Derek Jeter's career OPS+ ranks tied for 498th

[DirtDirtDirt]

There are a bunch of sabre stats that I find dubious as well, to varying degrees, including WAR. But OPS+ and ERA+ are two of the most useful stats.

I can appreciate that

When I say "crutch", cause take our friend Rock Strongo. If you compare a player he hates to a player he loves, he will track down any sabemetric measure to use in his argument, with no regard to its validity

 

[Rock Strongo]

perfect examples of the facade the standard stats give us:

bill buckner, a great hitter...had 3 seasons of 100 RBI, 2 of them back to back for the sox in his mid 30's. that used to be something i pointed to as a good year.

then you look at the OPS...

.783 was his best in those 3 years, and it came in chicago.

.773 and .733 in boston.

 

[Indrid Cold]

No, if he had 2800 hits he would still make it because of his legacy. But, his legacy was built upon the exaggeration of his importance to his team by the New York media, Fox Sports and ESPN.

He has his career with 2800 hits in at least 25 other francchises, and he is just another Bill Buckner/Al Oliver/Rusty Staub/Vada Pinson/Dave Parker/Harold Baines.

Most of those guys were OF/DH types with little defensive value...you can say Jetes wasn't much of a SS, but imagine having Billy Buck or Parker playing there.

 

[Rock Strongo]

interesting...i had no idea randy johnson was the official photographer for Rush.

On Their Game: Randy Johnson and Geddy Lee | MLB.com

 

[Wazmankg]

Good God people. The guy had 3400+ hits and we're discussing whether he'd be in with 3000 ? wtf ? .916 OPS & .343 BA in 66 post season games. He was overrated defensively for much of his career and I hate the Yanks as much as the next guy, but geez. Ripken is tied for 602nd place in career OPS+ fwiw.

 

[chappee11]

If Ozzie Smith and Barry Larkin are in the HOF, I am not sure why there is even a discussion here. Same with Ryne Sandberg at 2B. There just aren't a lot of good middle infielders.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

most of us did.

most of us have since embraced the superior sabrmetric stats that show how a lot of that HR/RBI can be deceiving.

Yet you're still clinging to how bad a K is?

 

[Rock Strongo]

Yet you're still clinging to how bad a K is?

Yes, because at the end of the day , failing to do your job with the bat...even put it in play and hope for an error or a hole...is the worst possible outcome when trying to hit.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Yes, because at the end of the day , failing to do your job with the bat...even put it in play and hope for an error or a hole...is the worst possible outcome when trying to hit.

So striking out is worse than grounding into a double play?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Yes, because at the end of the day , failing to do your job with the bat...even put it in play and hope for an error or a hole...is the worst possible outcome when trying to hit.

False. There are worse outcomes at the plate than Ks.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

So striking out is worse than grounding into a double play?

Exactly.

Jeter has a career OBP of .377. He didn't have a problem with making too many outs.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

i hate these threads, the yankee haters are just baiting the yankee fans... I am pretty sure that everyone knows that derek jeter is a HOF player and almost guaranteed to be a first balloter...

if you want to debate that he is one of the WORST of the greats, then you are probably correct... If you want to even call him over-rated because he really never had any GREAT seasons, then you are probably correct too... But don't bring up OPS, and don't claim that he is ONLY a HOF because of the milestone...

 

[StanMarsh51]

Larkin is a fair argument. And I wasn't claiming that he had no shot. But it would be a lot harder.

Well you could say that about a lot of players. If Jeter or Biggio or Ripken for instance all retired a few years earlier and ended up with say, 2800ish hits, I'd still say they were HOF worthy, given their numbers are historically great for their positions.

 

[navamind]

Good God people. The guy had 3400+ hits and we're discussing whether he'd be in with 3000 ? wtf ? .916 OPS & .343 BA in 66 post season games. He was overrated defensively for much of his career and I hate the Yanks as much as the next guy, but geez. Ripken is tied for 602nd place in career OPS+ fwiw.

Most of this thread is blatant trolling.

Jeter didn't have a .343 BA and .916 OPS in 66 postseason games though. Those are his ALDS stats. His career postseason line is .308/.374/.465 in 734 PA, more or less in line with his career averages. Which is still pretty damn impressive.

 

[bksballer89]

comical thread.

It is amazing how much people hate Jeter

 

[DragonfromTO]

Good God people. The guy had 3400+ hits and we're discussing whether he'd be in with 3000 ? wtf ? .916 OPS & .343 BA in 66 post season games. He was overrated defensively for much of his career and I hate the Yanks as much as the next guy, but geez. Ripken is tied for 602nd place in career OPS+ fwiw.

No, you are reading his stat line wrong. .838 OPS and .308 BA for the postseason, in 158 games.

 

[Rock Strongo]

So striking out is worse than grounding into a double play?

no, i didnt say that. my scenario is a batter facing a pitcher, nothing else.

so yes a k is the worst possible outcome for an AB based on the job at hand.

why didnt you say triple play?

 

[Wazmankg]

No, you are reading his stat line wrong. .838 OPS and .308 BA for the postseason, in 158 games.

Ok, right. Yeah that was just alds. Still that's pretty impressive for basically a year's worth of games over 20 years on the biggest stage against the strongest competition. I just know that when he broke his leg against the Tigers in the ALCS a few years ago, while I wasn't glad that he got hurt, I was glad that they he wasn't going to be in the lineup anymore.

 

[DragonfromTO]

no, i didnt say that. my scenario is a batter facing a pitcher, nothing else.

so yes a k is the worst possible outcome for an AB based on the job at hand.

why didnt you say triple play?

But if there is no one on base (as you seem to be saying you were implying) then how is any type of out worse than any other from a team value standpoint in that situation anyway?

 

[Rock Strongo]

But if there is no one on base (as you seem to be saying you were implying) then how is any type of out worse than any other from a team value standpoint in that situation anyway?

again, 3rd time.

make contact, put the ball in play...theres a chance. a K, there is ZERO chance.