Did you guys hear this?

[Breed]

1. Find me a sure fire better QB and IM all for it. Until then, we are back to butts ifs and maybes.

Find me a surefire top 10 defense this offseason.

2. Simple as this, had the defense held up in the Lions game, we make the playoffs.

Just as simple as if Kirk hadn't so badly misfired on not 1, not 2, but 3 passes. All of which should've been TD plays in the 1st Dallas game. We make the playoffs. See how easy that was to switch out better QB for better defense and it works just the same.

The defense cost us as many losses as Kirk Did.

Wow. An actual acknowledgement that the sun doesn't rise and set on Kirk's ass. I'm impressed. I didn't think you had it in you.

But I think we have a lot better shot at improving the defense than we do at QB right now.

I'd say that's a reasonable viewpoint. Might not end up a correct one, but on the other hand. It certainly might.

[/QUOTE=]And the bonus is, we have to improve the defense no matter what. The only reason we need a new QB is if some one decides Kirk isnt worth the money.[/QUOTE]

You don't think Kirk has to improve any aspect(s) of his game? He's perfect as is right now?

Depends on what type of money we're talking about. I'm certainly not part of the "pay Kirk whatever he wants or whatever it takes to keep him." crew. Nor do I believe that just because Houston made a truly stupid move far as what they did with Osweiller. That every other team in the NFL should have to pay for it as well when it comes to deals they engage in with their QBs.

 

[Sharkinva]

You don't think Kirk has to improve any aspect(s) of his game? He's perfect as is right now?

Depends on what type of money we're talking about. I'm certainly not part of the "pay Kirk whatever he wants or whatever it takes to keep him." crew. Nor do I believe that just because Houston made a truly stupid move far as what they did with Osweiller. That every other team in the NFL should have to pay for it as well when it comes to deals they engage in with their QBs.

When have I ever said or implied that Kirk does not have to in fact need to improve?? I have many times stated that he is not elite. And to me the only players that dont need to improve are in fact already elite.

You pay him what it takes to keep him because simply put he is our best option and likely WILL continue to improve. You bitch and moan about whats its going to cost to keep him only if you infact dont want to keep him.

We get you sir, you dont want to keep him thats cool. But keeping him gives us better odds to improve in the short and the long run. Or a lot better odds than chasing elite has gotten us so far.

But you know, part of me hopes guys like you and Sty and Dean get your wish. But Im with Socal... if we deal him and the team shits the bed on getting a better QB... you guys have no leg to stand on when it comes to bitching about the next guy. Deal?

 

[Stymietee]

When have I ever said or implied that Kirk does not have to in fact need to improve?? I have many times stated that he is not elite. And to me the only players that dont need to improve are in fact already elite.

You pay him what it takes to keep him because simply put he is our best option and likely WILL continue to improve. You bitch and moan about whats its going to cost to keep him only if you infact dont want to keep him.

We get you sir, you dont want to keep him thats cool. But keeping him gives us better odds to improve in the short and the long run. Or a lot better odds than chasing elite has gotten us so far.

But you know, part of me hopes guys like you and Sty and Dean get your wish. But Im with Socal... if we deal him and the team shits the bed on getting a better QB... you guys have no leg to stand on when it comes to bitching about the next guy. Deal?

You keep insisting that I don't want Kirk to stay, I don't know where you get that from other than in some made up fantasy reasoning about me personally. ( I do have an idea what it's based on though). You or no one here can point to where I said that I don't want Kirk to stay. Upgrading DOES NOT mean that he goes. So let's play it your way.

Deal!! If things go the way that I want them to go IF and that's a big IF Kirk is not retained. McCarron is already where Kirk needs to grow into and he's 26. Sure he'll make mistakes too, but as everyone knows, they all do! On the other hand, you have to give props if McCarron comes in and does what I know he can do.

 

[Sharkinva]

You keep insisting that I don't want Kirk to stay, I don't know where you get that from other than in some made up fantasy reasoning about me personally. ( I do have an idea what it's based on though). You or no one here can point to where I said that I don't want Kirk to stay. Upgrading DOES NOT mean that he goes. So let's play it your way.

Deal!! If things go the way that I want them to go IF and that's a big IF Kirk is not retained. McCarron is already where Kirk needs to grow into and he's 26. Sure he'll make mistakes too, but as everyone knows, they all do! On the other hand, you have to give props if McCarron comes in and does what I know he can do.

Sty... you are the master of working both sides of the fence. For this I give you props sir. But seriously... comments like "Well yes i want Kirk to stay, but McCarron is already a better QB that we should go get".

This kind of reeks of, well I would rather have this guy. Generally you arent throwing out names of players you think we should acquire if you feel we should hang onto the guy we currently have. And we both know that you dont bring in another QB unless you are planning to move on from the guy you have. Bottom line is, you dont have to say explicitly you want a player gone when every other post about that player implies that you think he is average at best and we would be better off going in another direction.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty... you are the master of working both sides of the fence. For this I give you props sir. But seriously... comments like "Well yes i want Kirk to stay, but McCarron is already a better QB that we should go get".

This kind of reeks of, well I would rather have this guy. Generally you arent throwing out names of players you think we should acquire if you feel we should hang onto the guy we currently have. And we both know that you dont bring in another QB unless you are planning to move on from the guy you have. Bottom line is, you dont have to say explicitly you want a player gone when every other post about that player implies that you think he is average at best and we would be better off going in another direction.

That's a poor reading and you know it!! I've never said that directly nor through implication. Unless there was a negative agenda attached to or garnered from what I'm posting and that's on the reader not me. I believe in competition, said so a thousand times here. Kirk currently has ZERO, ZIP, NO, competition here. Other teams get guys that can come in start and there not be a drastic drop off like we have here. I illustrated that with my Cincinnati and N.E. comments in this thread. Maybe you think that bringing in one guy means that we're moving the other one to be factual, but I assure you that I absolutely don't hold that POV. I'm perfectly fine with having one or the other winning out in competition and the other becoming our backup. This move is what will get Kirk to step-up not a new contract.

I've said many times that Kirk is a pretty good QB, if that translates into average, then that's what he is. So, let me ask you this question.....If you knew for a fact that acquiring another player gives you an upgrade over the player that you currently have starting, would you do it? (obvious answer here)

 

[Stymietee]

Sty... you are the master of working both sides of the fence. For this I give you props sir. But seriously... comments like "Well yes i want Kirk to stay, but McCarron is already a better QB that we should go get".

This kind of reeks of, well I would rather have this guy. Generally you arent throwing out names of players you think we should acquire if you feel we should hang onto the guy we currently have. And we both know that you dont bring in another QB unless you are planning to move on from the guy you have. Bottom line is, you dont have to say explicitly you want a player gone when every other post about that player implies that you think he is average at best and we would be better off going in another direction.

BTW: In response to working both sides of the fence, I often engage others where they are most comfortable, it doesn't mean that I always agree with them or don't have my own opinions/ perspective. I'm open to new ideas and when they are presented in a way that makes sense, I'll make the change. When I don't I'll present my own. You know the other side of the fence.

 

[Sharkinva]

That's a poor reading and you know it!! I've never said that directly nor through implication. Unless there was a negative agenda attached to or garnered from what I'm posting and that's on the reader not me. I believe in competition, said so a thousand times here. Kirk currently has ZERO, ZIP, NO, competition here. Other teams get guys that can come in start and there not be a drastic drop off like we have here. I illustrated that with my Cincinnati and N.E. comments in this thread. Maybe you think that bringing in one guy means that we're moving the other one to be factual, but I assure you that I absolutely don't hold that POV. I'm perfectly fine with having one or the other winning out in competition and the other becoming our backup. This move is what will get Kirk to step-up not a new contract.

I've said many times that Kirk is a pretty good QB, if that translates into average, then that's what he is. So, let me ask you this question.....If you knew for a fact that acquiring another player gives you an upgrade over the player that you currently have starting, would you do it? (obvious answer here)

To answer your question, sure if I knew with 100% or hell even 80% surety that the guy we were bringing in was an upgrade, thats a no brainer. BUt if the best Im going to get is a 50/50, I think I will stick with whats been working and concentrate on improving the real weak spots on the team.

As for your competition at every position... thats great for a 5-11 team. But for a team that made the playoffs in 2015, and barely missed it in 2016... its unrealistic and you know it. Most of your teams that have an open competition at QB are coming off of 3-13 or worse records. We aint that bro.

 

[Stymietee]

To answer your question, sure if I knew with 100% or hell even 80% surety that the guy we were bringing in was an upgrade, thats a no brainer. BUt if the best Im going to get is a 50/50, I think I will stick with whats been working and concentrate on improving the real weak spots on the team.

As for your competition at every position... thats great for a 5-11 team. But for a team that made the playoffs in 2015, and barely missed it in 2016... its unrealistic and you know it. Most of your teams that have an open competition at QB are coming off of 3-13 or worse records. We aint that bro.

I'm beginning to believe that you really believe this! Sure you're not going to have competition at every position every year, that's an absolutist view of what I wrote. In professional we do get competition at every position as is allowed by the Draft and free agency. Why have them otherwise, if you're not bringing in new blood and better talents? We may not be 3-13 or 5-11, but our current QB needs that competition or he's just a pretty good/average QB that's getting paid. For the record, I don't give a shit if DS gave him half ownership. G.R.E.A.T. teams don't have Colt McCoy as a backup period. Great teams have guys like Cousins, Garrapolo and to a lesser extent McCarron as their backups. We may not be either one of the above , but we certainly aren't great either. The record says that we're average over the last two years, with a pretty good/ average QB. I do understand how you or anyone else here would not want to improve upon any of that, and still declare that you/they want what's best for this team. #BEINGCOMFORTABLEWITHMEDIOCRE.

 

[Stymietee]

Correction last line should read: I do not get how it is that you or anyone else here would not want to improve upon any of that, and still declare that you/they want what's best for this team. However, I do understand it! It's based on being impressed with something that we've not seen in a long time here. Like #BEINGCOMFORTABLEWITHMEDIOCRE.

 

[Breed]

Skins Stats: Ten Reasons Kirk Cousins Is Worth the Money

funny luck isnt even on some of these

Why is it funny?

This is what his Head coach and parenthetically the players think about McCarron.........

"We feel really good about AJ," Lewis said at the NFL's annual meeting for 2016. "We drafted him for a purpose. Everybody saw that last year, unfortunately. When Andy Dalton got hurt is why we feel so good about AJ going in and being fortunate enough to pick him in the draft and being able to coach him to get him to where he is. He's everything we want as a quarterback. If he has to lead our football team, our guys are confident they can go in and play with AJ and win games."


His 2014 combine:

View attachment 155475Click to view on NFL.com

1:03
2014 Combine workout: AJ McCarron
NFL.com

......and a scouting report:

View attachment 155474Click to view on NFL.com

3:14HD
AJ McCarron scouting report
NFL.com


.........And a few highlights (take note of his poise, the throws in tight windows and how he extends the pocket)

View attachment 155473Click to view

3:10HD
AJ McCarron 2015 highlights


For those who've asked for better than Kirk in our system right now, I've done the homework for you!

OK. I checked out the links. First I wanna say this. Like you, I've never advocated that the Skins part ways with Cuz just cuz. The Skins retaining him/signing him long term imo would be both a smart and safe route to take. I can't blame any Skins fan who feels similiar. I'm just not on-board with going above and beyond to retain him. But if the Skins end up not retaining him. I don't think it will be as one-sided as I'm sure many will make it out to be. That said..................

I liked what I saw/heard in the links and I'd opine that others check them out as well. Nice call on AJ, Sty and just as nice a call on showing your work.

 

[Breed]

I believe that if we act quickly, he can be had for a conditional early 3rd and if necessary one of our 4th....the later one.

The more telling thing about the way that Cincy and N.E. thus far that we know about, they want guys in the #2 QB spot who could start for them. There's a near consensus here that C. McCoy is a mere stopgap at best. This is what I mean when I talk about upgrading everywhere.

Yeah, I like Colt, but from a physical tools aspect he is a little too limited imo;. He's also injury prone. Far as AJ. I wonder if he's on the Skins radar. While I have to admit I've been A conditional 3rd and a low 4th for AJ doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Hopefully it won't to the Cincy brass either if that's the route the Skins are hopeful to go.

 

[Breed]

Skins Stats: Ten Reasons Kirk Cousins Is Worth the Money

funny luck isnt even on some of these

Why is it funny?

 

[Breed]

@Sharkinva , for you, homey. Though I'm sure you've seen it before.


POLL
Should the Redskins make Kirk Cousins the highest paid player in the NFL?

• 54%
  Yes
  (450 votes)
  
  
• 37%
  No
  (311 votes)
  
  
• 9%
  Franchise him again and decide next year
  (75 votes)

836 votes total

Poll from HogsHaven.com

 

[Stymietee]

Why is it funny?


OK. I checked out the links. First I wanna say this. Like you, I've never advocated that the Skins part ways with Cuz just cuz. The Skins retaining him/signing him long term imo would be both a smart and safe route to take. I can't blame any Skins fan who feels similiar. I'm just not on-board with going above and beyond to retain him. But if the Skins end up not retaining him. I don't think it will be as one-sided as I'm sure many will make it out to be. That said..................

I liked what I saw/heard in the links and I'd opine that others check them out as well. Nice call on AJ, Sty and just as nice a call on showing your work.

Thanks, and thanks for taking the time to consider it. I don't expect many to agree with me, in fact last year, when I first offered him as a possible replacement, many here were dismissive of the name that they asked for without checking it out for themselves. They either cite "well he can't start where he is" as some sort of justification that explains not envisioning him here in this offense or attack the messenger. It's all good though, I guess that's what happens when someone at least, has a plan that doesn't start and end with staying with the status quo. If we can get Kirk back long term...good. If not, and thus far it's not looking good, we move on and get better without him.

To me, this organization has to become something that has eluded it for far too long and that's being a great organization. To me great organizations begat great teams and great teams are born from having great or near great players deep into their rosters. Their focus annually is a SB berth, not squeaking into the one and done playoff stakes.

Here's the thing about moving on if it comes to that, and I'm going to say it, It will be a step back....IF.....we are not prepared to move ahead without him. I agree that it won't be as one sided either, because (using the naysayers reasoning) If the defense improves and we get a top shelf running game in place, whoever is QBing will be asked to do less because of the dependence on said running game. Maybe it's not sexy enough to have a feared running game.

 

[Stymietee]

Yeah, I like Colt, but from a physical tools aspect he is a little too limited imo;. He's also injury prone. Far as AJ. I wonder if he's on the Skins radar. While I have to admit I've been A conditional 3rd and a low 4th for AJ doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Hopefully it won't to the Cincy brass either if that's the route the Skins are hopeful to go.

If not, maybe they will "Trump" us and be readers of this site. However, instead of writing a response as he does, do as you and I have done.....consider it!

 

[Breed]

@Stymietee

I can't front. When I first read your post giving props to AJ as a possible replacement with an equal or perhaps even greater skill-set than Cuz and capability to run Gruden's offense. I was, shall I say, less than impressed. I won't say I'm completely sold, but I am impressed now.

 

[Stymietee]

@Stymietee

I can't front. When I first read your post giving props to AJ as a possible replacement with an equal or perhaps even greater skill-set than Cuz and capability to run Gruden's offense. I was, shall I say, less than impressed. I won't say I'm completely sold, but I am impressed.

You know what, in all honesty, last year when the whole Kirk thing started, I suspected that we would end up here again. The question came up concerning who would be an equal or better option. So, during my time away from this site I researched QB's on every team, doubting but searching for that exact answer. Made a game of it in fact where after eliminating all but 15 guys (non starters), I used that elimination process to compare and contrast one vs. the other. A.J McCarron could come here and fall completely flat. I'm prepared to face the backlash from that as well, that's what happens when you take the lead. That said, getting fired from a social sports media site might force me to continue doing what I've always done (queue scary music)......talk face to face with others, Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

 

[Sportster 72]

Good sales job Sty.

 

[Sharkinva]

What is the holdup with Cousins, Redskins? - ESPN Video

Somethings not right

Antonio Pierce says perhaps Redskins owner Dan Snyder doesn't find Kirk Cousins to be enough of a "big name guy" to justify offering him a long-term contract.

 

[skinsdad62]

What is the holdup with Cousins, Redskins? - ESPN Video

Somethings not right

Antonio Pierce says perhaps Redskins owner Dan Snyder doesn't find Kirk Cousins to be enough of a "big name guy" to justify offering him a long-term contract.

so should we call dean , dean snyder ?