Crabtree

[imac_21]

Hey Liar - You are catching on - a little

Now pay attention - First Imac is an idiot and following his lead will only make you look more stupid than you already are unless of course you are Imac then it's a close race between you and, well, you.

Second, my arguments rarely, if ever, overlook anything - you should know this by now.

Therefore

1) Ginn has as much or more athleticism as any of our WR's
2) Ginn runs some of the best routes on our WR squad - Period!
3) Ginn has very good hands - please, wave your "I'm Stupid" flag on this.
4) Ginn use to run track in HS and is the fastest from a dead start than ANY of our WR (Here let me wave your I'm stupid flag for you)
5) Ginn has excellent, perhaps even the best awareness of any of our other WR's
6) Ginn has what I would describe as a very low propensity to go out of bounds - In fact it is his propensity that aids in his fatal flaw
7) Ginn has an excellent range, better than Crabtree in the low zone.
8) Ginn has as much toughness as any of our WR's and is just as likely to go over the middle or up the ladder.

How is this guy not our best WR? You rank him at or near the top in every category you list. You said you have no worries about Ginn except his concentration lapses; you said if he could improve his concentration he would be a #1 and you said he was the closest thing we had to a #1.

If that's not our best WR. who is better? And how is he (are they if more than 1) better?

Please, educate me. I need to bask in your genius so I can see the light on Ted Ginn and be okay with the 3+ million per year he will get next year.

 

[MW49ers5]

How is this guy not our best WR? You rank him at or near the top in every category you list. You said you have no worries about Ginn except his concentration lapses; you said if he could improve his concentration he would be a #1 and you said he was the closest thing we had to a #1.

If that's not our best WR. who is better? And how is he (are they if more than 1) better?

Please, educate me. I need to bask in your genius so I can see the light on Ted Ginn and be okay with the 3+ million per year he will get next year.

Wow you and Crimsoncrew are the same poster - Keep trying - but you are getting closer...just a few more attempts and you just might answer your own question - because the information is all out there...

 

[imac_21]

When have I ever not explained my position?

Well, rather than starting another argument about it, I'll just say that right here you haven't explained your position.

You've listed his attributes (the quote is above) and mentioned in multiple posts that he's the closest we have to a #1 WR, but now he's not our best WR, and he's not even our 2 or 3 based on targets.

I would appreciate it if you explained why a WR with his skills is not targeted more. Why do you think his targets are so low?

Where would you rank him on the depth chart for eligible pass catchers on our team (please stop avoiding this question, I'm genuinely interested in your response as I think it can lead to some progress in this discussion. If you don't want to answer, just say so. Please stop ignoring it though)?

 

[imac_21]

Wow you and Crimsoncrew are the same poster - Keep trying - but you are getting closer...just a few more attempts and you just might answer your own question - because the information is all out there...

In post 261 you asked when you have ever not explained yourself. In post 263 you did not explain yourself. I know 263 hadn't happened at the time of 261, but here's an example of you not explaining yourself (and again avoiding answering a direct question).

 

[MW49ers5]

Well, rather than starting another argument about it, I'll just say that right here you haven't explained your position.

You've listed his attributes (the quote is above) and mentioned in multiple posts that he's the closest we have to a #1 WR, but now he's not our best WR, and he's not even our 2 or 3 based on targets.

I would appreciate it if you explained why a WR with his skills is not targeted more. Why do you think his targets are so low?

Where would you rank him on the depth chart for eligible pass catchers on our team (please stop avoiding this question, I'm genuinely interested in your response as I think it can lead to some progress in this discussion. If you don't want to answer, just say so. Please stop ignoring it though)?

Imac, show me where I said he was the closest we have to a #1 WR

 

[imac_21]

Imac, show me where I said he was the closest we have to a #1 WR

My apologies. You never said he was the closest we have to a #1. Apparently you don't express yourself as clearly as you think because I took your words that way as did Crimson (but I know, we're both idiots that aren't anywhere near your level). But EKMane also asked if you thought Ginn was close to a #1 or 2. So three posters took your words as being somewhere along the lines of GInn being close to a #1.

With the list of qualities you laid on him, I don't know how you can't think he's our best WR.

But I know how you could help clear that up for me and anyone else who is still reading this thread.

You could rank our eligible pass catchers two ways.

First, in the way you feel they were on the depth chart this year (you know, like I've asked a few times now and you ignore. Maybe I should put it at the beginning of my posts so I know you don't get distracted earlier in the post).

Second, you could rank our WRs in the order you believe they should go on the depth chart.

Those would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MW49ers5]

My apologies. You never said he was the closest we have to a #1. Apparently you don't express yourself as clearly as you think because I took your words that way as did Crimson (but I know, we're both idiots that aren't anywhere near your level). But EKMane also asked if you thought Ginn was close to a #1 or 2. So three posters took your words as being somewhere along the lines of GInn being close to a #1.

With the list of qualities you laid on him, I don't know how you can't think he's our best WR.

But I know how you could help clear that up for me and anyone else who is still reading this thread.

You could rank our eligible pass catchers two ways.

First, in the way you feel they were on the depth chart this year (you know, like I've asked a few times now and you ignore. Maybe I should put it at the beginning of my posts so I know you don't get distracted earlier in the post).

Second, you could rank our WRs in the order you believe they should go on the depth chart.

Those would be greatly appreciated.

First, I never saw EKmanes post

Second why did you imply Ginn was better than Edwards?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Poor relative to himself in his role in our offense? What does that even mean? Perhaps if you explain what that means, maybe I'll agree with you and that would answer your question as well.

Also, you added a couple more claims that if you can quantify and qualify, again, perhaps I'll further agree with you:

You seemed to suggest that a considerably higher proportion of his time on the field were passing plays,...What numbers do you have because I'm showing something completely different.

Also, you are claiming that Ginn's "...production was minimal and his impact plays were practically nonexistent."

Comparatively and statistically speaking I'm seeing relatively normal production from him and his role; and, finally, what do you mean by his impact plays are practically nonexistent?

Re: his role, Ginn was almost always our second or third receiver this season given the injuries to guys ahead of him. His production in that role was meager. In three starts, he combined for six receptions and 80 yards without a TD. That's an average of two receptions and 27 yards PER START. That's awful. We threw to him very rarely given the number of snaps he played, and it was even more rare for him to make a significant play catching the ball. The closest he came were a few first down receptions on 3rd down, but he only had a handful of those. No TDs. Only one reception this season that went for more than 20 yards. No receptions in the 4th quarter. Only one reception in the red zone. I think he was robbed of a TD against Baltimore, but even if that counted it wouldn't change the fact that he very rarely impacted the game as a receiver. I don't recall him drawing double coverage deep very often, so he wasn't particularly effective at opening things up for other players, either.

As for his snaps on passing plays, that's an inference. I didn't track all his snaps, but in the 10-odd games when he wasn't starting my recollection is that we brought him in primarily on obvious passing downs and to run the end-around or fly sweep. It could be that's mistaken, though I rather doubt it.

As for his impact plays, I addressed this a bit above. How many impact plays would you say he made this year?

And a question for you: if he is as skilled as you claim, why didn't he have a larger role? Why wasn't he our #1 or #2 receiver?

 

[imac_21]

First, I never saw EKmanes post

Second why did you imply Ginn was better than Edwards?

Where did I imply that?

Also,
Could you rank our eligible pass catchers two ways.

First, in the way you feel they were on the depth chart this year (you know, like I've asked a few times now and you ignore. Maybe I should put it at the beginning of my posts so I know you don't get distracted earlier in the post).

Second, you could rank our WRs in the order you believe they should go on the depth chart.

Those would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Imac, show me where I said he was the closest we have to a #1 WR

closest? he had what 200 yards? more like he's taking up space.

 

[MW49ers5]

Where did I imply that?

Also,
Could you rank our eligible pass catchers two ways.

First, in the way you feel they were on the depth chart this year (you know, like I've asked a few times now and you ignore. Maybe I should put it at the beginning of my posts so I know you don't get distracted earlier in the post).

Second, you could rank our WRs in the order you believe they should go on the depth chart.

Those would be greatly appreciated.

Okay, so now you are implying that Edwards is better than Ginn - Interesting - So how much better than Ginn would you say Edwards is...your answers will come - but lets focus on this first.

 

[imac_21]

Okay, so now you are implying that Edwards is better than Ginn - Interesting - So how much better than Ginn would you say Edwards is...your answers will come - but lets focus on this first.

Where
did
I
imply
that?

And how about we answer questions in the order they're asked, dad? I've asked you to rank our eligible receivers about half a dozen times.

Again, your avoidance of the question simply suggests you don't like the answers you will be giving.

From that I infer that your statements about Ginn's qualities were hyperbole because you can't rank him as high as your observations earlier in this thread suggest he should be and you have to go back on that, or you want to rank him that high but know you will be called on it and forced to defend an indefensible position.

 

[MW49ers5]

Where
did
I
imply
that?

And how about we answer questions in the order they're asked, dad? I've asked you to rank our eligible receivers about half a dozen times.

Again, your avoidance of the question simply suggests you don't like the answers you will be giving.

From that I infer that your statements about Ginn's qualities were hyperbole because you can't rank him as high as your observations earlier in this thread suggest he should be and you have to go back on that, or you want to rank him that high but know you will be called on it and forced to defend an indefensible position.

First, I am very confident in my answers...

Second, dad? Where did that come from...

Third, what part of:

"Okay, so now you are implying that Edwards is better than Ginn - Interesting - So how much better than Ginn would you say Edwards is...your answers will come - but lets focus on this first."

did you not understand?

 

[imac_21]

First, I am very confident in my answers...

Second, dad? Where did that come from...

Third, what part of:

"Okay, so now you are implying that Edwards is better than Ginn - Interesting - So how much better than Ginn would you say Edwards is...your answers will come - but lets focus on this first."

did you not understand?

Dad comes from the last sentence of your post. The one you questioned my ability to understand. You feel you can direct the thread and choose the order in which discussions happen. You're trying to parent me. I'm assuming you're a male, so I went with dad.

What part of "where did I imply that" in response to your statement I implied Ginn was better than Edwards and vice versa did you fail to comprehend?

Rank the eligible receivers in the two ways requested then we can move onto Ginn vs Edwards. Then you can show me where I implied anything about Ginn or Edwards relative abilities to each other.

 

[MW49ers5]

Dad comes from the last sentence of your post. The one you questioned my ability to understand. You feel you can direct the thread and choose the order in which discussions happen. You're trying to parent me. I'm assuming you're a male, so I went with dad.

What part of "where did I imply that" in response to your statement I implied Ginn was better than Edwards and vice versa did you fail to comprehend?

Rank the eligible receivers in the two ways requested then we can move onto Ginn vs Edwards. Then you can show me where I implied anything about Ginn or Edwards relative abilities to each other.

Oh darn, looks like we are at an impasse...See, because your answer is important to my answer... So, would you say Edwards is twice as good, 3 times 4 times, more?

 

[imac_21]

Oh darn, looks like we are at an impasse...See, because your answer is important to my answer... So, would you say Edwards is twice as good, 3 times 4 times, more?

Why does my answer, given all the names you've called me implying I'm not very smart and don't know what I'm talking about with WRs, impact YOUR opinion of our eligible receivers?

Do you not have an opinion if I don't answer your question? You can't rank our players without knowing how I feel?

You went from dad to little brother in a hurry.

 

[MW49ers5]

Why does my answer, given all the names you've called me implying I'm not very smart and don't know what I'm talking about with WRs, impact YOUR opinion of our eligible receivers?

Do you not have an opinion if I don't answer your question? You can't rank our players without knowing how I feel?

You went from dad to little brother in a hurry.

Excellent! I like little brother even better - I think you know damn well why I am asking this question and you know what it has to do with my answer. Why else would you avoid answering it.

 

[imac_21]

Excellent! I like little brother even better - I think you know damn well why I am asking this question and you know what it has to do with my answer. Why else would you avoid answering it.

No, I have no idea why my opinions affect yours.

I'm not answering it because

a) (it's childish, but) I asked you first.

and

b) I've you multiple times where I've implied anything about Ginn or Edwards being better than the other. You haven't provided either.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Looks like you don't like to answer questions just like Crimsoncrew...

I constantly answer your questions. But I'm still waiting - four months later - for you to clarify your statement that Walker, Davis, Morgan, Ginn, and Williams are "on a level equal to or above that of Crabtree." You know, that statement that I somehow took way out of context to mean that you believe that Ginn is a better WR than Crabtree.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

MW, simple question after I responded to your questions at some length above: if Ginn has the abilities that you outlined to the extent that you claim, why isn't he our #1 receiver? Why isn't he our clear #2 receiver?