Dalton is a Mary

[kramer1]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3545529/daltonface_medium.gif

 

[kramer1]

 

[flamingrey]

LOL.

 

[DanBengalfan]

the lineman was doing a great job as well.

 

[shouldakepowens]

I've said it for a few years he makes the greatest facial expression in the nfl

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Dalton is not a great QB, but he is decent, but too inconsistant.

He is 3rd in the NFL in yards passing behind only Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. He can be really good, he can be really bad from game to game. Just never know the Dalton you are goign to get, which is why he needs to average these games out and put up those median stats per game on a more consistant basis instead of being so up and down.

Median the last two weeks would have won us both those games. It is the pure crapper games that are hurting us.

Consistancy is the key, and Dalton will be a pretty darn good QB for this team.

 

[Servo]

Dalton is not a great QB, but he is decent, but too inconsistant.

He is 3rd in the NFL in yards passing behind only Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. He can be really good, he can be really bad from game to game. Just never know the Dalton you are goign to get, which is why he needs to average these games out and put up those median stats per game on a more consistant basis instead of being so up and down.

Median the last two weeks would have won us both those games. It is the pure crapper games that are hurting us.

Consistancy is the key, and Dalton will be a pretty darn good QB for this team.

Crash, he's Jon Kitna. He'll be up and down, we'll talk about what a great guy he is and we'll all really want him to be the guy but ultimately not a QB that can take a team to the next level. Especially in today's QB driven league. Kitna had great games too but did not have the talent to sustain success. Same thing with Dalton. He's not terrible, but he's far from a franchise QB.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Crash, he's Jon Kitna. He'll be up and down, we'll talk about what a great guy he is and we'll all really want him to be the guy but ultimately not a QB that can take a team to the next level. Especially in today's QB driven league. Kitna had great games too but did not have the talent to sustain success. Same thing with Dalton. He's not terrible, but he's far from a franchise QB.

In a QB driven league, he is #3 in the NFL in yards and on pace for over 4500 yards passing. I mean, he can fling the ball, but he is too inconsistant and is producing too many TO's this year. Kitna even in his best years when there were not as many really good QB's was never near #3 in the NFL in passing. Kitna also didn't have the games Dalton has when he is "on fire" either.

As I have said, Dalton is not without fault, he has plenty of fault, but where his overall fault lies is within his consistancy. Dalton doesn't need to work on his game other than his consistancy. You can't work on arm strength really. By this time in their life, you either have that ability now, or you are not ever going to have it. A little more pocket awareness and where the soft spots are in the pocket and consistancy passing. Outside that, I think his accuracy for the most part is pretty good, his leadership, his attitude and overall stats, not too bad.

Dalton #3 in NFL in passing yards (near 3000 yards already)
Green #1 in the NFL in receiving yards (over 1000 now)
Burfict #1 in the NFL in tackles (over 100 already)

We are doing okay with playmakers, but we need less mistakes, and more consistancy from everyone actually, not just Dalton.

 

[Servo]

In a QB driven league, he is #3 in the NFL in yards and on pace for over 4500 yards passing. I mean, he can fling the ball, but he is too inconsistant and is producing too many TO's this year. Kitna even in his best years when there were not as many really good QB's was never near #3 in the NFL in passing. Kitna also didn't have the games Dalton has when he is "on fire" either.

As I have said, Dalton is not without fault, he has plenty of fault, but where his overall fault lies is within his consistancy. Dalton doesn't need to work on his game other than his consistancy. You can't work on arm strength really. By this time in their life, you either have that ability now, or you are not ever going to have it. A little more pocket awareness and where the soft spots are in the pocket and consistancy passing. Outside that, I think his accuracy for the most part is pretty good, his leadership, his attitude and overall stats, not too bad.

Dalton #3 in NFL in passing yards (near 3000 yards already)
Green #1 in the NFL in receiving yards (over 1000 now)
Burfict #1 in the NFL in tackles (over 100 already)

We are doing okay with playmakers, but we need less mistakes, and more consistancy from everyone actually, not just Dalton.

It's a good point. I compare him more to Kitna based on the eyeball test rather than his production. But I'm assuming all of us have probably watched every snap Andy Dalton has taken. Even when he is 'on fire' he still has limitations. Namely, the deep ball. Against Detroit he was brilliant but still missed badly down the field. I can live with his limitations if he's making good reads and accurate under 30 yards, but when he's bad it's like he's both physically and mentally limited. Despite his completion % and yards I still think he's an average QB at best that is blessed with a ton of talent at his disposal on offense. So while the offense hasn't been awful, it just seems like they're leaving a lot on the field due to the limitations of the QB when he's not on (which seems to be about 2/3 of the time). I think we saw Dalton's ceiling v Detroit and NYJ and I'm good with that..it's just that he needs to play to that level more often. Honestly, those were the only two weeks in his career when I thought he played at an extremely high level. Most the time he's either 'meh' 'pretty good' or just flat awful.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's a good point. I compare him more to Kitna based on the eyeball test rather than his production. But I'm assuming all of us have probably watched every snap Andy Dalton has taken. Even when he is 'on fire' he still has limitations. Namely, the deep ball. Against Detroit he was brilliant but still missed badly down the field. I can live with his limitations if he's making good reads and accurate under 30 yards, but when he's bad it's like he's both physically and mentally limited. Despite his completion % and yards I still think he's an average QB at best that is blessed with a ton of talent at his disposal on offense. So while the offense hasn't been awful, it just seems like they're leaving a lot on the field due to the limitations of the QB when he's not on (which seems to be about 2/3 of the time). I think we saw Dalton's ceiling v Detroit and NYJ and I'm good with that..it's just that he needs to play to that level more often. Honestly, those were the only two weeks in his career when I thought he played at an extremely high level. Most the time he's either 'meh' 'pretty good' or just flat awful.

As Cool Joe Flacco showed last year, all you need to do is get hot at the right time. At least now we now that Andy can't get hot, can carry an offense for a few weeks at a time.

Now, the question becomes...can he do it in the playoffs...Not so sure, but we'll see.

I see him like a slightly better Kitna, but that is a good comp.

He's not a guy that's going to put the team on his shoulder week in and out on offense and win 7-8-9 games on his arm like a Manning/Brady/Brees/Rodgers...

But with a good enough defense, and oportunistic offense...getting hot at the right time could make things interesting.

At least, that's the hope. And we might as well hope for that, because as I've said before...we are stuck with Dalton for the future.

 

[Servo]

I keep hoping that the Bengals will go into the playoffs hot instead of backpeddling in which seems to be their M.O. If the team stays healthy and if they're clicking on both offense and defense they'll be a tough out if Lewis can competently manage the game (and no I didn't have an issue with him going for it on 4th in OT or the first half). I think we can expect the defense to be good enough to win. The offense all comes down to Dalton. I will say that O-line has looked bad the past couple weeks. They're just getting destroyed on the interior and Whit just gets his ass handed to him by speed rushers. I think since we know we're not taking a QB round 1 next year (as much as some of us think they should) they should target a LT.

 

[cincygrad]

I keep hoping that the Bengals will go into the playoffs hot instead of backpeddling in which seems to be their M.O. If the team stays healthy and if they're clicking on both offense and defense they'll be a tough out if Lewis can competently manage the game (and no I didn't have an issue with him going for it on 4th in OT or the first half). I think we can expect the defense to be good enough to win. The offense all comes down to Dalton. I will say that O-line has looked bad the past couple weeks. They're just getting destroyed on the interior and Whit just gets his ass handed to him by speed rushers. I think since we know we're not taking a QB round 1 next year (as much as some of us think they should) they should target a LT.

I wonder if Whit would consider moving inside to prolong his career -- I think his difficulties against speed rushers will only become more pronounced with age. He seems to be an effective guard when he moves inside.... And we know he's athletic enough to pull and make solid run blocks in space.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I wonder if Whit would consider moving inside to prolong his career -- I think his difficulties against speed rushers will only become more pronounced with age. He seems to be an effective guard when he moves inside.... And we know he's athletic enough to pull and make solid run blocks in space.

You could easily just slide Whit into LG and Collins in at LT.

I do agree, while Dalton's decision making has not been great, he has not been helped out on the myriad of dropped passes, or the OL not being able to keep him clean.

While Dalton will get most of the blame (as he should as the QB) it has been a true offensive/Team failure the past few weeks.

Also, I will say...there is NO REASON that dalton should be throwing as many passes as he is. He currently leads the NFL with 383 attempts (or there abouts). Now, I know the bye week will fix that, but he shouldn't even be in the top 5, let alone be the NFL leader!

 

[CrashDavisSports]

You could easily just slide Whit into LG and Collins in at LT.

I do agree, while Dalton's decision making has not been great, he has not been helped out on the myriad of dropped passes, or the OL not being able to keep him clean.

While Dalton will get most of the blame (as he should as the QB) it has been a true offensive/Team failure the past few weeks.

Also, I will say...there is NO REASON that dalton should be throwing as many passes as he is. He currently leads the NFL with 383 attempts (or there abouts). Now, I know the bye week will fix that, but he shouldn't even be in the top 5, let alone be the NFL leader!

Be careful now, you are going to have the PFF grunts pounding you with the offensive lines outstanding numbers and that game film lies because it is usually always Dalton's fault for the pressures, not the offensive line. I am can see it already, because it is predictable, so just preparing you!

 

[Servo]

I think Whit to Guard is good in theory, but I'm not sure how good he'd be there. I think he's like 6'7" and not that I've ever played offensive line but OG seems to be all about leverage. I think what made him a good LT is that he's a very good athlete...but with his knees and age he is definitely regressing. And Kyle Cook is just terrible.

 

[flamingrey]

Be careful now, you are going to have the PFF grunts pounding you with the offensive lines outstanding numbers and that game film lies because it is usually always Dalton's fault for the pressures, not the offensive line. I am can see it already, because it is predictable, so just preparing you!

The game film doesn't lie. Dalton has been pressured more in the last 2 weeks than he has most of the season. There is no doubt about that. But that pressure that he has seen the last 2 weeks STILL pales in comparison to the pressure the vast majority of QB's see week in and week out. That's what the game film will show you. It doesn't lie.

 

[bengaldoug]

Be careful now, you are going to have the PFF grunts pounding you with the offensive lines outstanding numbers and that game film lies because it is usually always Dalton's fault for the pressures, not the offensive line. I am can see it already, because it is predictable, so just preparing you!

Actually, as a "PFF grunt" I must now inform you of the recent decline in performance of the offensive line. The protection has not been good the last couple of weeks, though they still rank second as a unit in pressure allowed. A number of teams have closed the gap in the last couple of weeks. I don't understand why you don't respect these numbers a little more. They are the best measure we can get of player performance at this time. Most notably our tackles are getting beat more often now, both of them, and our RG Kevin Zeitler is suffering a steady downward trend in his performance over the last four games or so. Like I said they still rank second to Denver in pass protection but even though they have closed some ground on Denver, who is also struggling on the line recently, a few teams are closing in on both of us. The really disturbing trend is the drop in quality of run blocking, down to 21st of 32. The run block rating is -20.8, and while a large part of the problem can be blamed on Gresham's -12.6 and Eifert's -6.4, only Whit (+5.7) and Zeitler (+3.3) have positive ratings now in that category.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Actually, as a "PFF grunt" I must now inform you of the recent decline in performance of the offensive line. The protection has not been good the last couple of weeks, though they still rank second as a unit in pressure allowed. A number of teams have closed the gap in the last couple of weeks. I don't understand why you don't respect these numbers a little more. They are the best measure we can get of player performance at this time. Most notably our tackles are getting beat more often now, both of them, and our RG Kevin Zeitler is suffering a steady downward trend in his performance over the last four games or so. Like I said they still rank second to Denver in pass protection but even though they have closed some ground on Denver, who is also struggling on the line recently, a few teams are closing in on both of us. The really disturbing trend is the drop in quality of run blocking, down to 21st of 32. The run block rating is -20.8, and while a large part of the problem can be blamed on Gresham's -12.6 and Eifert's -6.4, only Whit (+5.7) and Zeitler (+3.3) have positive ratings now in that category.

Does this decline take into consideration the amount of extra pressure, or blitzes, faced? It seems that, starting with the Dolphins, and continuing with the Ravens, that defense are bringing a bit more pressure. Maybe not a ton more, but it seems they are starting to bring the extra guy just a bit more knowing that Dalton is easily rattled...and the OL has not adapted well to the pressure, either.

of course...maybe I am imagining this...does PFF track anything like this?

 

[bengaldoug]

Does this decline take into consideration the amount of extra pressure, or blitzes, faced? It seems that, starting with the Dolphins, and continuing with the Ravens, that defense are bringing a bit more pressure. Maybe not a ton more, but it seems they are starting to bring the extra guy just a bit more knowing that Dalton is easily rattled...and the OL has not adapted well to the pressure, either.

of course...maybe I am imagining this...does PFF track anything like this?

The way I understand it (and I am not sure of all of this) a lineman is only blamed when the guy he is supposed to block pressures the quarterback. Blitzers in many cases are supposed to be picked up by the backs, and both BJGE and Gio have solid pass block ratings which would indicate they are pretty good at picking up those blitzes. Sometimes more pressure is brought than can be accounted for and in those cases it is on the quarterback to handle it smartly. If you look at total pressures the quarterback has faced, the number will be higher than the number blamed totally on the linemen. It's these free rushers that Dalton has often struggled with, and in some cases he can be blamed for the pressures. 16 of the 26 sacks Dalton has suffered have been blamed on the linemen. Of the other 10, 2 have been blamed on Dalton, which leaves 8 unblamed, which I guess some could be accounted for as coverage sacks, others on pressure above and beyond what the linemen and backs could possibly block.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The way I understand it (and I am not sure of all of this) a lineman is only blamed when the guy he is supposed to block pressures the quarterback. Blitzers in many cases are supposed to be picked up by the backs, and both BJGE and Gio have solid pass block ratings which would indicate they are pretty good at picking up those blitzes. Sometimes more pressure is brought than can be accounted for and in those cases it is on the quarterback to handle it smartly. If you look at total pressures the quarterback has faced, the number will be higher than the number blamed totally on the linemen. It's these free rushers that Dalton has often struggled with, and in some cases he can be blamed for the pressures. 16 of the 26 sacks Dalton has suffered have been blamed on the linemen. Of the other 10, 2 have been blamed on Dalton, which leaves 8 unblamed, which I guess some could be accounted for as coverage sacks, others on pressure above and beyond what the linemen and backs could possibly block.

That makes sense, and this is what I was kind of eluding to. It seems that, on more than one occasion, the defense has "surprised" the offense by bringing more blitzers than the play calls for blockers. So, if you release both your TE's and your RB, and the defense overloads by bringing 6 guys...someone is unaccounted for.

Of course, when an OL is playing poorly, it always seems to have less blockers than needed, and of course, it goes the otherway, too.