Crabtree

[Rvnight18]

Eric Branch posted this in twitter.

Semi-surprising stat: In final 8 games, #49ers Michael Crabtree had 42 catches, 560 yards and 3 TDs.16-game season: 84, 1,120, 6.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Crimson, there is way too much miscommunication between you and myself and this response appears to be pointing toward just another example of that...

Just answer a simple question. If Ginn is as good as you claim, why isn't he our #1 receiver right now?

 

[MW49ers5]

Eric Branch posted this in twitter.

Semi-surprising stat: In final 8 games, #49ers Michael Crabtree had 42 catches, 560 yards and 3 TDs.16-game season: 84, 1,120, 6.

His catch % was off the charts as well...I think he improved more in his last 8 games more than he had in his previous ~32.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Eric Branch posted this in twitter.

Semi-surprising stat: In final 8 games, #49ers Michael Crabtree had 42 catches, 560 yards and 3 TDs.16-game season: 84, 1,120, 6.

The yardage is more impressive than the TDs, obviously, especially considering that one of the TDs was a trick play gimme. Nearly 35% of our receiving yards, though. Not bad.

 

[Rvnight18]

His catch % was off the charts as well...I think he improved more in his last 8 games more than he had in his previous ~32.

Agree 100% He is getting separation from DBs now because he is better at his routes. And he is catching the ball well. A lot has to do with Alex and him starting to get on the same page. More throws in stride so he can make plays after the catch.

 

[MW49ers5]

Btw, returning to the above, you've never asked a question you don't know the answer to yourself?

In an information exchange (educational) environment, absolutely - in a debate environment, absolutely not.

 

[MW49ers5]

Agree 100% He is getting separation from DBs now because he is better at his routes. And he is catching the ball well. A lot has to do with Alex and him starting to get on the same page. More throws in stride so he can make plays after the catch.

Can't find a single word here that I disagree with...I would add also that I think he is settling-in and becoming comfortable with his role on the team. Right now the needle on the positive/negative meter for Crabs is pointing solidly toward positive, IMO.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

In an information exchange (educational) environment, absolutely - in a debate environment, absolutely not.

So you're rising above the fray at this point? Big of you. What, did you run out of names to call me? Tell you what, I'll help you out:

Idiot - Synonyms and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

That should keep you going long enough to actually address the question.

My giving you much-justified shit aside, I am genuinely interested on this one. I readily acknowledge that you seem to know more about the nuances of the WR position than I do. So what is holding Ginn back from reaching his apparently tremendous potential? I don't think a lack of concentration alone could possibly explain it if he is as good in other areas as you seem to think, but that's the only problem you have identified with Ginn. So again, why isn't he our #1 or even #2?

 

[MW49ers5]

So you're rising above the fray at this point? Big of you. What, did you run out of names to call me? Tell you what, I'll help you out:

Idiot - Synonyms and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

That should keep you going long enough to actually address the question.

My giving you much-justified shit aside, I am genuinely interested on this one. I readily acknowledge that you seem to know more about the nuances of the WR position than I do. So what is holding Ginn back from reaching his apparently tremendous potential? I don't think a lack of concentration alone could possibly explain it if he is as good in other areas as you seem to think, but that's the only problem you have identified with Ginn. So again, why isn't he our #1 or even #2?

Crimson, I'm going to get a little philosophical on you here, so bare with me.

It can be said of our lives that where we stand at any given moment is equal to the aggregate of every choice and every decision we have ever made. Said another way, where you are at this precise moment in your life is where you put yourself.

One critical choice we have to make and one that impacts, even guides our journey is whether we choose to be the victim of our circumstances or accountable to them, and we must choose for it is impossible to be guided by both simultaneously.

Your post illuminates clearly the choice you have made in this area and I'm sure it wont surprise you to discover that my choice resides on the opposite side of that ideological question. Therefore, I will take the lead on this and tell you simply that it is time for this theatre of the absurd between you & I to end.

The reason I am ignoring your question is two-fold. First, IMO, you are not asking the correct question; I believe you need to think in less traditional/linear terms and more in philosophical/strategic terms.

Second, my answer would obviously support my position which I have already expressed and supported, and you have disagreed with. Therefore, answering it would serve only the purpose of rehashing the same debate from a different, and IMO, and even more senseless perspective.

I hope you will agree - it is time to move on.

Good Luck!

 

[Flyingiguana]

Agree 100% He is getting separation from DBs now because he is better at his routes. And he is catching the ball well. A lot has to do with Alex and him starting to get on the same page. More throws in stride so he can make plays after the catch.

crabtree seems to be a bit quicker too the last few weeks

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Crimson, I'm going to get a little philosophical on you here, so bare with me.

It can be said of our lives that where we stand at any given moment is equal to the aggregate of every choice and every decision we have ever made. Said another way, where you are at this precise moment in your life is where you put yourself.

One critical choice we have to make and one that impacts, even guides our journey is whether we choose to be the victim of our circumstances or accountable to them, and we must choose for it is impossible to be guided by both simultaneously.

Your post illuminates clearly the choice you have made in this area and I'm sure it wont surprise you to discover that my choice resides on the opposite side of that ideological question. Therefore, I will take the lead on this and tell you simply that it is time for this theatre of the absurd between you & I to end.

The reason I am ignoring your question is two-fold. First, IMO, you are not asking the correct question; I believe you need to think in less traditional/linear terms and more in philosophical/strategic terms.

Second, my answer would obviously support my position which I have already expressed and supported, and you have disagreed with. Therefore, answering it would serve only the purpose of rehashing the same debate from a different, and IMO, and even more senseless perspective.

I hope you will agree - it is time to move on.

Good Luck!

A few thoughts.

First, congratulations. This is your most convoluted and ridiculous attempt to avoid answering a direct question yet. What's your word for this sort of thing? "Shear" desperation?

Second, if I am asking the wrong question, pose the right question yourself and address it. Or answer VV's repeated questions about how you view Ginn's actual role in the offense, what his role should be, etc.

Third, you haven't expressed a concrete position on Ginn at any time in this thread, much less supported it. You have simply objected to other people's positions. That's why people, including VV who wasn't even engaged in the heated portion of our debate, keep asking you to state your position.

Now, if you don't want to take a stand, I understand that. You've painted yourself into something of a corner with your claims about Ginn's abilities and perhaps you're now finding those claims hard to support. But at least have the decency to be honest as you blatantly avoid stating a position.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

MW's just waiting for post #316 to answer

 

[MW49ers5]

crabtree seems to be a bit quicker too the last few weeks

It is shaping up to be an interesting training camp come next July - But first, New Orleans

 

[vvoland]

It is shaping up to be an interesting training camp come next July - But first, New Orleans

so i'm still curious, and in by no means am i being disingenuous or facetious, where you would take this team's wideouts going into next year's training camp? if you were the GM, would you look to upgrade at WR? add a true no 1? crabtree's last 8 games have been the best of his career but i still have serious reservations about his ability to be a no 1. i like morgan, but he's nowhere near the stratosphere. i like KW, but he's a solid slot guy, not a go-to guy or a double team threat.

i'm very torn when discussing ginn. he seems to have a lot of the tools needed to be a good receiver, but i haven't seen him put it together. after his 5th season, i'm not sure he can be anything more than the 4th receiver. i certainly discussed my view of our needs at the position but you seem to be far more detailed in your analysis of our WRs and i would love to hear what you think we need to do going into next year. in all honesty, i'm not being argumentative or trying to draw you into this debate further but would like to hear what a fellow niner addict sees. i hope you'll reply.

 

[Flyingiguana]

It is shaping up to be an interesting training camp come next July - But first, New Orleans

interesting? as it is now crabtree and morgan are starters unless we bring someone else in

 

[Crimsoncrew]

interesting? as it is now crabtree and morgan are starters unless we bring someone else in

I was thinking about this today. I can live with Morgan and Crabtree as our starters, with Williams out of the slot. It's not my preference, but with Davis and Walker at TE, and Hunter out of the backfield on 3rd downs, we have enough threats to make things happen on offense. I'd love to get a true #1 guy, but if we have a chance to pick up a very good CB or pass rusher, or an elite FS or G (somewhat more lukewarm on the G), I'd make that move first.

Crabtree has improved and, while he's not a game-changer, he can catch a ton of balls and keep the chains moving. If he and Smith actually get in an offseason together, I think he only gets better. Morgan was starting to look pretty good before the injury this year. He's got the physical tools to be a nice fit in this scheme. And Williams has flashed real potential coming out of the slot. I'm absolutely fine with Ginn as our #4 for what he brings in the return game an in terms of scheme diversity with the fly sweeps and end-arounds, though I think he might walk for a fatter contract.

I'd love to get in a bigger bodied guy, at WR and perhaps at TE. Our tallest WR is 6' 1 3/8", and our tallest tight end (Peelle) is 6'4 3/8". It'd be great to get in a 6'3"+ WR and/or 6'5"+ TE. Not sure how the draft is shaping up, but I'd like to think there might be options later on.

 

[vvoland]

I was thinking about this today. I can live with Morgan and Crabtree as our starters, with Williams out of the slot. It's not my preference, but with Davis and Walker at TE, and Hunter out of the backfield on 3rd downs, we have enough threats to make things happen on offense. I'd love to get a true #1 guy, but if we have a chance to pick up a very good CB or pass rusher, or an elite FS or G (somewhat more lukewarm on the G), I'd make that move first.

Crabtree has improved and, while he's not a game-changer, he can catch a ton of balls and keep the chains moving. If he and Smith actually get in an offseason together, I think he only gets better. Morgan was starting to look pretty good before the injury this year. He's got the physical tools to be a nice fit in this scheme. And Williams has flashed real potential coming out of the slot. I'm absolutely fine with Ginn as our #4 for what he brings in the return game an in terms of scheme diversity with the fly sweeps and end-arounds, though I think he might walk for a fatter contract.

I'd love to get in a bigger bodied guy, at WR and perhaps at TE. Our tallest WR is 6' 1 3/8", and our tallest tight end (Peelle) is 6'4 3/8". It'd be great to get in a 6'3"+ WR and/or 6'5"+ TE. Not sure how the draft is shaping up, but I'd like to think there might be options later on.

agree, pretty much 100%. i think, however, that its far harder to get a true no 1 receiver than it is to get a 'very good CB' or 'elite G.' in fact, at this point, i'd leave the o-line alone and try to give them a chance to grow. i liked what little i saw of our rookie linemen in preseason, i think they can start to compete with snyder/rachal by next season. we may be able to snag a G in FA that will push that tandem off the roster and that would help. that said, if goldson doesn't walk, we have a far bigger need at WR than we do at S.

in fact, our defense is pretty fucking good as is. our run game is also beastly. i think one of the reasons our offense gave up so many sacks and had such issues in the red zone was the absence of a true no 1. teams had no fear blitzing us and leaving corners in man coverage so a legit stud at WR would open so many thing on offense and lift smith's game to another level that, to me, it is our biggest need... by a long shot. that said, if rogers walks, CB would be 1st. as far as pass rusher goes... i'm a bit torn.. i like our LBs, aldon is beasting it up, j.smith is one of the best DLs in the league so i'm not sure where we get/put that pass rusher. replace brooks? maybe.. but he's been growing nicely and i think our lack of pressure is more design and system oriented than it is talent-based.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I was thinking about this today. I can live with Morgan and Crabtree as our starters, with Williams out of the slot. It's not my preference, but with Davis and Walker at TE, and Hunter out of the backfield on 3rd downs, we have enough threats to make things happen on offense. I'd love to get a true #1 guy, but if we have a chance to pick up a very good CB or pass rusher, or an elite FS or G (somewhat more lukewarm on the G), I'd make that move first.

Crabtree has improved and, while he's not a game-changer, he can catch a ton of balls and keep the chains moving. If he and Smith actually get in an offseason together, I think he only gets better. Morgan was starting to look pretty good before the injury this year. He's got the physical tools to be a nice fit in this scheme. And Williams has flashed real potential coming out of the slot. I'm absolutely fine with Ginn as our #4 for what he brings in the return game an in terms of scheme diversity with the fly sweeps and end-arounds, though I think he might walk for a fatter contract.

I'd love to get in a bigger bodied guy, at WR and perhaps at TE. Our tallest WR is 6' 1 3/8", and our tallest tight end (Peelle) is 6'4 3/8". It'd be great to get in a 6'3"+ WR and/or 6'5"+ TE. Not sure how the draft is shaping up, but I'd like to think there might be options later on.

i was thinking we might take someone like dwayne allen in the draft that would give us a 2nd option at TE and a redzone target. harbaugh likes to use TE's so we might be able to get away with crabtree and morgan starting. even tho i'd rather sign somene like colston, but it might be better to spend some free agent money elsewhere like at corner.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

agree, pretty much 100%. i think, however, that its far harder to get a true no 1 receiver than it is to get a 'very good CB' or 'elite G.' in fact, at this point, i'd leave the o-line alone and try to give them a chance to grow. i liked what little i saw of our rookie linemen in preseason, i think they can start to compete with snyder/rachal by next season. we may be able to snag a G in FA that will push that tandem off the roster and that would help. that said, if goldson doesn't walk, we have a far bigger need at WR than we do at S.

in fact, our defense is pretty fucking good as is. our run game is also beastly. i think one of the reasons our offense gave up so many sacks and had such issues in the red zone was the absence of a true no 1. teams had no fear blitzing us and leaving corners in man coverage so a legit stud at WR would open so many thing on offense and lift smith's game to another level that, to me, it is our biggest need... by a long shot. that said, if rogers walks, CB would be 1st. as far as pass rusher goes... i'm a bit torn.. i like our LBs, aldon is beasting it up, j.smith is one of the best DLs in the league so i'm not sure where we get/put that pass rusher. replace brooks? maybe.. but he's been growing nicely and i think our lack of pressure is more design and system oriented than it is talent-based.

A lot of our need hinges on who walks in FA. Morgan, Rogers, Goldson, and Brooks are all FAs. There's no way they all come back. I'm pretty confident Morgan will. The rest, who knows? I think there's a good chance only one of them returns.

If Rogers walks, CB is a big need. If he stays, I'd be fine going with what we have now.

Goldson is a big hitter and makes good plays on deflected balls, but I don't think he has special range or instincts. In the 20s, we might have a shot at a special safety who would upgrade that position (I've said before that my ultimate preference would probably be to play Goldson at SS and bring in another FS, but that won't happen).

Whether or not Brooks leaves, I think that spot could be upgraded. I like Brooks and he's a good story, but he's nothing special rushing the passer. If we could get two impact OLBs like Harrison-Woodley, Merriman-Phillips a few years ago, or even Ware-Spencer, our D would be downright nasty.

As far as WR goes, I agree that an elite WR is hard to find, but because of that I don't think we'll be in position to take one this year. It's possible, I suppose, and if there is a genuine elite talent, it might make sense. I guess I differ from you in that I don't know how much an upgrade at WR will improve the team so long as we have Smith at QB. I have pulled for Smith from day one, and defended him against the crazies on the ESPN board for years, but I don't know that he has that much more room to grow. It's possible that a dynamic and reliable receiver would push back the blitz if Smith hit him for a few quick strikes that made them pay, but I think that speaks more to Smith than his receivers at this point. If our offense is limited primarily by Smith, I'd rather make the D as good as it can be first and foremost. If value is there at WR, I wouldn't lay off. But I don't think we need to force a WR early by any means at this point.

 

[NinerSickness]

Whether or not Brooks leaves, I think that spot could be upgraded. I like Brooks and he's a good story, but he's nothing special rushing the passer. If we could get two impact OLBs like Harrison-Woodley, Merriman-Phillips a few years ago, or even Ware-Spencer, our D would be downright nasty.

Robert Mathis???

I'm not a big fan of the pass rushers in this draft. I like Nick Perry, but I was hoping he'd be a 2nd rounder. A lot of micks have him in the 1st now. Might not have worked out anyway because he's busy running for President.