Crabtree

[numone9er]

I see what you guys are saying but I don't think so. What about when a QB throws a perfect ball to a receiver and he drops it and a defender picks it off?? Or a hailmary when he is just tossing it up for grabs?? That stuff all counts against them.

The way I see it, he wasn't covered because it was a great play. No different than a guy getting open on a playaction or fleaflicker or something like that.

Well, i think that's something you go back and look at during and after the season. You look at plays like the one that went off Ginn's helmet right into the defenders hands and give Smith a pass on that play. You also go to the catch Crabtree had without anyone covering him. It counts in the stats, but are you going to give that player more credit for a play that is a given?

 

[MW49ers5]

Well, i think that's something you go back and look at during and after the season. You look at plays like the one that went off Ginn's helmet right into the defenders hands and give Smith a pass on that play. You also go to the catch Crabtree had without anyone covering him. It counts in the stats, but are you going to give that player more credit for a play that is a given?

I 100% agree and IMO, that is necessary to achieve an accurate "individual" statistical performance analysis. It is when you start doing comparative analyses that things get tricky and disagreements become fun & exciting.

 

[numone9er]

I 100% agree and IMO, that is necessary to achieve an accurate "individual" statistical performance analysis. It is when you start doing comparative analyses that things get tricky and disagreements become fun & exciting.

Hey, I will take it any day of the week, I'm just saying that play shouldn't merit the same praise as others. His first TD was nice, though. We're going to need him to be our go to WR in the playoffs.

 

[MW49ers5]

Hey, I will take it any day of the week, I'm just saying that play shouldn't merit the same praise as others. His first TD was nice, though. We're going to need him to be our go to WR in the playoffs.

Oh so true.

I know we'll have Ginn back by the 14th, but I'm not so sure about Williams. And, based on how well Swain has performed and Hastings did perform vs. StL, I'm beginning to think letting go of Edwards may not have been a great idea. Unless, part of Harbaugh's strategy with Hastings was to prevent our playoff opponent from having any film on him whatsoever.

 

[numone9er]

Oh so true.

I know we'll have Ginn back by the 14th, but I'm not so sure about Williams. And, based on how well Swain has performed and Hastings did perform vs. StL, I'm beginning to think letting go of Edwards may not have been a great idea. Unless, part of Harbaugh's strategy with Hastings was to prevent our playoff opponent from having any film on him whatsoever.

Yeah, I'd much rather have Kyle Williams and Michael Crabtree. I don't trust Ginn much at all. We are in dire need of some new WR talent this off season. In the mean ti me i hope it is enough.

 

[MW49ers5]

Yeah, I'd much rather have Kyle Williams and Michael Crabtree. I don't trust Ginn much at all. We are in dire need of some new WR talent this off season. In the mean time I hope it is enough.

I was a huge supporter of Kyle Williams from the end of exhibition and I still am; although, I would like to see him cool his attitude a little.

As for Ginn, I have zero worries about Ginn in all phases of his game; with, perhaps the exception of making the occasional critical catch. If Ginn could improve his concentration - he could be our #1 WR hands down.

(Referring back to our earlier conversation about individual analysis) If it were not for three glaring drops this year (NYG, BAL & ARI) we would be having a much different conversation about Ginn.

I am firmly on the side of bringing Ginn back next year as both a WR and Return Specialist. In addition to that, I am looking forward to what Bogan might bring as well.

That said, however, I would have no problem with and would even agree that if the opportunity to pick up an AJ Green or a Victor Cruz type WR became available then we should without a second thought.

 

[threelittleturds]

I was a huge supporter of Kyle Williams from the end of exhibition and I still am; although, I would like to see him cool his attitude a little.

As for Ginn, I have zero worries about Ginn in all phases of his game; with, perhaps the exception of making the occasional critical catch. If Ginn could improve his concentration - he could be our #1 WR hands down.

(Referring back to our earlier conversation about individual analysis) If it were not for three glaring drops this year (NYG, BAL & ARI) we would be having a much different conversation about Ginn.

I am firmly on the side of bringing Ginn back next year as both a WR and Return Specialist. In addition to that, I am looking forward to what Bogan might bring as well.

That said, however, I would have no problem with and would even agree that if the opportunity to pick up an AJ Green or a Victor Cruz type WR became available then we should without a second thought.

I like Ginn, but if I had to choose between letting him walk in order to get some extra money to send Rogers or Goldson's way, I'd let Ginn walk. Good for him, and bad for 49ers negotiations, he was a Pro Bowl alternate for being a return guy. Which means, the players and coaches felt he was one of the best in the NFC... and some of those coaches might want him on their team. Not trying to be a doomsayer, but I think his Pro Bowl alternate shows that he is a respected player, which will make him desired, and as much as I love him as a 49er, I don't think he brings enough to the passing game to get into a bidding war over him.

 

[CalamityX11]

Done.

sweet.....

be made the hero

or turn to a phony.....

 

[CalamityX11]

Bring Stevie Johnson home!! Well, that is if he wore out his welcome in Buffalo.

can't jump onboard with that yet... for some reason, i notice over the last few weeks, he's been a "me" player and a douche....

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I was a huge supporter of Kyle Williams from the end of exhibition and I still am; although, I would like to see him cool his attitude a little.

As for Ginn, I have zero worries about Ginn in all phases of his game; with, perhaps the exception of making the occasional critical catch. If Ginn could improve his concentration - he could be our #1 WR hands down.

(Referring back to our earlier conversation about individual analysis) If it were not for three glaring drops this year (NYG, BAL & ARI) we would be having a much different conversation about Ginn.

I am firmly on the side of bringing Ginn back next year as both a WR and Return Specialist. In addition to that, I am looking forward to what Bogan might bring as well.

That said, however, I would have no problem with and would even agree that if the opportunity to pick up an AJ Green or a Victor Cruz type WR became available then we should without a second thought.

Zero worries? Ginn runs mediocre routes, has poor concentration, and bad hands. You mention his concentration, but even when he watches the ball in he's as unreliable as they come. Forget making a tough grab on an off-target throw. He doesn't have the strength to go up and get the ball against coverage, and his quickness in the short area is only ok. The only area where he is even above average is his straight-line speed, which is admittedly elite, but is largely offset by his poor awareness and bad hands.

You've been saying all year that you really like Ginn. I can't help but wonder if we're watching the same player. Ginn has had a bigger impact running the ball than catching it this season. He isn't close to being a #1 receiver, and while his hands are probably the biggest problem - and it is his hands at least as much as his concentration - they are far from the only thing keeping him from being a #1 or even a #2 receiver. His return ability demands that we consider keeping him, though Williams had a nice game last week before the injury, but the passing offense would lose next to nothing by subtracting Ginn IMO.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

I like Ginn, but if I had to choose between letting him walk in order to get some extra money to send Rogers or Goldson's way, I'd let Ginn walk. Good for him, and bad for 49ers negotiations, he was a Pro Bowl alternate for being a return guy. Which means, the players and coaches felt he was one of the best in the NFC... and some of those coaches might want him on their team. Not trying to be a doomsayer, but I think his Pro Bowl alternate shows that he is a respected player, which will make him desired, and as much as I love him as a 49er, I don't think he brings enough to the passing game to get into a bidding war over him.

Idk about that for me. I keep thinking about what our return game was like before Ginn was brought it and it gives me nighmares. Ill agree though that there are always capable returners every draft so picking one of in the later rounds and seeing what hes got wouldnt hurt.

Williams passes Ginn easily in the WR department so rolling with Crab and Williams isnt too bad. Its also nice to have Ginn out there to even stretch the field and keep the D honest, heck even taking a shot downfield with him shouldnt hurt it worked in Baltimore besides the penalty.

Its no secret we need a big bodied WR in free agency/draft. Seems like the teams wants to resign Morgan. If they do then we could have Crab-Morgan-Williams-FA/Drafted player-Ginn(Who wont even have to play a role in WR as much)

 

[Flyingiguana]

i wouldn't mind someone like eddie royal to replace ginn. but outside of that i'd want ginn back. crabtree as the #1 option scares me, but it's workable with vernon around. what we really need is a brent jones kinda TE.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i wouldn't mind someone like eddie royal to replace ginn. but outside of that i'd want ginn back. crabtree as the #1 option scares me, but it's workable with vernon around. what we really need is a brent jones kinda TE.

I don't see how Ginn's presence has any bearing whatsoever on Crabtree's status as the #1 receiver.

 

[Flyingiguana]

we're gonna need the kick returns to make up for the lack of offense by having a #2 guy as the #1 option

 

[EaseUrStorm]

I'd still like to keep Ginn as KR/emergency WR. I'd only want to keep him on the cheap though (which might not happen).

Williams looks real good times as a returner but has also been shaky with ball security/awareness. This should improve in time, but right now he makes me a little nervous that he'll muff a punt, fumble, or get himself hurt again.

Williams > Ginn as a receiver but I still think Ginn > than most 4th/5th WR options with what he brings with his return ability. One big thing right now is I'm more confident he won't shoot us in the foot returning punts with a game changing mistake that this offense can't make up against a playoff team.

 

[MW49ers5]

i wouldn't mind someone like eddie royal to replace ginn. but outside of that i'd want ginn back. crabtree as the #1 option scares me, but it's workable with vernon around. what we really need is a brent jones kinda TE.

You & I agree on this - Actually, I don't see Crabtree ever being a #1 receiver at the level of a Fitz or Calvin or any of the others capable of breaking a game open. Truth is, right now we have 3 WR's that will be competing for the role of a #2 WR next season.

Ginn, if he could improve his reliability as a receiver would be our #1.

 

[numone9er]

Zero worries? Ginn runs mediocre routes, has poor concentration, and bad hands. You mention his concentration, but even when he watches the ball in he's as unreliable as they come. Forget making a tough grab on an off-target throw. He doesn't have the strength to go up and get the ball against coverage, and his quickness in the short area is only ok. The only area where he is even above average is his straight-line speed, which is admittedly elite, but is largely offset by his poor awareness and bad hands.

You've been saying all year that you really like Ginn. I can't help but wonder if we're watching the same player. Ginn has had a bigger impact running the ball than catching it this season. He isn't close to being a #1 receiver, and while his hands are probably the biggest problem - and it is his hands at least as much as his concentration - they are far from the only thing keeping him from being a #1 or even a #2 receiver. His return ability demands that we consider keeping him, though Williams had a nice game last week before the injury, but the passing offense would lose next to nothing by subtracting Ginn IMO.

I agree 100%. The only thing we would lose without him is his return abilities, and they haven't been so great since teams watched film on that first Seattle game.

 

[mufasa76]

Nooo Kidding!!!...In a pin-our-ears-back attack, Aldon might have 20 sacks next year!

I can see that happening, that kid is special....

 

[MW49ers5]

I agree 100%. The only thing we would lose without him is his return abilities, and they haven't been so great since teams watched film on that first Seattle game.

Haven't been so great? One, he was the second best RS in the league before he got injured - How is that not great? What adjective would you use to define that level of performance?

 

[MW49ers5]

I can see that happening, that kid is special....

Yeah, he has an aweful lot of moves for a rookie and he is only going to get better. He is the real deal - helluva draft pick.