Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2016 Thread

[Iffster]

Detroiters....I have a question. Having not lived in Detroit for some time, I am not up to date on the movers and shakers in the area. IF, after PizzaBoyII passes, is there other billionaires capable of buying the team if the Illitch family decides to spend its time and money elsewhere. Not saying they will sell, but I see lean times ahead for the club after the old man isn't there. Just wondering if there are people(s) with the cash to keep the team in Detroit. (I have my doubts that the Black community would jump to the support of the Tigers - traditions linger)

 

[broncosmitty]

Not offering arb makes them a free agent early. Qualifying offers are for players past arb. If you don't offer arb you lose them for nothing. Tigers didn't offer arb to Feliz this year so they lost him for nothing... But he would have gotten more in the arb process than his worth hence not offering it. Players can't decline arb... They have to participate in the arb process if they are still under their arbitration years.

I don't think you understood what I was asking. Cuz players most definitely can and have refused/declined arbitration. (Which is why I gave examples.) Every TypeA FA that signed with a new club had to decline arbitration prior to leaving.

 

[Iffster]

I don't think you understood what I was asking. Cuz players most definitely can and have refused/declined arbitration. (Which is why I gave examples.) Every TypeA FA that signed with a new club had to decline arbitration prior to leaving.

No....they declined the QUALIFYING OFFER....which was $13.3 million. Arbitration is not for free agents but for those players prior to free agency like J.D. Martinez. Free agents no longer "arbitrate".

Once the player declines the qualifying offer, he can sign with any team...but it will cost that team some sort of draft pick. If the team does NOT make the qualifying offer....any team can sign him and no draft pick is involved in his signing with another team.

 

[Howie115]

Detroiters....I have a question. Having not lived in Detroit for some time, I am not up to date on the movers and shakers in the area. IF, after PizzaBoyII passes, is there other billionaires capable of buying the team if the Illitch family decides to spend its time and money elsewhere. Not saying they will sell, but I see lean times ahead for the club after the old man isn't there. Just wondering if there are people(s) with the cash to keep the team in Detroit. (I have my doubts that the Black community would jump to the support of the Tigers - traditions linger)

The richest people in Michigan are actually the Meijer brothers. Don't know if they are interested in sports team ownership at all.

 

[Iffster]

I noticed that CBS -Sports came out with their first Power Rankings today. They have the Royals at #2 (behind the Cubs). Detroit is #15, one spot behind the Indians and two spots ahead of the Twins. I think the White Sox are just behind the Twins. The guy that wrote the article was giving shit to the Royals fans for suggesting that their team HAD to be #1, not just because of last season....but because their players are the best at every position on the diamond. (S. Perez over B. Posey. Hosmer over Goldschmidt, etc, etc)

Personally....thought the Royals were too high at #2 and the Tigers a little low at #15. They had St.L at #8. I see an off year for Cards this season. Tigers were 8th in the AL....I'd push them above the Rangers, at least.

 

[MiamiVice]

Detroiters....I have a question. Having not lived in Detroit for some time, I am not up to date on the movers and shakers in the area. IF, after PizzaBoyII passes, is there other billionaires capable of buying the team if the Illitch family decides to spend its time and money elsewhere. Not saying they will sell, but I see lean times ahead for the club after the old man isn't there. Just wondering if there are people(s) with the cash to keep the team in Detroit. (I have my doubts that the Black community would jump to the support of the Tigers - traditions linger)

The owner of the Cavs is from Detroit... and he is worth about 5 billion... The owner of the Pistons is from Michigan and is worth 3 billion... The owners of Meijers are from Michigan and worth about 10 billion... Ronda Stryker is worth about 4 billion... The De Vos family owns the Orlando Magic and are out of Grand Rapids... they are worth about 5 billion.. but its pointless... Ilitch's son and daughters are all high up in the company and will take over. Its not leaving the family.

 

[MiamiVice]

I don't think you understood what I was asking. Cuz players most definitely can and have refused/declined arbitration. (Which is why I gave examples.) Every TypeA FA that signed with a new club had to decline arbitration prior to leaving.

No... you are incorrect. A player is 100% controllable by the team through their arbitration years. They can not decline arbitration. There is no type a fa anymore.

The only time a qualifying offer can be used is when a player is past their arbitration years. If they are arbitration eligible and the team makes them an offer, the player either excepts that offer or they go to an arbitrator. A player can not opt out of arbitration. A team can opt not to make them an offer.. then any team can sign them for what ever they want... but if they still have arbitration years left.. the next year the new team will have the option of offering them arbitration again. Every player has a certain amount of arbitration eligible time based on service time and when they were called up. Once they go through the 3 or 4 years of arbitration then they can be given qualifying offers.. which have nothing to do with arbitration... qualfying offers now have no type a or type b... they just are qualifying offers that have a salary based on the average of the top 125 contracts from the year before. If offered a qualifying offer, the player can either take the salary.. which was around 15 mil this year... or try their hand at the free agent market where a team has to give up their highest draft pick unless it is top 10 protected.

I don't think you undertand the way arbitration and qualifying offers work smitty...

 

[MiamiVice]

I noticed that CBS -Sports came out with their first Power Rankings today. They have the Royals at #2 (behind the Cubs). Detroit is #15, one spot behind the Indians and two spots ahead of the Twins. I think the White Sox are just behind the Twins. The guy that wrote the article was giving shit to the Royals fans for suggesting that their team HAD to be #1, not just because of last season....but because their players are the best at every position on the diamond. (S. Perez over B. Posey. Hosmer over Goldschmidt, etc, etc)

Personally....thought the Royals were too high at #2 and the Tigers a little low at #15. They had St.L at #8. I see an off year for Cards this season. Tigers were 8th in the AL....I'd push them above the Rangers, at least.

I don't see any way the Cards are good this year... they did little to nothing and lost a ton of talent.. and along with age.. not a good recipe. Been fooled before with the Cards though.

 

[broncosmitty]

No... you are incorrect. A player is 100% controllable by the team through their arbitration years. They can not decline arbitration. There is no type a fa anymore.

The only time a qualifying offer can be used is when a player is past their arbitration years. If they are arbitration eligible and the team makes them an offer, the player either excepts that offer or they go to an arbitrator. A player can not opt out of arbitration. A team can opt not to make them an offer.. then any team can sign them for what ever they want... but if they still have arbitration years left.. the next year the new team will have the option of offering them arbitration again. Every player has a certain amount of arbitration eligible time based on service time and when they were called up. Once they go through the 3 or 4 years of arbitration then they can be given qualifying offers.. which have nothing to do with arbitration... qualfying offers now have no type a or type b... they just are qualifying offers that have a salary based on the average of the top 125 contracts from the year before. If offered a qualifying offer, the player can either take the salary.. which was around 15 mil this year... or try their hand at the free agent market where a team has to give up their highest draft pick unless it is top 10 protected.

I don't think you undertand the way arbitration and qualifying offers work smitty...

You aren't following what I was asking.

I was referencing a player declining arbitration (fA eligible players, not arbitration eligible.)in comparison to declining a qualifying offer. (Old CBA to new CBA.). Or a player not being offered Arb compared to not being offered a qualifier.

 

[broncosmitty]

But I don't know jacksquat in general when it comes to the money side of any sport. No sense in denying it. Not my thing in the slightest.

 

[MiamiVice]

You aren't following what I was asking.

I was referencing a player declining arbitration (fA eligible players, not arbitration eligible.)in comparison to declining a qualifying offer. (Old CBA to new CBA.). Or a player not being offered Arb compared to not being offered a qualifier.

There is no arbitration for FA eligible players... There are arbitration years... which a player can not decline.. and then FA years. I have no idea what the hell you are even talking about.

Players with less than 3 years of service are pre arbitration - (norris, rondon, verhagen, ect)
Players with 3+ years of service are arbitration eligible for a min of 3 years but most for 4 years
After Arbitration are FA years. Teams can offer qualifying offers to these players and if a player declines them they are given a comp pick if another team choses to sign them.


That is it. Once you have completed your arbitration eligible years you can't be offered it.

 

[broncosmitty]

Dude.... Victor turned down Arb with the BoSox, then signed with us. (He'd already played nine years. )Pudge wasn't offered arb by the Marlins before he came to Detroit, because he had it put in his contract that they couldn't. Maggs wasn't offered it by Chicago before he came here. Papa Grande denied arbitration before he came here. (He'd already played 8 years.)All of them were past their arbitration years and had their contracts expire.

This was how TypeA players cost or didn't cost a pick. Being offered, then turning down arbitration was pivotal.

Being offered a qualifier is pivotal now.

I figured the comparison out on my own.

 

[Howie115]

Personally....thought the Royals were too high at #2 and the Tigers a little low at #15. They had St.L at #8. I see an off year for Cards this season. Tigers were 8th in the AL....I'd push them above the Rangers, at least.

Understandable pessimism for the Tigers, I'm sure, given all their injuries last season and the uncertainty of key players bouncing back to good health.

 

[MiamiVice]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2016/02/09/detroit-tigers-mike-ilitch/80076182/

I know iffy won't actually respond to this because he was just blowing his hole with the original post on this matter... but if the ilitch family is going to sell the Tigers when old man pizza dies... why is his son the president of the team now? Just for shits and giggles?

 

[MiamiVice]

Dude.... Victor turned down Arb with the BoSox, then signed with us. (He'd already played nine years. )Pudge wasn't offered arb by the Marlins before he came to Detroit, because he had it put in his contract that they couldn't. Maggs wasn't offered it by Chicago before he came here. Papa Grande denied arbitration before he came here. (He'd already played 8 years.)All of them were past their arbitration years and had their contracts expire.

This was how TypeA players cost or didn't cost a pick. Being offered, then turning down arbitration was pivotal.

Being offered a qualifier is pivotal now.

I figured the comparison out on my own.

That was the old CBA smitty... what part of the fact there are no more type a or type b free agents and no arbitration past arb years anymore are you not getting? It has been 4 years now since the new system came into play.

 

[MiamiVice]

Understandable pessimism for the Tigers, I'm sure, given all their injuries last season and the uncertainty of key players bouncing back to good health.

I honestly don't care about preseason rankings and predictions. They are pointless. Teams like the Tigers are naturally not going to be ranked low because they had a shit year last year. Teams like the Royals are going to be ranked high because they won the WS. It really isn't going to take a lot for roles to flip for both teams. The Royals are going to be dealing with depth issues, fatigue from their 2 long playoff runs, and their loss of talent in the bullpen and other areas. The Tigers are either going to be healthy and a monster or not healthy and an expensive middle of the road team.

I will say this though... If the Tigers are healthy I don't see any way the Royals or any team in the Central is going to win more games than they do. A healthy Tigers team has by far the least amount of holes. The Indians and Royals have major issues and the White Sox are a huge question mark... however the White Sox signing Latos is going to end up being a huge addition IMO.

 

[MiamiVice]

Its funny how so many people were talking about the hole the Tigers had in their lineup before they signed Upton... but nobody is talking about the fact the Royals are going to have a bigger piece of trash in RF to start the season than Tyler Collins would have been for the Tigers. People are making a bigger deal about Avisail Garcia in Chi than this. Its funny, because Garcia is 20x better than what the Royals are going to trot out in RF this year.

 

[MiamiVice]

So far as rosters currently stand I am predicting the AL central like this... pointless.. but this is what I am predicting:

Tigers 88-74
White Sox 85 - 77
Indians 81-81
Royals 77-85
Twins 72-90

 

[Iffster]

Christopher Ilitch: Tigers ‘seem highly motivated’

I know iffy won't actually respond to this because he was just blowing his hole with the original post on this matter... but if the ilitch family is going to sell the Tigers when old man pizza dies... why is his son the president of the team now? Just for shits and giggles?

A silly rejoinder that has no bearing on the question raised. Large corporations disinvest and restructure all the time. My question was directed at that possibility, and given the unstable economic conditions in SW Michigan, I was wondering, out loud, if there would be local business people willing to step in to keep the team in Detroit. Especially if the on-field product withers.

As stated before, no desire to continue a discussion with you. I clarified my earlier statement....and I am sure you will follow with some snide, asshole remark. Be my guest to have the last word on this topic, as you must. (OCD?)

 

[broncosmitty]

That was the old CBA smitty... what part of the fact there are no more type a or type b free agents and no arbitration past arb years anymore are you not getting? It has been 4 years now since the new system came into play.

I didn't major in Current Events. Lol