Dez

[Eiknarflin]

My point of view with Dez is that we are seeing the same thing over and over for going on a quarter of a century. Jerry and Co. are always thinking that we are just on the verge of being SB contenders and all we need to do is add a player here or there and we have it. The truth is that we have only been mediocre most seasons and only every three years or so competitive.

Part of the reason for this is that we tend to over value certain players until it's too late to do anything with them. Dez's greatest value to the Cowboys was about four or five years ago when he could have been traded for a 1st and maybe a 2nd/3rd. Sadly, that window has passed us by and now all we can do is either cut him or keep paying him.

I like his passion for the game, and there is no doubt that he has made some big plays for our team. He's a Cowboy so I cheer for him, but sadly, he never was truly a first WR type of player, in my estimation.

The Patriots do it right: no player, other than their star QB (probably the greatest to ever play the game), is more important than the team. If trading a guy when he is in his prime gives us the ability to bring in more young talent, that's what should be done, especially in this age of salary cap. We are overpaying to hold on to guys well past their prime, all the while hoping that we can add a few guys to finally win the SB.

I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[Manster7588]

My point of view with Dez is that we are seeing the same thing over and over for going on a quarter of a century. Jerry and Co. are always thinking that we are just on the verge of being SB contenders and all we need to do is add a player here or there and we have it. The truth is that we have only been mediocre most seasons and only every three years or so competitive.

Part of the reason for this is that we tend to over value certain players until it's too late to do anything with them. Dez's greatest value to the Cowboys was about four or five years ago when he could have been traded for a 1st and maybe a 2nd/3rd. Sadly, that window has passed us by and now all we can do is either cut him or keep paying him.

I like his passion for the game, and there is no doubt that he has made some big plays for our team. He's a Cowboy so I cheer for him, but sadly, he never was truly a first WR type of player, in my estimation.

The Patriots do it right: no player, other than their star QB (probably the greatest to ever play the game), is more important than the team. If trading a guy when he is in his prime gives us the ability to bring in more young talent, that's what should be done, especially in this age of salary cap. We are overpaying to hold on to guys well past their prime, all the while hoping that we can add a few guys to finally win the SB.

I don't see it happening any time soon.

I 100% agree. Its one thing for us fans to overvalue, but the team management needs to remove emotion from the team building process.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

2012-2014- he was top 1-5 in the league IMO. The term Romo friendly/ Dak friendly offense gets thrown around a lot. We are definitely not in a Dez friendly offense anymore. We are built to Run the football 30 times a game. If we do that, we wind up in a lot of 3rd and 3s. Beasley, Wit, Zeke are usually the first options there

 

[Schmoopy1000]

2012-2014- he was top 1-5 in the league IMO. The term Romo friendly/ Dak friendly offense gets thrown around a lot. We are definitely not in a Dez friendly offense anymore. We are built to Run the football 30 times a game. If we do that, we wind up in a lot of 3rd and 3s. Beasley, Wit, Zeke are usually the first options there

We run the ball get them to put 8 in the box & go deep to whoever our new shiney speedster is!
If Dez is on the team so be it, but he shouldnt have to be the focal point of our passing game.

 

[PDay8810]

We run the ball get them to put 8 in the box & go deep to whoever our new shiney speedster is!
If Dez is on the team so be it, but he shouldnt have to be the focal point of our passing game.

That's the rub for me.
Will Dez except a lesser role in the pass game?

AND you are correct....we most defiantly are (and rightfully so) a run team first. The investment in the oline and Elliott says as much. The oline still may be considered the best run blocking team in football....imagine how good we could be if we expanded the run game to more than just 8 running plays. Which brings me to my biggest bitch about the cowboy coaching staff....they still don't scout themselves and their tendencies. PERHAPS the biggest mistake they make and certainly arrogant has hell. These guys need to learn there are professionals on the other sideline and their getting their ass kicked when things don't go as planned

 

[Eiknarflin]

2012-2014- he was top 1-5 in the league IMO. The term Romo friendly/ Dak friendly offense gets thrown around a lot. We are definitely not in a Dez friendly offense anymore. We are built to Run the football 30 times a game. If we do that, we wind up in a lot of 3rd and 3s. Beasley, Wit, Zeke are usually the first options there

As I said, his greatest value to us what 4-5 years ago when he could have been traded for a 1st and possibly 2nd/3rd.

Dez has never been a possession receiver or a reliable stretch the field kind of receiver. He had two routes that were somewhat consistently good for us - the back shoulder 20 yards down the sideline and the end zone slant. Apart from that, he hasn't accomplished much for us. In the past four years he is always in the running for the most dropped passes and the most fumbles by a WR.

As I also said, previously, I like the guy's passion. It's just too bad that his mouth and antics tend to write checks that neither his hands nor his route running can cover.

But, here we are now with an over-paid WR once again, with no one opposite him that can possibly take over the position of being a #1 receiver. I've seen this movie too many times in the last 25 years.

 

[Eiknarflin]

Here's what scares me even more, by the time Jerry and Co. figure out that it's time to cut bait, our O-Line will be on the brink of past its prime to dominate. About that time, we will draft a young WR to be our next #1, and the saga will continue.

Alas, I will remain a fan of the Star and will continue to tune in to every game and attend as many as I can afford. AS PDay often says, "Till death do us part."

 

[tomodach10]

As I said, his greatest value to us what 4-5 years ago when he could have been traded for a 1st and possibly 2nd/3rd.

Dez has never been a possession receiver or a reliable stretch the field kind of receiver. He had two routes that were somewhat consistently good for us - the back shoulder 20 yards down the sideline and the end zone slant. Apart from that, he hasn't accomplished much for us. In the past four years he is always in the running for the most dropped passes and the most fumbles by a WR.

As I also said, previously, I like the guy's passion. It's just too bad that his mouth and antics tend to write checks that neither his hands nor his route running can cover.

But, here we are now with an over-paid WR once again, with no one opposite him that can possibly take over the position of being a #1 receiver. I've seen this movie too many times in the last 25 years.

Dez is only 29 years-old, he has not played well, but i believe in the right system, he will thrive. I think Lenihan is a big part of the problem with this offense as a whole. Why are all the numbers down for all recievers? Dak is also part of the problem. He holds the ball too long and is not accurate. There are are many problems with this team. Lenihan is not creative. Teams have figured Dallas out, make Dak pass to beat you. Until Lenihan learns how to make adjustments to what other defenses are doing, we will see more of the same next year IMO. Of course, i hope i am wrong.

 

[jarntt]

My point of view with Dez is that we are seeing the same thing over and over for going on a quarter of a century. Jerry and Co. are always thinking that we are just on the verge of being SB contenders and all we need to do is add a player here or there and we have it. The truth is that we have only been mediocre most seasons and only every three years or so competitive.

Part of the reason for this is that we tend to over value certain players until it's too late to do anything with them. Dez's greatest value to the Cowboys was about four or five years ago when he could have been traded for a 1st and maybe a 2nd/3rd. Sadly, that window has passed us by and now all we can do is either cut him or keep paying him.

I like his passion for the game, and there is no doubt that he has made some big plays for our team. He's a Cowboy so I cheer for him, but sadly, he never was truly a first WR type of player, in my estimation.

The Patriots do it right: no player, other than their star QB (probably the greatest to ever play the game), is more important than the team. If trading a guy when he is in his prime gives us the ability to bring in more young talent, that's what should be done, especially in this age of salary cap. We are overpaying to hold on to guys well past their prime, all the while hoping that we can add a few guys to finally win the SB.

I don't see it happening any time soon.

The only thing I am going to disagree with is the idea that Dez was never a #1 WR. His has not been for a few years now obviously, but there was a time when he definitely was was IMO. He always had flaws but he was able to do enough to overcome them and excel. Now he still has those flaws, but just doesn't do enough to make up for them.

 

[jarntt]

I think this team will attempt to fix the WR position the way they did the OL and CB spots and I think the scouts can likely get it done. The problem is that they let these positions get to the point where a complete overhaul is needed in the first place. So while I give them credit for fixing the glaring errors, I also blame them for letting the positions go to shit in the first place. There are many needs other than WR on this team. So if they force all of their picks or FA $'s on WR it just makes those other needs a little bit bigger each year. I guess that is to some degree how it works with limited draft picks and FA $'s. But as long as we have cap issues we will need to bandaid certain spots. But I'd rather have D Law and Martin and a bandaid guy than let one of them go and sign a couple of other FA's. So it's just a matter of deciding how to spend your resources.

With a healthy OL and Zeke playing 16 games and our young DBs a year more experienced I think this team is a lot closer than many are thinking right now. We were 9-7 and playing pretty well at the end of the year. Many teams can play this game, but we were an Atl win away from the playoffs and in that game we had no Lee for most, no Elliott and no T Smith in what was the worst performance this season by any NFL player by his replacement. Disappointing year, but the arrow is still pointing up

 

[Eiknarflin]

Yeah, jarntt, I know that's a debatable point, which is why I said, "in my estimation."

To me, he was a great TD machine, but I can't think of any point since he came here that he was the kind of guy that defenses always game planned for. He got a lot of attention early on, but only when we didn't have a great ground game.

As I said, I know it's a debatable point.

 

[Eiknarflin]

Dez is only 29 years-old, he has not played well, but i believe in the right system, he will thrive. I think Lenihan is a big part of the problem with this offense as a whole. Why are all the numbers down for all recievers? Dak is also part of the problem. He holds the ball too long and is not accurate. There are are many problems with this team. Lenihan is not creative. Teams have figured Dallas out, make Dak pass to beat you. Until Lenihan learns how to make adjustments to what other defenses are doing, we will see more of the same next year IMO. Of course, i hope i am wrong.

You're right. Dez isn't the only problem, even with his own lack of production. But he is a big part of it. Dak struggled for sure this year, but Dez's sideline antics and his fumbles and dropped passes were also a big part of Dak's struggles this last year, too.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't see anyone on this team, right now, besides maybe Bailey and Lee, that I wouldn't consider trading if I thought it gives the team an advantage, and Lee is a maybe, for the right price.

That was my initial point, that the front office doesn't approach things from a "what is best for the team" mentality. I think they believe they do, and it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and call the shots, but how many times do we have to get stuck with an overpaid, under producing contract before we get things turned around? Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[PDay8810]

I think this team will attempt to fix the WR position the way they did the OL and CB spots and I think the scouts can likely get it done. The problem is that they let these positions get to the point where a complete overhaul is needed in the first place. So while I give them credit for fixing the glaring errors, I also blame them for letting the positions go to shit in the first place. There are many needs other than WR on this team. So if they force all of their picks or FA $'s on WR it just makes those other needs a little bit bigger each year. I guess that is to some degree how it works with limited draft picks and FA $'s. But as long as we have cap issues we will need to bandaid certain spots. But I'd rather have D Law and Martin and a bandaid guy than let one of them go and sign a couple of other FA's. So it's just a matter of deciding how to spend your resources.

With a healthy OL and Zeke playing 16 games and our young DBs a year more experienced I think this team is a lot closer than many are thinking right now. We were 9-7 and playing pretty well at the end of the year. Many teams can play this game, but we were an Atl win away from the playoffs and in that game we had no Lee for most, no Elliott and no T Smith in what was the worst performance this season by any NFL player by his replacement. Disappointing year, but the arrow is still pointing up

I agree. Dallas is another solid draft and better than average health away from being a strong playoff team. Still much to be optimistic about.

As I've said before, this team needs speed at wide receiver, and add a couple more defensive contributors from the draft. Lawrence & Hitchins are musts and if they want to test free agency, I'd sure put second round tenders, and maybe a 1st round tender on Lawrence. I think Martin gets done, and remain somewhat optimistic the Dez situation will work itself out. I also prey the head coach & coordinators except part of the blame and start scouting their own tendencies.

 

[tomodach10]

You're right. Dez isn't the only problem, even with his own lack of production. But he is a big part of it. Dak struggled for sure this year, but Dez's sideline antics and his fumbles and dropped passes were also a big part of Dak's struggles this last year, too.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't see anyone on this team, right now, besides maybe Bailey and Lee, that I wouldn't consider trading if I thought it gives the team an advantage, and Lee is a maybe, for the right price.

That was my initial point, that the front office doesn't approach things from a "what is best for the team" mentality. I think they believe they do, and it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and call the shots, but how many times do we have to get stuck with an overpaid, under producing contract before we get things turned around? Your guess is as good as mine.

I would not not consider Lee for a trades. When he is on the field he is great, but he is too injury prone for me. He is not untouchable.

 

[tomodach10]

Yeah, jarntt, I know that's a debatable point, which is why I said, "in my estimation."

To me, he was a great TD machine, but I can't think of any point since he came here that he was the kind of guy that defenses always game planned for. He got a lot of attention early on, but only when we didn't have a great ground game.

As I said, I know it's a debatable point.

Come on. You cant possibly say Dez was not a number 1# wide receiver prior to the past 2 years.

 

[Eiknarflin]

Come on. You cant possibly say Dez was not a number 1# wide receiver prior to the past 2 years.

Perhaps we have a different idea of what it means to be a #1 WR. It's more than having the most catches or the most TDs. To me, a #1 WR excels at more than one aspect of the position. Dez excels (or excelled) at being bigger and stronger than the DBs. What he has never possessed is great route running, speed, consistency, or football intelligence. I think a guy might lack one or two of those qualities, but he sure better have more than one.

I don't see it with Dez, and never have. What I have seen with him is an occasional "Wow" play, and a TD producing machine from the end zone. For that, he could be useful as a #2 just about anywhere in the NFL. I'd like to have him as a #2, but not at $12mill per year.

I knew I would be out of the mainstream opinion on this, but it has been my opinion for a long time. I was in agreement with Twist several years ago, and stated so here openly, that we should've traded Dez then when he had some value. I was criticized then, too, and that's OK. It's just my opinion.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Perhaps we have a different idea of what it means to be a #1 WR. It's more than having the most catches or the most TDs. To me, a #1 WR excels at more than one aspect of the position. Dez excels (or excelled) at being bigger and stronger than the DBs. What he has never possessed is great route running, speed, consistency, or football intelligence. I think a guy might lack one or two of those qualities, but he sure better have more than one.

I don't see it with Dez, and never have. What I have seen with him is an occasional "Wow" play, and a TD producing machine from the end zone. For that, he could be useful as a #2 just about anywhere in the NFL. I'd like to have him as a #2, but not at $12mill per year.

I knew I would be out of the mainstream opinion on this, but it has been my opinion for a long time. I was in agreement with Twist several years ago, and stated so here openly, that we should've traded Dez then when he had some value. I was criticized then, too, and that's OK. It's just my opinion.

your not alone on this thinking. I also wanted to trade Dez when he had a high trade value instead of paying him big. Everyone thought I was crazy as well.

 

[jarntt]

your not alone on this thinking. I also wanted to trade Dez when he had a high trade value instead of paying him big. Everyone thought I was crazy as well.

Let me dispel the rumors of everyone thinking you guys were crazy for some short sighted reason that I've now read about 10 times in the last month. I remember people on here (don't remember who) thinking we were going to get 2 first round picks from a team that still had to give Dez a huge contract (and it also would have left us with no receivers). All this coming on the heels of some bad off the field issues too (and a bad back?). So yeah, I thought that was a pipe dream and a bad idea then and today.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Let me dispel the rumors of everyone thinking you guys were crazy for some short sighted reason that I've now read about 10 times in the last month. I remember people on here (don't remember who) thinking we were going to get 2 first round picks from a team that still had to give Dez a huge contract (and it also would have left us with no receivers). All this coming on the heels of some bad off the field issues too (and a bad back?). So yeah, I thought that was a pipe dream and a bad idea then and today.

I never think anyone is worth two 1st rounds, because anyone that would be worth it wouldnt be on the trading block. I just wanted to move up in the 1st round.

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

Before Smith got hurt the OL still was not as good as 2016. Cooper simply is barEly average and we can't have him as our starter in 2018. I am thinking we consider trading down a little in the 1st if all the elite players are gone and take will hernandez from UTEP. I would trade 19 for Cleveland 2nd and 3rd.