Dalton is a Mary

[cincygrad]

Strong O-Line player here.

 

[bengaldoug]

That makes sense, and this is what I was kind of eluding to. It seems that, on more than one occasion, the defense has "surprised" the offense by bringing more blitzers than the play calls for blockers. So, if you release both your TE's and your RB, and the defense overloads by bringing 6 guys...someone is unaccounted for.

Of course, when an OL is playing poorly, it always seems to have less blockers than needed, and of course, it goes the otherway, too.

Also, when more blitzers than can be blocked rush, someone is wide open, and Dalton needs to do a better job of finding that open guy.

 

[ckhokie]

Strong O-Line player here.

Nice attempt, but your cherry picking doesn't work here.

Bernard runs straight out of the backfield and Eiffert only chips his man at the line because they're setting up a screen or short dump off. The play is designed for someone like Gio to get behind the pressure.

Gio and Eiffert are wide open, as the play calls for. The ball needs to be out quick, and it wasn't.

 

[DanBengalfan]

looks like the left guard got his butt smacked, and it also looked like the OL wasn't ready to start for some reason.

 

[cincygrad]

Nice attempt, but your cherry picking doesn't work here.

Bernard runs straight out of the backfield and Eiffert only chips his man at the line because they're setting up a screen or short dump off. The play is designed for someone like Gio to get behind the pressure.

Gio and Eiffert are wide open, as the play calls for. The ball needs to be out quick, and it wasn't.

I'm not cherry picking .... I just happened upon this gif when reading an article this morning. I've been happy with the pass blocking this season. On average they've been very good....Though I'm starting to worry that Whit's knee is seriously hurt.

As for the .gif... I just thought it was funny because half of our line ends up on the ground. I disagree that they were setting up a screen though. If they were, they designed a screen with absolutely no blockers in play. It does look like they had delayed routes out of the backfield (with Eifert and Gio).... But either the blocking was bad or the timing sucked because Dalton was already consumed in the pocket by the time Eifert started making his break.

 

[bengaldoug]

Nice attempt, but your cherry picking doesn't work here.

Bernard runs straight out of the backfield and Eiffert only chips his man at the line because they're setting up a screen or short dump off. The play is designed for someone like Gio to get behind the pressure.

Gio and Eiffert are wide open, as the play calls for. The ball needs to be out quick, and it wasn't.

I disagree. Dalton never had a chance on that play. Many others can be blamed directly to him, just not this one. Boling was pushed directly back into Dalton.

 

[ckhokie]

As for the .gif... I just thought it was funny because half of our line ends up on the ground. I disagree that they were setting up a screen though. If they were, they designed a screen with absolutely no blockers in play. It does look like they had delayed routes out of the backfield (with Eifert and Gio).... But either the blocking was bad or the timing sucked because Dalton was already consumed in the pocket by the time Eifert started making his break.

Maybe 'screen' isn't the right word, as this isn't traditionally a screen as there was no pulling blocker as you pointed out.

Call it every other dink and dump down pass play that we run, though. It was designed to have an option on either side for a 3 yard throw.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Nice attempt, but your cherry picking doesn't work here.

Bernard runs straight out of the backfield and Eiffert only chips his man at the line because they're setting up a screen or short dump off. The play is designed for someone like Gio to get behind the pressure.

Gio and Eiffert are wide open, as the play calls for. The ball needs to be out quick, and it wasn't.

Jesus. I may as well not even worry about arguing with you on whose fault anything on this team can be, because with you, it will always be Dalton if you are blaming that video still on Dalton. Dalton didn't stand a chance. He finished his drop back and offensive lineman were falling at his feet with 6'5" mammoths right in his face.

Dalton is actually lucky he didn't get crushed on that play by someone falling on his legs or landing on him and breaking ribs, fingers, etc.

 

[flamingrey]

Strong O-Line player here.

Context is important here, particularly down, distance, and to a lesser extent- because an entire quarter was remaining - the score.

This was the 1st play of the 4th quarter. 3rd and 13 at the Bengals 19 yard line.

Protection here is obviously not good. They share in part of the blame no matter which way you look at it.

That said, the ball either should have been lobbed to either Bernard or Eifert even BEFORE they turned their heads or waited until right before being hit and throwing a pass to either of them. They were Dalton's 'hots' on the play.

Based on what I can see of the coverage, Eifert was likely wide open, but slower than Bernard, and 13 yards from a 1st down, so I don't see him as the best option here.

In the middle of the field, you can see the MLB sitting on Bernard's release dropping back probably close to the 1st down marker, so given the pressure, he's your best option at probably a 25/75 success rate of getting a 1st down (this is in my head as we can only account for 8 of the defenders - 5 rushers, 2 on Eifert's side, and the MLB. No idea where the other 3 are). It's difficult here to go for the checkdown, but Bernard is our best playmaker in the open field, so you have to give him a chance with the pressure coming in as it is.

So assessing this play, given the down, distance and being down 2 scores, you can't throw too much blame on Dalton here for holding on to the ball to try to find a receiver passed the 1st down marker; however, 1) he's losing the field position battle taking the sack and not picking up the at least 8 yards he would have gotten releasing the ball to Bernard, and 2) as is typical for him, he isn't giving his players a chance. In his head, he should have known that if I've made up my mind to try to throw for the 1st down, if I can't find a receiver passed the markers, right before I get hit, I have to release to Bernard. That's part of the awareness that needs to be in his game. But I imagine as is also typical for him, he saw the pressure and crumbled.

In conclusion, the o-line HAS to be better there on 3rd down, but Dalton isn't free of blame. He cannot hold onto that ball.

 

[flamingrey]

Jesus. I may as well not even worry about arguing with you on whose fault anything on this team can be, because with you, it will always be Dalton if you are blaming that video still on Dalton. Dalton didn't stand a chance. He finished his drop back and offensive lineman were falling at his feet with 6'5" mammoths right in his face.

Dalton is actually lucky he didn't get crushed on that play by someone falling on his legs or landing on him and breaking ribs, fingers, etc.

Who are you, Dalton's mother? What you just said to hokie applies just as much to you. You're a ridiculous homer that cannot be reasoned with. And this post is evidence of it.

Textbook the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[bengaldoug]

Imho nobody, not even Peyton Manning, gets a pass off anywhere on that play. There are plenty of other plays that demonstrate Dalton's tendency to panic and hold the ball. This wasn't one of them.

 

[flamingrey]

Imho nobody, not even Peyton Manning, gets a pass off anywhere on that play. There are plenty of other plays that demonstrate Dalton's tendency to panic and hold the ball. This wasn't one of them.

If he wasn't already sitting in shotgun and doing a 3-step drop, I'd agree. Not only could he see the play unfolding sitting in shotgun and the line collapsing, but with the 3-step drop, the play wasn't designed for him to hold the ball too long.

 

[bengaldoug]

If he wasn't already sitting in shotgun and doing a 3-step drop, I'd agree. Not only could he see the play unfolding sitting in shotgun and the line collapsing, but with the 3-step drop, the play wasn't designed for him to hold the ball too long.

There's not much you can do when the pressure comes up the middle. Maybe he could have sprinted out away from it, but there was really very little time to do anything there. The lineman, Boling I believe, was beaten so quickly and so badly and shoved into Dalton so that getting the ball off was difficult if not impossible. I agree Eifert appeared to be open, but there wasn't really time to get the ball to him. I would like to see more of these, because some of them definitely will show that Dalton is often indecisive. I just think there are much better examples to make the case.

I believe he was sacked within two seconds of the snap.

 

[flamingrey]

There isn't anything you can do in terms of getting away from the pressure when it comes up the middle like that. Agreed. But he had time to hit Bernard.

 

[bengaldoug]

Looked to me like by the time Bernard was starting his route, which was delayed, Dalton was already going down. Like I said, I am sure we can find several better examples to demonstrate his tendency to hold the ball, just from Sunday, which was the worst game I've ever seen him play.

 

[cincygrad]

If he wasn't already sitting in shotgun and doing a 3-step drop, I'd agree. Not only could he see the play unfolding sitting in shotgun and the line collapsing, but with the 3-step drop, the play wasn't designed for him to hold the ball too long.

What makes you say that? You have no idea what the play was designed to do. You can see exactly two receivers on a 2X3 crappy .gif and now you're an expert on play design?

Was the offensive line also told to get run over? Again, it wasn't like a screen play where they were supposed to engage and release. There wasn't a single lineman that released or appeared to try to release.

 

[DanBengalfan]

every single OLineman got beat on that play, that's telling. It's like they didn't see it coming, they were basically all 1 second behind, as if the Ravens knew the snap count or cadence better than Dalton's own OL. obviously some communication breakdown there...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Who are you, Dalton's mother? What you just said to hokie applies just as much to you. You're a ridiculous homer that cannot be reasoned with. And this post is evidence of it.

Textbook the pot calling the kettle black.

You are out of your mind. I was basing my entire comment on that one single play.

If you are going to slam Dalton for that one single play, then there is no hope for Dalton with Hokie. Because that was the least Dalton's fault I have ever seen, it only gets worse from that point. So if Dalton was to blame on that, there is no point even discussing Dalton with Hokie, or you, because I got your answer to every other comment I ever make regarding Dalton, "it's his fault".

I freely admit, Dalton sucked so bad on Sunday, I don't even know where to begin. That game was horrible. I did see Flacco's press conference regarding the game, and a reporter asked him if the wind was a factor. Flacco said that was the worst wind he had ever seen at M&T Bank. He said, the only time it was probably ever worse wind in his career was his rookie season in the Meadowlands.

That is kinda telling. He said of course it was his fault he didn't compensate more, but how easy is it for a QB to compensate while holding a ball, looking for opening routes, avoid pressure, and then throw to a WR who is sprinting across the field or going deep. Muscle memory just takes over and you throw it as if there was no wind basically, because based on a guys speed, you have throw him a crossing pattern or an out 1000 times, and you get used to their speed and where the ball needs to be. Hard to account for that much wind and the players speed and the 300 pound DL trying to kill you.

Flacco admitted that was a tough game, and I am sure the same would go for Dalton. However, Dalton was not even close to guys on some of these throws, and that has to go on him, not no dang wind.

Dalton needs more pocket awareness...almost like, stop looking downfield for a second, know where your guys are going to be, watch the rush from the DL unfold a second, step into a safe zone, and then pick up your routes and get rid of the ball quickly. He needs more pocket awareness and not to be so focused on the guys downfield. He also needs to work on reducing the number of turnovers he alone is creating this year. His downfield arm strength is never goign to improve, so no point in discussing that. By this time in his life, that has developed about as well as that is going to.

Has nothing to do with any pot calling kettle black, because it doesn't even translate based on what I was comparing this to. I am a homer, why shouldn't I be? This is my team, and I am a fan"atic". I wish Dalton was better in certain areas, but no point in whining and bitching over somethign that is not goign to change, 500 times a week. A topic or two, sure. But almost every thread comes back to Dalton. That horse was beat so badly, its offspring's offspring has felt the aftermath of that beating.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If he wasn't already sitting in shotgun and doing a 3-step drop, I'd agree. Not only could he see the play unfolding sitting in shotgun and the line collapsing, but with the 3-step drop, the play wasn't designed for him to hold the ball too long.

Don't they by definition put the QB in shotgun to give him more time to look downfield and find a open receiver? I saw Eifert off the screen, who knows where the LB or safety was at. I saw Bernard coming off the screen but it looked like someone was fading to that side of the field. If Dalton tried to get that to Bernard, I am not so sure that he doesn't lob it a bit more towards the numbers to get it OVER all the bating ball hands and it hangs up just long enough for the LB on Bernard to race to that spot, pick it off and go in for 6.

Dalton had nothing on that play, or at least nothing to where a player was looking or expecting anything before the tidal wave just blew him away.

PS.. Palmer sucks too.

 

[bengaldoug]

What makes you say that? You have no idea what the play was designed to do. You can see exactly two receivers on a 2X3 crappy .gif and now you're an expert on play design?

Was the offensive line also told to get run over? Again, it wasn't like a screen play where they were supposed to engage and release. There wasn't a single lineman that released or appeared to try to release.

That is because they were too busy getting steamrolled to release. That was a jailbreak. And I understood instantly why you posted that play. It was hilarious. Everyone fell in a pile on Dalton.