Crabtree

[Crimsoncrew]

I also can't help but wonder how often we throw to RBs compared to other teams. I would bet a lot of teams are much higher than us (16.6%) in that category. Kind of curious that you would look at % to TEs instead of just doing it for WRs. We throw roughly 53% of our passes to WRs. That seems better than a lot of other teams.

A random sampling:
Saints - 44.4%
Chargers - 45.4%
Titans - 58.2%
Colts - 49.3%
Falcons - 59.4%

That's a completely random sampling, but it doesn't seem to me that we are hurting our WRs too much in terms of proportion of receptions. Obviously in terms of pure numbers we are hurting them somewhat.

 

[MW49ers5]

Would it not be better to just figure out what percentage of passes were distributed to "receivers", then kind of back into it from there - just a thought...

 

[Flyingiguana]

i can't remember another year where the announcers commented on how many times our wr's can't get open. can't throw to wrs when they can't get any seperation

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Not sure how you are quantifying "given the opportunities", Ginn was on the field for just 40% of the plays prior to his injury and what area's of his receiving skills are you now saying he has improved? (Serious Inquiry)

I think his routes have improved, though I would still consider them below average. I was thinking of his blocking, though that's not technically a receiving skill and is still a weakness. I think his awareness and hands have improved somewhat, though again, I still think those are well below average. This is primarily based on a comparison with last season, which may not be the best basis. I didn't see much of him in Miami, though.

40% of plays is not a small number given the production. Not sure where to find those numbers, but I'd be surprised if anyone at WR other than Crabtree saw the field more than Ginn, yet Crabtree, Williams, and Morgan were more productive than he was.

If Ginn is really our best or among our best WRs in the skill sets you have outlined, why isn't he being used more on the 40% of snaps that he's on the field? Why isn't he on the field more than 40% of the time? Why isn't he producing when we throw to him? Why don't we use him in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line? Why don't we use him in the red zone? If he clearly has great hands, speed, quickness, toughness, and awareness, why isn't he making plays? Serious questions.

 

[NinerSickness]

Great point Crimson. Ideally I would've found out how often the Niners target the #4 WR compared to other teams, but I'm not going to do that much research...

My wish to make Ginn the #4 WR is based on the hopeful hypothetical that they eventually get a #1 WR.

#1 Wr
2 - Crabby
3 - Williams
4 - Ginn

With Vernon essentially becoming the 2nd or 3rd option on any given play he's on the field.

 

[imac_21]

Great point Crimson. Ideally I would've found out how often the Niners target the #4 WR compared to other teams, but I'm not going to do that much research...

My wish to make Ginn the #4 WR is based on the hopeful hypothetical that they eventually get a #1 WR.

#1 Wr
2 - Crabby
3 - Williams
4 - Ginn

With Vernon essentially becoming the 2nd or 3rd option on any given play he's on the field.

Why how much they throw to the #4? GINN WAS NOT OUR #4 WR THIS YEAR.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Great point Crimson. Ideally I would've found out how often the Niners target the #4 WR compared to other teams, but I'm not going to do that much research...

My wish to make Ginn the #4 WR is based on the hopeful hypothetical that they eventually get a #1 WR.

#1 Wr
2 - Crabby
3 - Williams
4 - Ginn

With Vernon essentially becoming the 2nd or 3rd option on any given play he's on the field.

put morgan #3 and move the other 2 down

 

[NinerSickness]

Why how much they throw to the #4? GINN WAS NOT OUR #4 WR THIS YEAR.

I know! I already acknowledged this earlier in the thread! I'm simply articulating the talent level that's going to be necessar to play 4th string WR on the 49ers if they get a true #1 WR.

Here's something I don't get: You're so adimant about Ginn not even being good enough to be a #5 WR, but you lead the charge wanting the Niners to re-sign Braylon Edwards Did you want Braylon as the #3 or 4?

 

[NinerSickness]

put morgan #3 and move the other 2 down

Morgan is a FA, and I'd rather re-sign Ginn for his return abilities.

I'm not against bringing Morgan back, but I'd much rather get a #1 WR, and I think Morgan deserves more money than a typical #3.

 

[imac_21]

I know! I already acknowledged this earlier in the thread! I'm simply articulating the talent level that's going to be necessar to play 4th string WR on the 49ers if they get a true #1 WR.

Here's something I don't get: You're so adimant about Ginn not even being good enough to be a #5 WR, but you lead the charge wanting the Niners to re-sign Braylon Edwards Did you want Braylon as the #3 or 4?

I LED the charge to bring Edwards back? I suppose so. I mean, I started a thread about it. Tell me though, when has Ted Ginn put up anything close to what Edwards' best year is?

Who is the more talented player?

And if you understand the 4th WR thing, why would you look up how often teams targeted their 4th WR to justify Ginn as a 4th?

And here's another crazy theory, maybe teams throw to the guys with talent. Teams that don't throw to the 4th WR much have shitty 4th WRs. Teams that throw to the 4th WR have quality guys there.

 

[imac_21]

Morgan is a FA, and I'd rather re-sign Ginn for his return abilities.

I'm not against bringing Morgan back, but I'd much rather get a #1 WR, and I think Morgan deserves more money than a typical #3.

Ginn over Morgan is one of the worst ideas I've seen.

 

[threelittleturds]

I also can't help but wonder how often we throw to RBs compared to other teams. I would bet a lot of teams are much higher than us (16.6%) in that category. Kind of curious that you would look at % to TEs instead of just doing it for WRs. We throw roughly 53% of our passes to WRs. That seems better than a lot of other teams.

A random sampling:
Saints - 44.4%
Chargers - 45.4%
Titans - 58.2%
Colts - 49.3%
Falcons - 59.4%

That's a completely random sampling, but it doesn't seem to me that we are hurting our WRs too much in terms of proportion of receptions. Obviously in terms of pure numbers we are hurting them somewhat.

Well, I remember people would get pissed off that Frank Gore was up in the 40-60 catch range the last few years, and I believe he is down to maybe 20 catches this season. I won't pretend to know why that is down so much, but it seems from Gore's reduction in receptions that the 49ers did less passes to the RB this year.

 

[Flyingiguana]

i'd be happy if gore got over 40 catches. get the ball into our playmakers hands.

 

[NinerSickness]

Tell me though, when has Ted Ginn put up anything close to what Edwards' best year is?

He hasn't. But Braylon doesn't return kicks. I'm not interested in Braylon. I'm interested in bringing in a #1 WR.

And if you understand the 4th WR thing, why would you look up how often teams targeted their 4th WR to justify Ginn as a 4th?

To show how high the bar is.

And here's another crazy theory, maybe teams throw to the guys with talent. Teams that don't throw to the 4th WR much have shitty 4th WRs. Teams that throw to the 4th WR have quality guys there.

All true. You know what else is true? Sometimes players who struggle against starting DBs destroy backup DBs. I reject the theory that just because a guy isn't good enough to be a 2 or 3 he's not good enough to be a 4.

 

[imac_21]

What skills, AS A WR, does Ted Ginn possess that make you like him?

 

[NinerSickness]

What skills, AS A WR, does Ted Ginn possess that make you like him?

I don't like him as a WR. But I like him MORE than the kind of guys who are usually 4th stringers. I certainly like him more than Zeigler or Jason Hill.

By the way: signing Desean Jackson could make this a moot point because he's just as good in the return game. I'm for making an offer to him because I think his stupidity has already peaked, and I think his value has plateaued. Wouldn't mind having 'em both if Ginn comes for cheap though.

 

[imac_21]

I don't like him as a WR. But I like him MORE than the kind of guys who are usually 4th stringers. I certainly like him more than Zeigler or Jason Hill.

By the way: signing Desean Jackson could make this a moot point because he's just as good in the return game. I'm for making an offer to him because I think his stupidity has already peaked, and I think his value has plateaued. Wouldn't mind having 'em both if Ginn comes for cheap though.

Jackson is much better in the return game than Ginn.

But I don't want a quitter on my team.

So there's nothing you like about Ginn as a WR, but you think he's a legitimate 4th WR in the NFL?

 

[NinerSickness]

So there's nothing you like about Ginn as a WR, but you think he's a legitimate 4th WR in the NFL?

"Like" is a relative term, but sure.

What aspect of Zeigler's game makes him a better WR than Ginn?

 

[imac_21]

"Like" is a relative term, but sure.

What aspect of Zeigler's game makes him a better WR than Ginn?

Hands and route running.

Now, what about Ginn's skill set makes him a legitimate #4 WR?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Great point Crimson. Ideally I would've found out how often the Niners target the #4 WR compared to other teams, but I'm not going to do that much research...

My wish to make Ginn the #4 WR is based on the hopeful hypothetical that they eventually get a #1 WR.

#1 Wr
2 - Crabby
3 - Williams
4 - Ginn

With Vernon essentially becoming the 2nd or 3rd option on any given play he's on the field.

Where does Morgan fit in? I think he's pretty likely to return, and I would absolutely have him above Ginn.