Dalton is a Mary

[cincygrad]

Don't they by definition put the QB in shotgun to give him more time to look downfield and find a open receiver? I saw Eifert off the screen, who knows where the LB or safety was at. I saw Bernard coming off the screen but it looked like someone was fading to that side of the field. If Dalton tried to get that to Bernard, I am not so sure that he doesn't lob it a bit more towards the numbers to get it OVER all the bating ball hands and it hangs up just long enough for the LB on Bernard to race to that spot, pick it off and go in for 6.

Dalton had nothing on that play, or at least nothing to where a player was looking or expecting anything before the tidal wave just blew him away.

PS.. Palmer sucks too.

There's a thread for that!

 

[DanBengalfan]

ain't nobody got time fir that

The Cincinnati Bengals, the only team in history who gives up when they have a 2 game lead.

 

[flamingrey]

What makes you say that? You have no idea what the play was designed to do. You can see exactly two receivers on a 2X3 crappy .gif and now you're an expert on play design?
Was the offensive line also told to get run over? Again, it wasn't like a screen play where they were supposed to engage and release. There wasn't a single lineman that released or appeared to try to release.

How about a little common sense? But I probably expect too much from this board.

3 step drop. Baltimore is bringing pressure. Most importantly, Eifert and Bernard release almost immediately and both turn right away on very short routes looking for the ball.

Did the pressure get there much sooner than they would have liked? Absolutely. But it is clear as day with BOTH Eifert and Bernard only chipping that Dalton was supposed to make a quick read and get rid of the ball, either to Bernard or Eifert if his first read wasn't open. A little common sense and a little logic go a long way. Just sayin'.

 

[flamingrey]

If you are going to slam Dalton for that one single play, then there is no hope for Dalton with Hokie. Because that was the least Dalton's fault I have ever seen, it only gets worse from that point. So if Dalton was to blame on that, there is no point even discussing Dalton with Hokie, or you, because I got your answer to every other comment I ever make regarding Dalton, "it's his fault".

Liar.

When did you take me off ignore?

 

[flamingrey]

Don't they by definition put the QB in shotgun to give him more time to look downfield and find a open receiver? I saw Eifert off the screen, who knows where the LB or safety was at. I saw Bernard coming off the screen but it looked like someone was fading to that side of the field. If Dalton tried to get that to Bernard, I am not so sure that he doesn't lob it a bit more towards the numbers to get it OVER all the bating ball hands and it hangs up just long enough for the LB on Bernard to race to that spot, pick it off and go in for 6.

Dalton had nothing on that play, or at least nothing to where a player was looking or expecting anything before the tidal wave just blew him away.

PS.. Palmer sucks too.

You're full of it. But you will never stop.

The MLB was backing up and as you'd expect on a 3rd and very long play, he was likely hanging around the 1st down marker, 10 yards behind Bernard.

As far as your Palmer comment goes, you can try as hard as you'd like, but I am not like you, I don't get unhinged.

 

[DanBengalfan]

But you will never stop.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDTJGvixgF0]ZZ Top - Can't stop rockin' - YouTube[/ame]

 

[cincygrad]

How about a little common sense? But I probably expect too much from this board.

3 step drop. Baltimore is bringing pressure. Most importantly, Eifert and Bernard release almost immediately and both turn right away on very short routes looking for the ball.

Did the pressure get there much sooner than they would have liked? Absolutely. But it is clear as day with BOTH Eifert and Bernard only chipping that Dalton was supposed to make a quick read and get rid of the ball, either to Bernard or Eifert if his first read wasn't open. A little common sense and a little logic go a long way. Just sayin'.

You can take your talents to another board. You wont' be missed.

The three step drop came out of the SHOTGUN. That is MUCH different than a three step drop from center. While two receivers release late (Eiftert and Gio), the play clearly affords the opportunity to push the ball down field if the pocket isn't destroyed.

It's really just common sense Rey.

 

[cincygrad]

You're full of it. But you will never stop.

The MLB was backing up and as you'd expect on a 3rd and very long play, he was likely hanging around the 1st down marker, 10 yards behind Bernard.

As far as your Palmer comment goes, you can try as hard as you'd like, but I am not like you, I don't get unhinged.

LOL! That's rich.

So the snarky little comments you make when referring to others is just your general personality?

 

[Cincyfan78]

I dont know why anyone keeps responding to him. Really.

I mean, don't you all know that his word is Gold, and that he is always right? I mean, I don't know why we haven't changed the name of this board to reflect is all-knowing superiority. The guy can look at crappy gifs, know the exact down/distance/play-call, and check-down list, who is on the field, what the defense call is, and what color the ref's underwear is...I mean, really. Why does anyone debate his all knowing intellect? We are all just peons sucking at the teat of his knowledge even if we don't know it.

 

[flamingrey]

LOL! That's rich.

So the snarky little comments you make when referring to others is just your general personality?

Generally.

 

[flamingrey]

I dont know why anyone keeps responding to him. Really.

I mean, don't you all know that his word is Gold, and that he is always right? I mean, I don't know why we haven't changed the name of this board to reflect is all-knowing superiority. The guy can look at crappy gifs, know the exact down/distance/play-call, and check-down list, who is on the field, what the defense call is, and what color the ref's underwear is...I mean, really. Why does anyone debate his all knowing intellect? We are all just peons sucking at the teat of his knowledge even if we don't know it.

Maybe I'm just better at paying attention to detail than you. In the beginning of the video if you pay attention to the bar at the top, it says 3rd down conversation rate "started 2/4, since 0/8". That is a good indication it is 3rd down. Why would they show that stat on any other down? Then, the blue line across the field indicates the LOS, which in this case is the 19 yard line. Then, there is this neat little website addressed ESPN: The Worldwide Leader In Sports that gives play by play. Knowing all this information, it is quite easy to pull up said website and figure out that the Bengals are down 14 points on 3rd and 13 in the 4th quarter (1st play).

Yup, ALL THAT from one "crappy gif".

Next, those little guys moving around within said gif are players. The ones wearing orange are Bengals, the purple goons are the Ravens. Throughout the play within the gif, we can account for 8 little purple guys and their location on the field which was mentioned in my original post. The only assumption I made was of the positioning of the MLB. But when you watch enough football, you come to pick up on certain tendencies of play calls....and a little common sense. He's out of view at one point, so he's at a minimum 6 yards passed the LOS. By why stop there? Why leave 7 yards between you and the 1st down marker where another receiver can get open? Logic tells you he probably backed up even further to keep the play in front of him.

Next, unless your assumption is Bernard and Eifert are both doing whatever the hell they want to do on the field, it is obvious what their responsibility is as all of their motions are within the gif. And guess what, their timing is consistent with each other. So unless you think one of the o-lineman is Dalton's outlet (which would not be a legal play), it is obvious those are his checkdown men.

You got me on the refs underwear though.

Really, why is any of this difficult? I get it, you don't like my conclusion due to your man-love for Dalton, but that is my assessment. If you disagree, point out where you think my assessment is wrong and have a real debate instead of pouting just because you don't like it.

 

[flamingrey]

You can take your talents to another board. You wont' be missed.

The three step drop came out of the SHOTGUN. That is MUCH different than a three step drop from center. While two receivers release late (Eiftert and Gio), the play clearly affords the opportunity to push the ball down field if the pocket isn't destroyed.

It's really just common sense Rey.

See now, that is a good point. So instead of pouting, why didn't you just say this?

I agree, the play was designed to find a man beyond the 1st down marker. Why wouldn't it be? You play for the 1st down on 3rd down. But when either that man isn't open or the pressure is on because of bad o-line play as I also mentioned, you have to find your outlet - and in this case he had 2 and both of them did their jobs, open and looking for the ball.

But as I mentioned before, the most important thing to look at is how long Bernard and Eifert waited before their release. If the play was meant for Dalton to get comfortable in the pocket, at least 1 of them would have helped block much longer prior to releasing. Instead, both players chipped and immediately released. So either they didn't do their jobs or Dalton was slow making his decision though he wasn't given any help by of o-line. Personally, I'm leaning towards the latter. Why? Because Dalton gets uncomfortable when he feels/sees pressure, and it's unlikely that both players that were to release were both wrong at the same time.

 

[cincygrad]

Rey -- Perhaps in your diagnosis of the shitty .gif, and your complete misunderstanding of a passing game, you might want to revisit why it was posted in the first place. It was posted in response to the comment from Doug that our line's play was slowly declining as the season moves on. I simply posted a video aid. It was you and your obsession with Dalton that turned it into a conversation about the quarterback. Try not project your own obsessions on others.

And, Eifert and Bernard could simply have been following instructions..... If the Ravens were not sending more than the number of blockers (lineman), they then chip and release. Under circumstances of 'average' line play, this would still give them time to serve as outlets if everything was covered down the field. Dalton was not given time to hit the outlets, suggesting the line play was not good on that play.

I guess we can't count on you to pay attention, huh? Ooohhh.... Zinger. That feels good. I should try this douche role more often.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I hope Dalton has a good game Sunday and confuses everyone even more.

My feeling is Campbell will perform decently though.

 

[ckhokie]

And, Eifert and Bernard could simply have been following instructions..... If the Ravens were not sending more than the number of blockers (lineman), they then chip and release. Under circumstances of 'average' line play, this would still give them time to serve as outlets if everything was covered down the field. Dalton was not given time to hit the outlets, suggesting the line play was not good on that play.

They weren't 'last outlets' they were the reads...just like 70% of the plays we run. Sure the o-line didn't look good on the play, but pressure is going to come on plays like this. That's how they're designed. Dalton has to be able to get the ball out fast, and he did not. Our O-line has proven they're fairly decent this year, yet you still give a huge benefit of the doubt to Dalton.


I swear if this were Carson, people would be shitting on him 2 years later. Not sure why Dandyboy Dalton gets such a free pass.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

See now, that is a good point. So instead of pouting, why didn't you just say this?

I agree, the play was designed to find a man beyond the 1st down marker. Why wouldn't it be? You play for the 1st down on 3rd down. But when either that man isn't open or the pressure is on because of bad o-line play as I also mentioned, you have to find your outlet - and in this case he had 2 and both of them did their jobs, open and looking for the ball.

But as I mentioned before, the most important thing to look at is how long Bernard and Eifert waited before their release. If the play was meant for Dalton to get comfortable in the pocket, at least 1 of them would have helped block much longer prior to releasing. Instead, both players chipped and immediately released. So either they didn't do their jobs or Dalton was slow making his decision though he wasn't given any help by of o-line. Personally, I'm leaning towards the latter. Why? Because Dalton gets uncomfortable when he feels/sees pressure, and it's unlikely that both players that were to release were both wrong at the same time.

Is it possible, as a rookie (Eifert or Bernard) one, if not both, should have have recognized blitz coverage, and stayed in to block instead of chip and go out? I am not saying this was the case, but is it possible?

The play was to go beyond the 1st down marker, not check down. A guy like you, Dalton was in a lose lose situation. He checks down, he is a wuss, has no pocket awareness and can't read a defense so he goes with the easy route, yet again, failing on 3rd down and forcing us to punt. Or 2, he holds the ball a second longer, finds a way to avoid the rush and then trys to get it down field. Problem is, a route downfield take a few seconds to develop, and it requires a QB to step into a throw, not throw off his back foot. He goes downfield, INTO the wind, the ball soars, he throws another pick, Ravens are in FG at minimum, if not scoring a TD when already down big in the 4th quarter. He can't throw it away in that situation, because he has to throw it in the vacinity of a reciever and it has to travel towards the line of scrimmage, and throwing out of bounds into that wind, requires a step up into the pocket as well as the wind is in your face and you are still having to throw the ball a minimum of 25 yards to even reach the out of bounds border.

I suggest, you may know what you are talking about, but in reality you are just guessing. Also, everytime you get snarky and have a big elaborate response, you are getting defensive and therefore, you are starting to come "unhinged" as well. One simple comment at that poiint when that thread start unraveling could be the beginning of you throwing around names like moron and idiot, etc.

I never put you on ignore, just stated I did so you would make less comments towards me. I saw all your stupid ass comments regarding my posts, I just choose not to reply to them making you feel like you were on ignore. However, you go nutty like you have in the past, and I will again. I prefer not to, as this is a discussion board, you just seem to make every post you make so personal towards the one you are commenting to, regardless of who that is. You really are not quite as smart as you think you are.

 

[flamingrey]

Rey -- Perhaps in your diagnosis of the shitty .gif, and your complete misunderstanding of a passing game, you might want to revisit why it was posted in the first place. It was posted in response to the comment from Doug that our line's play was slowly declining as the season moves on. I simply posted a video aid. It was you and your obsession with Dalton that turned it into a conversation about the quarterback. Try not project your own obsessions on others.

And, Eifert and Bernard could simply have been following instructions..... If the Ravens were not sending more than the number of blockers (lineman), they then chip and release. Under circumstances of 'average' line play, this would still give them time to serve as outlets if everything was covered down the field. Dalton was not given time to hit the outlets, suggesting the line play was not good on that play.

I guess we can't count on you to pay attention, huh? Ooohhh.... Zinger. That feels good. I should try this douche role more often.

Wait, you mean the 5 posts (out of 6 after you posted the gif) before mine by 4 different posters including yourself didn't make this about Dalton? Now who isn't paying attention? I saw the assessments by those 4 people of that gif and gave my own input. Nice try at the deflection though.

I also understand you don't like my assessment, but don't take it out on the gif. It's actually pretty good. The only thing you can't see is whether the receivers got open or not, but considering the bad o-line, that's a moot point. So the gif is pretty darn good.

For probably the 4th time, the line play was not good. Let's move past that. Despite the line play, Dalton still could have hit Bernard in the middle of the field. Is it not Dalton's job to assess how much time he has when making a play? When he sees the pocket quickly collapsing, is it not his job to try to hit his outlet who was already in motion and would have been ready for a reception by the time the ball got there? Quite often you see even average QB's dropping a pass at the feet of their outlet to avoid a sack because they don't have time to wait for their outlet to get turned around. Is that beyond Dalton's responsibilities? Is it too much to expect?

 

[flamingrey]

Is it possible, as a rookie (Eifert or Bernard) one, if not both, should have have recognized blitz coverage, and stayed in to block instead of chip and go out? I am not saying this was the case, but is it possible?

The play was to go beyond the 1st down marker, not check down. A guy like you, Dalton was in a lose lose situation. 1. He checks down, he is a wuss, has no pocket awareness and can't read a defense so he goes with the easy route, yet again, failing on 3rd down and forcing us to punt. Or 2, he holds the ball a second longer, finds a way to avoid the rush and then trys to get it down field. Problem is, a route downfield take a few seconds to develop, and it requires a QB to step into a throw, not throw off his back foot. He goes downfield, INTO the wind, the ball soars, he throws another pick, Ravens are in FG at minimum, if not scoring a TD when already down big in the 4th quarter. He can't throw it away in that situation, because he has to throw it in the vacinity of a reciever and it has to travel towards the line of scrimmage, and throwing out of bounds into that wind, requires a step up into the pocket as well as the wind is in your face and you are still having to throw the ball a minimum of 25 yards to even reach the out of bounds border.

2. I suggest, you may know what you are talking about, but in reality you are just guessing. Also, everytime you get snarky 3. and have a big elaborate response, you are getting defensive and therefore, you are starting to come "unhinged" as well. One simple comment at that poiint when that thread start unraveling could be 4. the beginning of you throwing around names like moron and idiot, etc.
I never put you on ignore, just stated I did so you would make less comments towards me. 5. I saw all your stupid ass comments regarding my posts, I just choose not to reply to them making you feel like you were on ignore. 6. However, you go nutty like you have in the past, and I will again. I prefer not to, as this is a discussion board, you just seem to make every post you make so personal towards the one you are commenting to, regardless of who that is. You really are not quite as smart as you think you are.

1) That's a lie. When I see Dalton throwing to a receiver 3 yards short of the 1st down on a 3rd and 7, I'll say something. When he goes to his checkdown because the pocket collapses, it clearly isn't his fault. When he goes to his checkdown while he still has a clean pocket, then it is his fault. Simple. I'm not sure what pocket awareness has to do with going with a checkdown though.

2) DUH. It's my opinion of the play. My assessment based on the evidence I see on the fault and to a much lesser extent, based on what Dalton has already shown himself to be. Nobody ever suggested otherwise.

3) No, unhinged are the temper tantrums you throw, namely the one from 4 weeks ago when everyone was getting on Dalton. My elaborate responses are always backed by stats and/or some sort of evidence. I don't do elaborate responses like yours to explain how the wind picked up the ball and made it soar for an interception.

4) Another lie. I don't call people idiots or morons (I may have used the term idiot once or twice out of jest, but not for someone's opinion or to personally attack someone). I leave that to Kramer and you.

5) Another lie. You didn't see anything because I've ignored your posts for the better part of 2 months. Kind of like your other long winded post on the other page. I read the 1st paragraph and then moved on.

6) Again, the only one here who goes nutty is you.

 

[kramer1]

I told you guys to put that asshat on ignore.

 

[cincygrad]

They weren't 'last outlets' they were the reads...just like 70% of the plays we run. Sure the o-line didn't look good on the play, but pressure is going to come on plays like this. That's how they're designed. Dalton has to be able to get the ball out fast, and he did not. Our O-line has proven they're fairly decent this year, yet you still give a huge benefit of the doubt to Dalton.


I swear if this were Carson, people would be shitting on him 2 years later. Not sure why Dandyboy Dalton gets such a free pass.

A three step drop out of a shotgun formation on third and long without a blitz is designed to get the ball out fast? That simply makes no sense.

The line has been very good this year. They've had two down weeks from the hight standard they set early in the season.

I'm not sure how Dalton is getting a free pass. The thread was started with a .gif that was intended to make fun of him. Everyone has universally agreed that he sucked last game.... But what's so sacred about the O-line? One post questions their play and it turns into some large debate. The stats back up the fact that they weren't very good on Sunday..... It's not like we're using one play that isn't representative of the type of game they played.