D. Murray out for Wild Game

[filosofy29]

Should be a good game, the Wild are playing a lot better than they were last time they faced y'all, especially the 2nd line.

yeah, Minny has been unbelievable this year. They've had some stinkers for sure, but that coach has them believing "never give up". They've had some great come from behind wins and wins where they were outplayed for most of the game. It must be a fun ride for you and the rest of hockey crazy Minnesota. Good for the Wild.

 

[guitarmy21b]

yeah, Minny has been unbelievable this year. They've had some stinkers for sure, but that coach has them believing "never give up". They've had some great come from behind wins and wins where they were outplayed for most of the game. It must be a fun ride for you and the rest of hockey crazy Minnesota. Good for the Wild.

Yeah it's been fun. Most years if they're down by 2 in the 1st, you might as well change the channel. Sure do miss Burnsy though! We love Gooch and Heatley but hope our first line will pick up the productivity. They're not as fast as Cullen/Butch/ Wellman, that's why the 2nd line has been more fun to watch. We'll be better once Latandresse comes back too.

 

[Slimpikins]

I'd like to see McLellan try the Braun-Demers pairing. The biggest issue with the defensemen hasn't been their defense. It's been their inability to move the puck which is making the team very susceptible to turnovers. Teams have been able to zone in on Boyle and Demers/Braun and make them completely ineffective because neither White or Murray poses the ability to feed the transition. By doing this teams are either forcing turnovers or easily pinning the forwards in the neutral zone. This is the reason Demers and Braun have looked so much better along side Vandermeer as opposed to White. Vandermeer isn't a black hole in transition and his presence on the ice doesn't allow teams to cheat towards one dman as much.

This year Burns has been the only one that has excelled in moving the puck and allowing the fowards to play with speed. Burns ability to move the puck has also allowed Vlasic a ton more time and space and as a result his puck moving has greatly improved.

I'd like to see McLellan go with a D group that looks like:

Burns - Vlasic
Boyle - Vandermeer
Demers - Braun

I like those pairings. My only worry is the inexperience on the 3rd pair. I'm not sure two young guys prone to mental mistakes are an ideal match. Although in all fairness every Sharks Dman has been prone to mental mistakes so far this year.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Well considering Min is in first place in the NHL, id say Seto & Heatley have worked out very well for them. And I still say SJ would be better off with Seto/Heatley/White then with Havlett/Burns.

Havlat has done more for Couture and Clowe than Heatley ever did. Don't let McLellans screw up of seperating that line blind you to how effective he's been. The Burns-Vlasic pairing is the only pairing who is providing any offensive support at even strength and you can give almost 100% credit to Burns for that. Heatley and Seto are good players but the Sharks would be absolutely fucked with them instead of Burns and Havlat. Their even strength scoring would be non-existant.

When Burns was first aquired I didn't consider him much of an upgrade over Ian White but I was way off. Burns ability to move the puck is light years ahead of White and the defense he's been providing since the begining of November has also been head and shoulders above White.

 

[Slimpikins]

This is the Sharks board, you are not allowed to be positive about the Sharks here. Take that crap to the general board.

 

[23sharks]

Havlat has done more for Couture and Clowe than Heatley ever did. Don't let McLellans screw up of seperating that line blind you to how effective he's been. The Burns-Vlasic pairing is the only pairing who is providing any offensive support at even strength and you can give almost 100% credit to Burns for that. Heatley and Seto are good players but the Sharks would be absolutely fucked with them instead of Burns and Havlat. Their even strength scoring would be non-existant.

When Burns was first aquired I didn't consider him much of an upgrade over Ian White but I was way off. Burns ability to move the puck is light years ahead of White and the defense he's been providing since the begining of November has also been head and shoulders above White.

Cmon, it's a waste of time telling him all this. I've tried to do the same. Oh well, everyone has their own opinion.
Havlat is definitely a better all around player than Heatley, at a better cap hit.
I like Seto, but he was the forward they were going to trade if they could get a D-man in return. I'd heard that right after the season was over.
Let's see how this plays out as the season goes on....

 

[Likewall32]

It's Seto/Heatley/Coyle/1st for Havlat/Burns. White is not a factor, as much as some would like to assume him to be.

White is definately a factor, by adding Burns - the be all end all next Bobby Orr - SJ didnt need White. Signing White, SJ didnt need burns. Its definately a bug part of the offseason equasion, as much as some would like to assume its not.

BTW putting It's Seto/Heatley/Coyle/1st for Havlat/Burns, just makes it look soooooo much worse.

 

[Likewall32]

I don't remember too many Heater Haters in his first year in SJ when he produced closer to what he was paid.

And we'll see at the end of the year who got the better end of things for their teams. Two weeks ago SJ had more points than MIN with 4 games in hand. MIN gets hot and the gum flappers appear.

End of the year pt totals dont show who got the better end of the things. SJ has a way more talented overall team and should finish better. Min is a blue collar work horse team that is playing above & beyond the level they should be. You yourself are quite the gum flapper, and should put that flapping to use on my nutsac tho.
I fully expect SJ to finish better then Min, that doesnt mean they got the better end of the deal by any means. The team has gone to the WCF 2x in a row, meaning if they get to the SFC & win the cup the trade would have improved them. The way Mins season has gone, the trade has already worked out well in their favor. If you cant see that, your just starting an argument to start one.

 

[Likewall32]

Heatley and Seto are good players but the Sharks would be absolutely fucked with them instead of Burns and Havlat. Their even strength scoring would be non-existant.
.

I dont see how you can even say they would be fucked with them with a streight face consideing theyve gone to the WCF 2x in a row with them. That makes no sence

 

[Likewall32]

We all agree that Hav for Heat is a great move for the cap space, but I have yet to see that cap space used for anything. That will be an eventual deciding factor of this trade IMO.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I dont see how you can even say they would be fucked with them with a streight face consideing theyve gone to the WCF 2x in a row with them. That makes no sence

Because the defense that was the downfall of the team last year would be even worse. Especially with Demers, Boyle, Murray and White playing so increadibly bad.

 

[filosofy29]

End of the year pt totals dont show who got the better end of the things. SJ has a way more talented overall team and should finish better. Min is a blue collar work horse team that is playing above & beyond the level they should be. You yourself are quite the gum flapper, and should put that flapping to use on my nutsac tho.
I fully expect SJ to finish better then Min, that doesnt mean they got the better end of the deal by any means. The team has gone to the WCF 2x in a row, meaning if they get to the SFC & win the cup the trade would have improved them. The way Mins season has gone, the trade has already worked out well in their favor. If you cant see that, your just starting an argument to start one.

lol, Minnesota has a lot of young players who have been improving for awhile now. You can't tell by 1/3rd of the season of improved play who has won. Besides, the coach has seemed to instill a "never say die" attitude that is more attributable to their success (along with their Goaltending) than anything Seto or Heatley have done. If you can't see that, you're just starting an argument to start one. Bottom line is, this trade won't be able to be judged fairly for at least 3 years (unless one of the teams wins the cup before then).

 

[Likewall32]

Because the defense that was the downfall of the team last year would be even worse. Especially with Demers, Boyle, Murray and White playing so increadibly bad.

Was the D the downfall, or was it the insanely amount of stupid penalities, blown leads & at times shoddy goaltending. The whole team shit the bed at times during the Vanc series.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

lol, Minnesota has a lot of young players who have been improving for awhile now. You can't tell by 1/3rd of the season of improved play who has won. Besides, the coach has seemed to instill a "never say die" attitude that is more attributable to their success (along with their Goaltending) than anything Seto or Heatley have done. If you can't see that, you're just starting an argument to start one. Bottom line is, this trade won't be able to be judged fairly for at least 3 years (unless one of the teams wins the cup before then).

While I agree that the coaching and system as well as goaltending are the main reasons the Wild are so much improved I think you underestimate the contributions of Seto and Heatley to that team. They've fit will into the system and provided enough scoring to make the team sucessful which is what the were brought in for.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Was the D the downfall, or was it the insanely amount of stupid penalities, blown leads & at times shoddy goaltending. The whole team shit the bed at times during the Vanc series.

A lot of the bad penalties and blown leads were due to the defense being unable to make strong plays and move the puck. They made countless turnovers and blew countless coverages trying to scramble to get back into a defensive posture. The dmen weren't the only guilty party to the PO failure but were far and away the biggest cause IMO.

 

[filosofy29]

While I agree that the coaching and system as well as goaltending are the main reasons the Wild are so much improved I think you underestimate the contributions of Seto and Heatley to that team. They've fit will into the system and provided enough scoring to make the team sucessful which is what the were brought in for.

Please list to me the ways that Heatley has helped make that team the #1 team in the conference. I'd LOVE to hear it. What intangibles does he bring? Does he play the body? Does he play good defense?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that they've helped balance out the scoring, but if you're looking for a $7.5mil player to help balance out the scoring and "fit in", give me a break

At least Seto plays the body well, has great speed and has a good forecheck.

 

[Likewall32]

A lot of the bad penalties and blown leads were due to the defense being unable to make strong plays and move the puck. They made countless turnovers and blew countless coverages trying to scramble to get back into a defensive posture. The dmen weren't the only guilty party to the PO failure but were far and away the biggest cause IMO.

And Burns improves that considering he's a turnover machine? White wasnt the only one fawkin up in the playoffs on the D unit, and Burns fawks up a lot on turnovers & coverage himself. So I still dont understand your arguement that with Seto/Heatley this year the team would be fucked cause of the D struggles of the team vs vancouver. Swaping Burns for White doesnt exactly fix that. And we all agree that Huskins & Wallin sucked butthole, but that wasnt the topic. It was how the team would be fucked by keeping heatley, seto & white vrs adding havlet & burns.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Please list to me the ways that Heatley has helped make that team the #1 team in the conference. I'd LOVE to hear it. What intangibles does he bring? Does he play the body? Does he play good defense?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that they've helped balance out the scoring, but if you're looking for a $7.5mil player to help balance out the scoring and "fit in", give me a break

At least Seto plays the body well, has great speed and has a good forecheck.

You may not agree with it but that is exactly what Fletcher said he wanted from Heatley. He wanted a player who was better at scoring goals than Havlat. Fletcher knew exactly what he was taking on.

As Sharks fans did we expect more from Heatley? Yes. Do Wild fans expect more from Heatley? Probably, but Fletcher has got exactly what he said he wanted from him.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

And Burns improves that considering he's a turnover machine? White wasnt the only one fawkin up in the playoffs on the D unit, and Burns fawks up a lot on turnovers & coverage himself. So I still dont understand your arguement that with Seto/Heatley this year the team would be fucked cause of the D struggles of the team vs vancouver. Swaping Burns for White doesnt exactly fix that. And we all agree that Huskins & Wallin sucked butthole, but that wasnt the topic. It was how the team would be fucked by keeping heatley, seto & white vrs adding havlet & burns.

That's where we disagree. Burns has been a far superior addition to the blueline for the Sharks than White was/would have been. Since the begining of November Burns has played a solid defensive game. In that time the turnovers have not been a huge issue. When you're expected to be as big a part of the puck posession game as Burns turnovers are going to happen, its inevitable.

It's pretty simple. Having Havlat, who's made Clowe and Couture much better players, and Burns who has elivated Vlasic's game and been the only dman who's been able to feed the forwards consistantly to start the transition is better than two good scoring forwards who are rendered close to useless because none of the dmen can move the puck.

Would I have liked to aquire Burns without moving Seto? Hell yes, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that Burns has been a huge positive and a step in the right direction for the Sharks.

 

[Likewall32]

That's where we disagree. Burns has been a far superior addition to the blueline for the Sharks than White was/would have been. Since the begining of November Burns has played a solid defensive game. In that time the turnovers have not been a huge issue. When you're expected to be as big a part of the puck posession game as Burns turnovers are going to happen, its inevitable.

It's pretty simple. Having Havlat, who's made Clowe and Couture much better players, and Burns who has elivated Vlasic's game and been the only dman who's been able to feed the forwards consistantly to start the transition is better than two good scoring forwards who are rendered close to useless because none of the dmen can move the puck.

Would I have liked to aquire Burns without moving Seto? Hell yes, but that doesn't blind me to the fact that Burns has been a huge positive and a step in the right direction for the Sharks.

I just dont see it, as much as I want, I just dont. White & Burns, both semi weak in there own end, both puck moving Dmen. Burns being the better of the 2. I get that part. Now, Burns (the better puck mover - but not by this huge margin) moving the puck up an offence of mar, thorn, hav, clowe, cout, pavs, hanz & the baggage, is it really that much the leaps & bounds you make it seem over White, the slightly worse at moving the puck, up to mar, thorn, heat, seto, clowe, cout, hanz & the baggage? I dont think so at all honestly. You add a guy that move it better (and I still think he's worse in his own end then white) to a forward group that is weaker by a big margin vrs having the guy that isnt that much worse at moving it up to a forward group that significatly better. I just feel keeping seto, heatley & white wouldve been better. Unless the sharks do something with that extra cap space from dumping heatley
As for Vlasics improvements. to say its all do 2 burns is kind of like ummm? You pair a guy that was good to begin with with a guy that blows ass in his own zone, well he doesnt really have a choice but to cover the other guys ass. I dont think adding Burns contributed to Vlasics improvement, it was always there. Just like I strongly disagree that adding Havlet has improved couture & clowe. Couture & clowe have never been an issue on this team IMO, and what they do & how they develope wouldve gone the same no matter who they were with this season, and I really dont see this super improvement you speak of. I see clowe & couture playing there normal game.

Oh, BTW the team with Heatley & Seto won tonight, but the win probably had nothing to do with those 2 players.