Crabtree

[vvoland]

I've read through this thread and it is clear that Imac & Crimsoncrew have no clue what they are talking about - anyone defending Ginn is on the right track!

MW, i generally enjoy your posts but the last two threads you participated in has left me scratching my head as to your justification, or the lack thereof. the sanchez v smith argument i'll leave for the other thread, but i see the same pattern in this ginn debate. you make a pronouncement that seems controversial, at best, and farfetched, at worst, and then you make no effort to back it up with facts, observations, or analysis. simply saying poster X has no idea what he's talking about and anyone who agrees with me is right does not an argument make. so before i get lumped in w/ imac or crimson [also posters whose debates i often enjoy] let me ask you, what gives you the confidence to speak so highly of ted ginn?

here's my take on him. i was very optimistic when he joined the niners. i wanted to give him every opportunity to develop his WR game but he's been a great disappointment in that aspect. has he lived up to your expectations? i have huge problems with ginn on a number of levels. i don't think he has the toughness to make plays in the middle of the field. that pretty much eliminates 90% of his route tree. he runs very poor routes and has terrible vision on the ball. he has trouble following the ball in the air and taking the proper angle so his ability as a deep threat is also dubious. i've yet to see teams bracket him or rotate a safety to his side of the field, and for good reason. he had one play that spoke of his potential [the catch against baltimore] and despite it being called back, its still a play he made. but one play in 14 games is far too little. he has not justified his presence on the field far more often than not and i've named a number of problems without yet mentioning his hands [which are, far and away, his biggest issue].

with all of our injuries, he's seen plenty of the field this year. i'm assuming even more snaps in practice, yet he's targeted very rarely and when he is, i find myself holding my breath and thinking 'don't pop the ball up and cause a pick.' i want no part of ted ginn as a starting WR and feel one of our greatest needs this offseason is a true no 1 threat. i love crabtree as a no 2 guy [especially if he participates in TC next year]. i think morgan and williams are very good slot/no3 options. i wouldn't mind seeing ginn on occasion as the no 4, stretch the field guy but we have no receiver i'd call a no 1 guy. do you agree? do you think we need to address the WR position via draft or FA? or, on the other hand, do you think ginn can deliver what desean jackson has in the past for philly? do you think bowe, VJ, stevie johnson, et al would take this offense to another level or can ginn provide similar production next year? if you feel he's close to being a no 1 guy, can you tell me why? i'd love to believe that but i need a fair bit more than 'because i said so.'

i hope you take this response in stride. i mean no disrespect and often find myself agreeing with your posts. they, however, generally have a lot more substance that i've seen in this [or the sanchez v smith] debate. looking forward to it returning..

 

[Flyingiguana]

MW, i generally enjoy your posts but the last two threads you participated in has left me scratching my head as to your justification, or the lack thereof. the sanchez v smith argument i'll leave for the other thread, but i see the same pattern in this ginn debate. you make a pronouncement that seems controversial, at best, and farfetched, at worst, and then you make no effort to back it up with facts, observations, or analysis. simply saying poster X has no idea what he's talking about and anyone who agrees with me is right does not an argument make. so before i get lumped in w/ imac or crimson [also posters whose debates i often enjoy] let me ask you, what gives you the confidence to speak so highly of ted ginn?

here's my take on him. i was very optimistic when he joined the niners. i wanted to give him every opportunity to develop his WR game but he's been a great disappointment in that aspect. has he lived up to your expectations? i have huge problems with ginn on a number of levels. i don't think he has the toughness to make plays in the middle of the field. that pretty much eliminates 90% of his route tree. he runs very poor routes and has terrible vision on the ball. he has trouble following the ball in the air and taking the proper angle so his ability as a deep threat is also dubious. i've yet to see teams bracket him or rotate a safety to his side of the field, and for good reason. he had one play that spoke of his potential [the catch against baltimore] and despite it being called back, its still a play he made. but one play in 14 games is far too little. he has not justified his presence on the field far more often than not and i've named a number of problems without yet mentioning his hands [which are, far and away, his biggest issue].

with all of our injuries, he's seen plenty of the field this year. i'm assuming even more snaps in practice, yet he's targeted very rarely and when he is, i find myself holding my breath and thinking 'don't pop the ball up and cause a pick.' i want no part of ted ginn as a starting WR and feel one of our greatest needs this offseason is a true no 1 threat. i love crabtree as a no 2 guy [especially if he participates in TC next year]. i think morgan and williams are very good slot/no3 options. i wouldn't mind seeing ginn on occasion as the no 4, stretch the field guy but we have no receiver i'd call a no 1 guy. do you agree? do you think we need to address the WR position via draft or FA? or, on the other hand, do you think ginn can deliver what desean jackson has in the past for philly? do you think bowe, VJ, stevie johnson, et al would take this offense to another level or can ginn provide similar production next year? if you feel he's close to being a no 1 guy, can you tell me why? i'd love to believe that but i need a fair bit more than 'because i said so.'

i hope you take this response in stride. i mean no disrespect and often find myself agreeing with your posts. they, however, generally have a lot more substance that i've seen in this [or the sanchez v smith] debate. looking forward to it returning..

i think there musta been something extra in mw's egg nog

 

[MW49ers5]

I think Ginn has made a great contribution in the return game. I think Williams could do a fine job replacing him, but we'd probably lose something. I also think Ginn has added something with the end-arounds. He's even added something in the receiving game, just not very much for a guy who has been our second or third receiver in almost every game this season given all the injuries.

MW's claim that a lack of concentration is the only thing preventing him from being our #1 receiver is preposterous for two reasons.

First, that argument overlooks other major flaws in his game, such as (and if you've been reading this thread, it's about the fifth time I've listed these, so I apologize; some people require a lot of repetition) his poor hands even when concentrating, his poor route running, his lack of quickness in the short area, his lack of strength, his lack of awareness, and his propensity to go out of bounds instead of trying to cut back in.

Second, the argument implies that improving his concentration is a relatively simple task that can be easily accomplished. Ginn has been in the league for five years. If it's that easy to flip the switch and improve his pass-catching, why hasn't he done it?

If you think that Ginn is close to being a #1 receiver, I disagree. If you think that he's a tolerable third receiver and a pretty good fourth receiver who brings a lot to the return game and an element of diversity with his ability on reverses, then we're pretty close to one another. And if he's willing to be paid like that guy, I have no problem bringing him back so long as we address at least one of the WR spots ahead of him in the offseason.

Hey Liar - You are catching on - a little

Now pay attention - First Imac is an idiot and following his lead will only make you look more stupid than you already are unless of course you are Imac then it's a close race between you and, well, you.

Second, my arguments rarely, if ever, overlook anything - you should know this by now.

Therefore

1) Ginn has as much or more athleticism as any of our WR's
2) Ginn runs some of the best routes on our WR squad - Period!
3) Ginn has very good hands - please, wave your "I'm Stupid" flag on this.
4) Ginn use to run track in HS and is the fastest from a dead start than ANY of our WR (Here let me wave your I'm stupid flag for you)
5) Ginn has excellent, perhaps even the best awareness of any of our other WR's
6) Ginn has what I would describe as a very low propensity to go out of bounds - In fact it is his propensity that aids in his fatal flaw
7) Ginn has an excellent range, better than Crabtree in the low zone.
8) Ginn has as much toughness as any of our WR's and is just as likely to go over the middle or up the ladder.


Second

When I said "if he could improve his concentration..." I knew precisely what I was talking about which is why I called you a liar for stating that I implied he was "close" to being a #1 - get it now?

Finally,

I think its fine that you want and need Imac to like you and that you base your whole credibility on this board on said relationship but you better be aware that he doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about most of the time - He is, well, just like you.

Imac and you do not watch the games both you just run over to a stat sheet - then read a few articles on the internet and you both think you know the score - the real score and you don't - period.

Hell, Crimson you were busted once over on ESPN for copy/pasting Gwen Knapps et al., articles (or parts thereof) and trying to pass them off as your "My thoughts of the game" only to later admit that you didn't even watch the fucking game!! Both you & Imac are idiots.

So, lets put what I believe are just more of your lies to the test shall we. I have watched and charted each of Ginn's 33 targets (and I like him even more now - thank you!) Please give me a 20 or more examples of the following claims that you are making - which of his 33 targets exemplify:

his poor hands even when concentrating
his poor route running (Didn't you admit just a few weeks ago that you didn't know much about route running at all? So did you suddenly realize your incompetence in analying routes and take a course? Or, are you just repeating what Imac is saying because you think he know's what he is talking about? Or, are you just telling more lies because the truth is you STILL don't know SHIT about route running) I digress 20 or more examples please

his lack of quickness in the short area
his lack of strength
his lack of awareness
his propensity to go out of bounds instead of trying to cut back in.

Now there is one catch Ginn made where he clearly thought the defender was closer than he was and he stepped oob insted of turning up-field. So you can have one if you even know which game he did that in.

Finally, you like to accuse me of not supporting my claims, which is false, but I digress, so lets see how the big Crimsoncrew supports claims made on the internet.

Again, I have all 33 targets charted please give me 20 or more of those targets that substantiate your bullshit claims about Ginn. And yes, I'll want details.

 

[Flyingiguana]

ginn never had good hands. concentration is part of having good hands. he's all about stretching the d with his speed. ginn doesn't have very good change of direction or acceleration. his route running is poor just like everyone we have at wr. ginn is basically a return specialist/4th or 5th on the depth charts wr.

ginn and williams bring different skill sets as a #2 for us going into the playoffs.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

my arguments rarely, if ever, overlook anything - you should know this by now.

See, this is a textbook case of you thinking you're smarter than you are again.

Therefore

1) Ginn has as much or more athleticism as any of our WR's
2) Ginn runs some of the best routes on our WR squad - Period!
3) Ginn has very good hands - please, wave your "I'm Stupid" flag on this.
4) Ginn use to run track in HS and is the fastest from a dead start than ANY of our WR (Here let me wave your I'm stupid flag for you)
5) Ginn has excellent, perhaps even the best awareness of any of our other WR's
6) Ginn has what I would describe as a very low propensity to go out of bounds - In fact it is his propensity that aids in his fatal flaw
7) Ginn has an excellent range, better than Crabtree in the low zone.
8) Ginn has as much toughness as any of our WR's and is just as likely to go over the middle or up the ladder.

Do you really believe that Ginn has very good hands, excellent awareness, and as much toughness as any of our WRs, and is likely to go over the middle? Are you just hoping that if a lie is big enough no one will call you on it? These claims are ridiculous.

I'll focus just on Ginn's "very good hands." There was, of course, the INT that went through his hands, off his face, and into the defender's hands. There was the fade in the endzone a couple weeks ago that was in his hands, then through them, then on the ground. There was the fourth-down ball against the Ravens that went right through his hands. Early in the year he dropped at least two balls that were in his hands. Those are off the top of my head. If I get a chance to review film I will, though clips of dropped balls are hard to come by.

Out of curiosity, since you have reviewed the film, how many of Ginn's 19 receptions came in between the hashes within 10 yards of the LOS?

Second

When I said "if he could improve his concentration..." I knew precisely what I was talking about which is why I called you a liar for stating that I implied he was "close" to being a #1 - get it now?

Lie: "To make an untrue statement with intent to deceive." You seem to struggle with this one. For it to be a lie, I have to know it's untrue and intend to deceive. I have no idea how hard or easy you think it is for Ginn to improve his concentration. Given the context of this conversation and past conversations, it certainly seemed that you believe Ginn is or could be our #1 receiver. If you think it will be extremely difficult for him to do so, then he's not likely to be hands-down our #1 receiver anytime soon and this entire discussion is moot.

Finally,

I think its fine that you want and need Imac to like you and that you base your whole credibility on this board on said relationship but you better be aware that he doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about most of the time - He is, well, just like you.

Imac and you do not watch the games both you just run over to a stat sheet - then read a few articles on the internet and you both think you know the score - the real score and you don't - period.

See, this is you attacking individuals with baseless claim. THIS is what a lie looks like. It is absolutely clear that Imac and I regularly watch the Niners games. I have missed approximately two and a half games in the last four years. I'm confident that virtually every poster on this board would back up that claim. Saying otherwise is a transparent and awkward attempt to discredit me, and Imac, for no reason whatsoever.

Hell, Crimson you were busted once over on ESPN for copy/pasting Gwen Knapps et al., articles (or parts thereof) and trying to pass them off as your "My thoughts of the game" only to later admit that you didn't even watch the fucking game!! Both you & Imac are idiots.

I can't ever recall posting a "My Thoughts on the Game" thread after a game that I did not watch, at least one in which I attempted to analyze specific things/plays that occurred in the game rather than considering what the game as a whole meant for the team, etc. And I have certainly never tried to pass off someone else's - especially Gwen Knapp's - thoughts off as my own. If you can present evidence to the contrary, I'll eat crow on it, though.

So, lets put what I believe are just more of your lies to the test shall we. I have watched and charted each of Ginn's 33 targets (and I like him even more now - thank you!) Please give me a 20 or more examples of the following claims that you are making - which of his 33 targets exemplify:

I don't have access to Ginn's 33 targets. If you can provide me with the film or a manner to obtain and review the film in a relatively brief period (i.e. not reviewing entire games looking for Ginn's one or two targets), I will happily review them and get back to you in detail.

 

[SY8goat]

All this over Ted Ginn Jr.



I looked over the thread and MW did say he would get rid of Crabs and Ginn to free up cap space for Kyle Williams. Though, I'd keep Crabtree and have Williams be his sidekick. In the return game, I'm confident in Brad Seely getting the same production out of Williams. IMO, Ginn is expendable because of Williams and Seely.

 

[Flyingiguana]

All this over Ted Ginn Jr.



I looked over the thread and MW did say he would get rid of Crabs and Ginn to free up cap space for Kyle Williams. Though, I'd keep Crabtree and have Williams be his sidekick. In the return game, I'm confident in Brad Seely getting the same production out of Williams. IMO, Ginn is expendable because of Williams and Seely.

free cap for kyle williams? what? the guy is gonna make the min lol

 

[SY8goat]

free cap for kyle williams? what? the guy is gonna make the min lol

Yes he is.So it applies to the year 2013.

K. Williams
2012: $490,000
2013: $575,000
2014: Free Agent

Here is Ginn's 1 year deal:

2011: $1 million In addition to his $1 million base salary, Ginn is eligible for $1.2 million in incentives based on punt return average, receptions, and playing time.

2012: Free Agent.

 

[MW49ers5]

ginn never had good hands. concentration is part of having good hands. he's all about stretching the d with his speed. ginn doesn't have very good change of direction or acceleration. his route running is poor just like everyone we have at wr. ginn is basically a return specialist/4th or 5th on the depth charts wr.

ginn and williams bring different skill sets as a #2 for us going into the playoffs.

Iguana, you are just repeating with prejudice an old and boring reputation that barely applies; and, concentration is arguably not part of having good hands - part of catching passes yes.

Good hands or soft hands as they are sometimes referred is a technique a mechanical process of receiving the ball with your hands and bringing the ball into your body, not fighting the ball.

The opposite of soft or good hands is would be brick or stone hands. Does Ginn have hands of stone - fuck no! And that is all I'm saying, Ginn has good hands as does Morgan. Crabtree's have really improved this year but Davis' hands are still suspect - much more so than Ginn.

So why does Ginn drop passes - lack of concentration - it's mental not mechanical, his mechanics, while not perfect, are fine so stop saying he has bad hands when he doesn't.

What Ginn did or didn't do last year or even last month is of no concern to me if he is improving and with his work ethic he has improved, and I believe will continue to improve, which is one reason I want to keep him.

However, just as with Crabtree until he shakes the drops he will have to deal with old, outdated and often undeserved criticism. But lets at least try to get it accurate.

 

[MW49ers5]

All this over Ted Ginn Jr.



I looked over the thread and MW did say he would get rid of Crabs and Ginn to free up cap space for Kyle Williams. Though, I'd keep Crabtree and have Williams be his sidekick. In the return game, I'm confident in Brad Seely getting the same production out of Williams. IMO, Ginn is expendable because of Williams and Seely.

SY, just to be clear I wasn't making a recommendation just an observation. There was talk of getting rid of Ginn and letting Williams handle the RS role. So, my question was, if we do that why not let Williams be our Antonio Brown?

I am quite confident that Williams can be every bit as productive with the same numbe of targets as Crabtree and, if the speculation is correct about him being as productive as our RS then let him fill both roles, save the space and get a DP or two.

That's all.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Iguana, you are just repeating with prejudice an old and boring reputation that barely applies; and, concentration is arguably not part of having good hands - part of catching passes yes.

Good hands or soft hands as they are sometimes referred is a technique a mechanical process of receiving the ball with your hands and bringing the ball into your body, not fighting the ball.

The opposite of soft or good hands is would be brick or stone hands. Does Ginn have hands of stone - fuck no! And that is all I'm saying, Ginn has good hands as does Morgan. Crabtree's have really improved this year but Davis' hands are still suspect - much more so than Ginn.

So why does Ginn drop passes - lack of concentration - it's mental not mechanical, his mechanics, while not perfect, are fine so stop saying he has bad hands when he doesn't.

What Ginn did or didn't do last year or even last month is of no concern to me if he is improving and with his work ethic he has improved, and I believe will continue to improve, which is one reason I want to keep him.

However, just as with Crabtree until he shakes the drops he will have to deal with old, outdated and often undeserved criticism. But lets at least try to get it accurate.

I would say "good hands" go beyond simply catching with soft hands extended from the body. I would say that good hands also implies an ability to make tough catches. This is the ability that Crabtree has more than any of our other receivers, IMO. He has dropped more easy ones than I would like, and some hard ones, but he has far greater ability to make a tough catch in traffic, elevate for an overthrow, pluck a ball one-handed, etc., than any of our guys other than perhaps Williams (I don't think we have enough sample size on Williams to say with much certainty at this point). If you disagree with that definition, that's fine. Call it something else. But it's still an issue for Ginn IMO.

I can't recall seeing Ginn make many (any?) "tough" catches with the Niners. The long ball against Baltimore is probably the closest, but even that one wasn't really contested, he just had to adjust to the underthrow and cut back inside the defender. Of his 33 targets, how often has he made a catch that was, due to coverage or the accuracy of the throw, genuinely difficult?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Btw, could Ginn have hands that are too soft? As in, the ball just passes through them without stopping? That's been the problem on most of his dropped balls this year.

 

[MW49ers5]

my arguments rarely, if ever, overlook anything - you should know this by now.

See, this is a textbook case of you thinking you're smarter than you are again.

Crimson, your continued fascination with my intelligence serves only to confirm you have yet to discover any of your own - I want to encourage you to keep searching. In the mean time, I must ask you to please keep this obsession with my intelligence going as it is great for my ego and gives me a boner like you wouldn't believe!

I'll focus just on Ginn's "very good hands." There was, of course, the INT that went through his hands, off his face, and into the defender's hands. There was the fade in the endzone a couple weeks ago that was in his hands, then through them, then on the ground. There was the fourth-down ball against the Ravens that went right through his hands. Early in the year he dropped at least two balls that were in his hands. Those are off the top of my head. If I get a chance to review film I will, though clips of dropped balls are hard to come by.

Are you talking about Ginn or Crabtree here?? - Because, while the settings may be different the story is identical. And, for the record Crimson, this has NOTHING to do with dropped passes. So don't waste your time with that BS. We all know Ginn, Crabtree & Davis drop passes.

This is about your claim that Ginn has:

poor hands even when concentrating
poor route running (Which, btw here is your quote: [I]"I'll admit, assessing WR routes might be the weakest part of my football knowledge,…"[/I]).
lack of quickness in the short area
lack of strength
lack of awareness
propensity to go out of bounds instead of trying to cut back in.


Out of curiosity, since you have reviewed the film, how many of Ginn's 19 receptions came in between the hashes within 10 yards of the LOS?

Out of curiosity? Seriously!!! Don't give me no stinking curiosity! YOU are the one who has made 6 very succinct claims about Ted Ginn’s horrible qualities as a receiver. With claims as firm as those, I would think you know more about Ginn than I do.


When I said "if he could improve his concentration..." I knew precisely what I was talking about which is why I called you a liar for stating that I implied he was "close" to being a #1 - get it now?

Lie: "To make an untrue statement with intent to deceive." You seem to struggle with this one. For it to be a lie, I have to know it's untrue and intend to deceive. I have no idea how hard or easy you think it is for Ginn to improve his concentration. If you think it will be extremely difficult for him to do so, then he's not likely to be hands-down our #1 receiver anytime soon and this entire discussion is moot.

Oh, okay then, so you just want to go ahead add 'stupid' to your fine resume of personality disorders - Check. Perhaps next time you should not imbue your incompetence into mine or any one else's thoughts until you know what the hell you're talking about.


Given the context of this conversation and past conversations, it certainly seemed that you believe Ginn is or could be our #1 receiver.

Whoops! Wow, that didn't take long. You seem to be imbuing again. See, Crimson, since I have never once intimated that Ginn IS our #1 WR and you damn-well know this, any statement to the contrary is just a another lie - Let's see, you want to just go ahead and blame this one on the pain killers?


I don't have access to Ginn's 33 targets. If you can provide me with the film or a manner to obtain and review the film in a relatively brief period (i.e. not reviewing entire games looking for Ginn's one or two targets), I will happily review them and get back to you in detail.

You don't have access to Ginn's targets, hell, you don't even recall his targets, beyond his drops; and, you don't seem to remember those very clearly. I'm pretty sure that right about now I could make the case that you don't even know who the fuck Ted Ginn is.

Thus, in summary, you have made claims about things you know next to nothing about, and, you have done this with absolutely no way of substantiating a single one of them. Hell, you can't even take a shot hoping you'll get lucky and get one right! I have to admit, Crimson, that is some kind of stupid!

 

[MW49ers5]

I would say "good hands" go beyond simply catching with soft hands extended from the body. I would say that good hands also implies an ability to make tough catches.

There are different types of 'tough' catches. Some require a heightened sense of concentration, some require a heightened sense of awareness, some require heightened athleticism while some require a heightened sense of all the above.

When I think of great hands I think of Carter & Largent


This is the ability that Crabtree has more than any of our other receivers, IMO. He has dropped more easy ones than I would like, and some hard ones, but he has far greater ability to make a tough catch in traffic, elevate for an overthrow, pluck a ball one-handed, etc., than any of our guys other than perhaps Williams (I don't think we have enough sample size on Williams to say with much certainty at this point). If you disagree with that definition, that's fine. Call it something else. But it's still an issue for Ginn IMO.

Everything in the preceding paragraph is either outright or meaningless BS!

Crabtree is an utter douche-bag when it comes to traffic catches. He failed in Detroit, he failed twice vs. NYG, he failed in BAL, got schooled by Peterson in ARI and those are just what I can remember.

Has he made traffic catches, yes! But to say he has "far greater ability to make a tough catch in traffic" is just outright horseshit!

I've got Crabtree down for 1 one-handed catch vs. Chicago in '09, which wasn't even a catch because he caught it oob. What do you have besides that one?

Just so were clear - Who, besides yourself, would ding any receiver because he doesn't have a one-handed catch on his resume? Shear desperation, Crimson. Btw, Williams has attempted 1 one-handed catch (vs. BAL) and failed miserably - should we can his ass too?


I can't recall seeing Ginn make many (any?) "tough" catches with the Niners. The long ball against Baltimore is probably the closest, but even that one wasn't really contested, he just had to adjust to the underthrow and cut back inside the defender. Of his 33 targets, how often has he made a catch that was, due to coverage or the accuracy of the throw, genuinely difficult?

How many "tough" catches has Ginn made? Well, if he is as fucked up a WR as you are suggesting, then I would have to say they are all tough catches. Hell, according to you & Imac the poor kid probably needs help just to cash his paycheck.

Right now both Crabtree & Ginn are respectively catching ~76% & ~75% of all the catchable passes thrown to them. There, there is some information you can't misinterpret to terribly wrong.

 

[MW49ers5]

Btw, could Ginn have hands that are too soft? As in, the ball just passes through them without stopping? That's been the problem on most of his dropped balls this year.

When Ginn came to the 49ers there was a photo that circulated of Ginn at TC catching a pass. Those of us that viewed the photo all made a similar observation - The ball pass was craddled in his hands but his eyes were looking off somewhere else, presumably downfield and for obvious reasons.

Three of the four critical pass drops (ARI, BAL, DAL & NYG) were eyes off the ball. The 4th (ARI) was similar to Crabtree's drop vs. NYG

 

[MW49ers5]

Yes, you called me a liar. What you haven't done is defend your statement that Ginn would be our hands-down #1 receiver if he learned to concentrate. That is worming your way out of it.

I have provided the context from the prior Crabtree conversation ad nauseum. As said, your statement was a direct response to my statement that Crabtree was one of our top two WRs. If you weren't intending to say the others were as good or better, I have no idea what context you were drawing on. SO POINT IT OUT. Or, yet again, just worm your way out.

By the way, still waiting for you to prove me a liar. That will actually require you to link to something I said in the past that I knew was false when I said it.

Listen up, worm - The statement was 'my' statement, I know exactly what I said and precisely why I said it and so do you. But instead of being a man and owning your lie you continue to perpetuate it. Instead of offering the context behind the comments you continue repeating the comments.

Not only do you know what the context of the principal statement was, you also know what I said in the succedding discussion as well. Yet, instead of just admitting that 'being better than Crabtree' had nothing to do with the comment you tuck your tail and hide.

Real classy, Crimson.

 

[sayheykid1]

All of which are true.

He's a sprinter. The end.

He's a sprinter means that he is fast, nothing else and we all know that he is fast so posting that fact doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Please tell me how the following is true:
The 49ers can get a player that will average the second most yards per kickoff return and the 4th most average yards per punt return for the league minimum and that the Niners can upgrade from that quite easily


Ginn is a detriment to the team at any cost and Patrick Willis is no better than Bowman.

Wowzers

 

[sayheykid1]

Here's a fun tidbit: only five players have more punt returns than Ginn this year

lol

 

[sayheykid1]

He let's a lot of punts hit the ground.

But ultimately, as I mentioned in a previous thread, he gets what's blocked for him, but not much more. I don't think we lost a whole lot if we have an "average" RS back there.

You said the Niners could upgrade for the minimum.

 

[NinerSickness]

Ginn is a #6 WR in the NFL?

Since when did #4 WRs in the NFL have such a freeking high bar?

The #4 WR on a team who is much like the Niners, the Ravens, has 4 catches for 46 yards all season.

The #4 WR on the Lions has 22 rec for 179 yards; and tehy pass a heck of a lot more than the Niners.

The #4 receiver on the Steelers has 22 catches for 288 yards.

Ginn has averaged 409.4 yards per season over 5 years. He had 14 catches for 220 yards this year. Sounds like a #4 WR to me! He dropped a lot of balls. How many did he drop? How many did Crabby drop last year or this year? What's teh drop percentage comparison? If it's close does that mean the Niners should cut Crabby?