
2. You agree you wont match the offer sheet we sign him to.

The Skins would be hard pressed to go back on an agreement because it would sour them to any future potential trades if word got out they pulled a double cross on the Niners. And compensation only goes into effect once Kirk signs an offer sheet. So the bidding war people are hoping for wont happen unless Kirk allows it to happen, and some how I dont think his agent or Kirk are that stupid to try and do the redskins a solid.

read this...

Tag-and-trade hinges on Kirk Cousins long-term contract

Not exactly, this for Kirk is unlike anything that he's experienced in his football life. He gets to be wooed....a professional style recruiting exercise. No argument from me that he has the ultimate say, but football players are basically mercenaries for hire, throw enough money at them and see how fast they go for it. To be clear, Kirk might be a very fine fellow, but if the choices come down to an extra 2m guarantee vs playing on a crummy team they will pinch their noses and take the cash. #AlbertHaynesworth.

The proper answers to your conditions are:

1. You take alot less than two first rounders....(bite me)

2. You agree you wont match the offer sheet we sign him to....("F" you!!)

 

[Sharkinva]

Not exactly, this for Kirk is unlike anything that he's experienced in his football life. He gets to be wooed....a professional style recruiting exercise. No argument from me that he has the ultimate say, but football players are basically mercenaries for hire, throw enough money at them and see how fast they go for it. To be clear, Kirk might be a very fine fellow, but if the choices come down to an extra 2m guarantee vs playing on a crummy team they will pinch their noses and take the cash. #AlbertHaynesworth.

The proper answers to your conditions are:

1. You take alot less than two first rounders....(bite me)

2. You agree you wont match the offer sheet we sign him to....("F" you!!)

So you would be willing to get stuck with a player you dont want and will lose in a year for nothing then??

Cool this is going to be interesting to watch it play out. We aint getting two first rounders for Kirk. Bank it.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Again I will point out, even if Kirk talks to every team in the league, Kirk ultimately gets to decide what offer sheet he signs if any. So lets stick with everyone current wetdream scenario and say Kirk DOES want to sign with the Niners. The Niners can simply say to the Skins, we will sign him to an offer sheet under two conditions.

1. You take alot less than two first rounders
2. You agree you wont match the offer sheet we sign him to.

The Skins would be hard pressed to go back on an agreement because it would sour them to any future potential trades if word got out they pulled a double cross on the Niners. And compensation only goes into effect once Kirk signs an offer sheet. So the bidding war people are hoping for wont happen unless Kirk allows it to happen, and some how I dont think his agent or Kirk are that stupid to try and do the redskins a solid.

read this...

Tag-and-trade hinges on Kirk Cousins long-term contract

If Lynch approached me with some mess like that I'd be like BYE FELICIA
Seriously, I don't doubt the 49ers can do this, but I don't think Synder is going to let Kirk's agent and another organization completely have all the leverage. Again, this sounds overly complicated and I'm just going by what I assume is an option. I'm not doubting what you've said or the references. If you're right, I finally understand the gravity of what is going to happen with this non-exclusive tag

 

[Stymietee]

So you would be willing to get stuck with a player you dont want and will lose in a year for nothing then??

Cool this is going to be interesting to watch it play out. We aint getting two first rounders for Kirk. Bank it.

I never said that we would get two 1sts, just that it's where we start....if we get one and a boatload as compensation for the other, no problem for me. As I've said, the announcement is forthcoming on a new contract.

BTW: He's wanted here, they just can't agree to terms.

 

[Sharkinva]

If Lynch approached me with some mess like that I'd be like BYE FELICIA
Seriously, I don't doubt the 49ers can do this, but I don't think Synder is going to let Kirk's agent and another organization completely have all the leverage. Again, this sounds overly complicated and I'm just going by what I assume is an option. I'm not doubting what you've said or the references. If you're right, I finally understand the gravity of what is going to happen with this non-exclusive tag

Thats the thing about leverage... no one willingly gives it up. You either have it or you dont. And in this situation, washington has very little.

 

[redskin4209]

I have already given my thoughts about KC and I agree with Dean. In the meantime just waiting to see what happens. What ever happens I hope we end up on the right side of the upcoming decision.

Now for trading KC and our 17 pick for the 49ers #2 pick is a pure speculation as with all the other stories occurring with KC. However here's is a thought. What about trading that #2 pick (49ers) to trade down and pick up a #1 and some extra picks.

The 49ers could wait until next yr and pursue KC. Meanwhile another team could surprise all of us and make a trade for KC this yr.

There are alot of possibilities here. We just have to sit back an wait.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

It appears that some folks are maintaining that Cousins either extends in the next week or so or he is gone either this season or next. Completely disagree.

I am not maintaining that it is a given that he signs an extension, but it was established quite a while ago that Cousins would likely sign the tag & then use the next few months to negotiate a long term deal. Signing ASAP makes no sense for either Cousins or the Redskins. That would mean that either Cousins signs for a very low amt or the Skins go crazy with the contract amt.

In the meantime all that we hear are countless rumors almost none of which come from anyone with inside knowledge to either the Redskins or Cousins. This could still go either way, but I think a lot of folks here are being very premature with their takes.