Crabtree

[Crimsoncrew]

Imac, you are losing your mind...Don't get so emotional - a #6 WR? what the fuck is that? Ginn is much better as both a WR and a RS than you think.

While I disagree with Imac, Ginn as a #6 is much closer to reality than Ginn as a #1.

 

[imac_21]

Imac, you are losing your mind...Don't get so emotional - a #6 WR? what the fuck is that? Ginn is much better as both a WR and a RS than you think.

No he's not. He has horrible hands, runs ugly routes, lacks concentration, has no short area quickness, has no size. . . .

He's fast. That's all he is.

A 6th WR is a guy that doesn't belong on the field. A 4th WR requires snaps at various points. If Ginn is on offense, you have a weakness on the field.

As a returner, he's not explosive. He doesn't accelerate quickly. He catches the ball, and if he has space, he accelerates and runs in a straight line. If someone is in his way, the return is over.

As a PR, he fair catches, or just simply doesn't catch, a lot of punts. Somehow, on one of the best defenses in the league, he only had 38 punt returns. He averaged less than 3 PR per game. He fair caught 18. Did we really only force an average of 4 punts per game?

His PR average is inflated by his lack of willingness to return "tough" punts.

I will not miss Ted Ginn at all if he is not a 49er next year. And some team will grossly overpay him.

But apparently he's an appointment with a good hypnotist away from being a good #1 WR.

But you don't think he's better than Crabtree, do you MW? You never said that. . .

 

[CalamityX11]

All of which are true.

He's a sprinter. The end.

Many of today's offensive players are primarily sprinters.....

 

[CalamityX11]

Get rid of Crabtree?

why?

 

[imac_21]

Many of today's offensive players are primarily sprinters.....

. . . that can catch. That's key.

 

[imac_21]

Get rid of Crabtree?

why?

Because as MW implied earlier in the year, we have 4-6 receivers (this includes TEs) who are better than Crabtree. Although whatever that number was when he said it, subtract one because I believe he included Braylon Edwards on the list.

I think Edwards is available though. Maybe we should cut Crabtree and sign him?

 

[CalamityX11]

. . . that can catch. That's key.

Ginn has had his drops but he also made his fair share of grabs.... he's our best deep threat whether we take advantage of it or not, he's our deep ball guy.

But i'm none of us want him above 4th option.... but to say 6th? that's a bit much no?

For me, not sayin we must design it for him, but if you're telling me, Ginn would be our 4/5 guy WR and used as a returner by nature, why not? No argument or disapproval for that.

 

[CalamityX11]

Because as MW implied earlier in the year, we have 4-6 receivers (this includes TEs) who are better than Crabtree. Although whatever that number was when he said it, subtract one because I believe he included Braylon Edwards on the list.

I think Edwards is available though. Maybe we should cut Crabtree and sign him?

lol....

 

[EaseUrStorm]

Here's a fun tidbit: only five players have more punt returns than Ginn this year

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Because as MW implied earlier in the year, we have 4-6 receivers (this includes TEs) who are better than Crabtree. Although whatever that number was when he said it, subtract one because I believe he included Braylon Edwards on the list.

I think Edwards is available though. Maybe we should cut Crabtree and sign him?

He didn't imply it. He stated it expressly.

 

[imac_21]

Ginn has had his drops but he also made his fair share of grabs.... he's our best deep threat whether we take advantage of it or not, he's our deep ball guy.

But i'm none of us want him above 4th option.... but to say 6th? that's a bit much no?

For me, not sayin we must design it for him, but if you're telling me, Ginn would be our 4/5 guy WR and used as a returner by nature, why not? No argument or disapproval for that.

He did not make his fair share of grabs. He made 19 grabs for 220 yards. He even started 3 games. He had 8 games without a catch. Walker and Swain were the only two non-RB that had a lower ypc.

He's our fastest runner. He's not a deep threat. There's a very distinct difference. Being able to run fast does not make a player a deep threat. Being able to catch balls down field does. Do you know what the difference between a 4.3 and a 4.5 40 yard dash is over 40 yards? In 4.3 seconds the guy with 4.5 speed has gone 38.2 yards. That's assuming they run in a straight line with no hand fighting and no jam at the LoS.

Ginn's inability to actually catch the ball (or even track it in the air in Arizona) makes him a horrible deep threat. He's not a threat at all as teams don't need to account for him down field. How often are teams rotating a safety over top of Ginn to not get burned deep? Never. That's not a deep threat.

6th is about right. Why do you want a WR on the field that can't catch, can't run routes and is small?

 

[imac_21]

Here's a fun tidbit: only five players have more punt returns than Ginn this year

That's roughly 15% of the league. There are 3 more within 2 PR of him. That's 9 of 32.

Anyone know where we can find a stat on how many punts a team forced?

I know MW doesn't because he doesn't believe in stats.

 

[imac_21]

He didn't imply it. He stated it expressly.

I didn't want to get in a 13 page spat with him about the semantics of his direct quote while he avoided addressing his comment, so I went with "implied" instead of "stated."

 

[Flyingiguana]

i know the difference between 4.3 and 4.5

i seen 4.3 run by me all the time

 

[EaseUrStorm]

That's roughly 15% of the league. There are 3 more within 2 PR of him. That's 9 of 32.

Anyone know where we can find a stat on how many punts a team forced?

I know MW doesn't because he doesn't believe in stats.

Yes, but its important to note Ginn only played 14 games this year and the others right behind him logged 16 games. So if you give him 5 returns (averaged 2.7 punt returns per game) for the games missed he's legitimately in top 15% (5/32).

I didn't notice him avoid kicks all year. He made more tough returns this year than last year. Also some teams chose to kick away from him to play field position against a weak offense.

Can't find forced punt stat

 

[imac_21]

Yes, but its important to note Ginn only played 14 games this year and the others right behind him logged 16 games. So if you give him 5 returns (averaged 2.7 punt returns per game) for the games missed he's legitimately in top 15% (5/32).

I didn't notice him avoid kicks all year. He made more tough returns this year than last year. Also some teams chose to kick away from him to play field position against a weak offense.

Can't find forced punt stat

He let's a lot of punts hit the ground.

But ultimately, as I mentioned in a previous thread, he gets what's blocked for him, but not much more. I don't think we lost a whole lot if we have an "average" RS back there.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I didn't want to get in a 13 page spat with him about the semantics of his direct quote while he avoided addressing his comment, so I went with "implied" instead of "stated."

Haha. Fair enough. I'll try not to let it take over this thread.

 

[MW49ers5]

I've read through this thread and it is clear that Imac & Crimsoncrew have no clue what they are talking about - anyone defending Ginn is on the right track!

 

[MW49ers5]

He let's a lot of punts hit the ground.

But ultimately, as I mentioned in a previous thread, he gets what's blocked for him, but not much more. I don't think we lost a whole lot if we have an "average" RS back there.

Quantify, "lots" because I'm not seeing "lots"

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I've read through this thread and it is clear that Imac & Crimsoncrew have no clue what they are talking about - anyone defending Ginn is on the right track!

So MW has decreed it, so it shall be! After all, he is the smartest poster on this board. In his own mind, at least.

Remind me again why you think Ginn is practically a number one receiver? The great hands? Good routes? Toughness? Leaping ability? Ability to take over a game and dominate? He's got so many tools it's hard for me to pick just one.

Oh, wait. That's right. You can't remind me because you haven't actually said anything about that yet. Like every other argument you make, you've fallen back on the old "because I said so" staple. Compelling.