Coyotes 11th hour saviour - Call me when its officially over lol

[KillerVee]

Can't say I'd blame you.

First you lose your team and then you have to cheer for the Sharks to win the Cup?

HEY! Don't turn this around on US.

 

[hckyfn15]

how would you categorize their tenancy in Glendale?

I'm not sure how I'd categorize it. I've been to plenty of hockey arenas, the building is beautiful and has great sight lines. The location isn't ideal. Gretzky & his cohorts ran the team into ground at a critical juncture.

As someone who has been a diehard for a long time, there was a time when I took a break from the Coyotes (about a year) just because it is SO fatiguing to consistently read about both losses and off ice uncertainty. You guys probably can't understand, but the average Phoenix sports consumer has been hearing about re-location/bankruptcy/ownership bullshit for the last 4-5 years. EVERY WEEK. How are you supposed to build a fan base with no commitment?

I'm not excusing anyone, I'm probably more pissed off than anyone that I'm never going to see another WhiteOut. But had circumstances been different, Glendale would have been a success.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

the only two clamoring loudly have been Hamilton and Winnipeg.
others I have heard about, PQ, North T.O., KC, Vegas - I have no idea how serious any of them are.
just didn't want to turn it into a Canada Giveth and Canada Taketh Away scenario.

I would say Quebec city has been the loudest about its intentions and they dont even have an arena (yet they already have an arena naming rights deal - lol)

winnipegs ownership has played it cool ... not talking ... not building up any false hope

but the writing is on the wall ... there are multiple teams in financial trouble and Bettman really only has Winnipeg as an easy turnkey option for relocation ... kinda troublesome ... i havent heard of anyone stepping forward in KC to say we will buy a team ... which makes me think the only way they might have a team in the near future is if it was OWNED AND OPERATED BY THE NHL

 

[Ties5o11]

1) That won't pay the bills.

But it will eventually, it has to start somewhere. First the buzz starts, then people turn on the TV's, then they start buying tickets, then they take their friends/kids to the games, and the market starts to balloon with a solid base of fans. This market really has not had a chance for the following reasons:

1) For 95% of their existence in the city, they have been a bad team.
2) The small period of time they were good in the late 90's, they played in an arena where 1/3 of the seats couldn't even see both goals! On top of that, they were capitalizing off the "new franchise" excitement that inevitable wears away.
3) In the last season and a half where they have been competitive, they cannot go two weeks without another headline saying the team is going to move. Hard to create fans when the fans assume the team will be gone in a few years.

Here are my reasons why the Coyotes should be given a chance. Phoenix is a historically odd market, sort of like Miami. There are a ton of transplants there, and not a lot of Phoenix pride. It has been the fastest growing market along side of Vegas for over a decade until the 2008 housing bubble burst. For the first time in a few decades, you are starting to see a number of born-and-raised Phoenix'ans (ok that was a stretch) who will call Phoenix teams their own, and are now old enough to go purchase the tickets. Remember, this was the worst NFL city for 2 decades, until the Cardinals got good, and now they sell out (even though they were miserable again last year). This team finally has new arena, new uniforms, a new identity, and a young team that looks to be competitive for a while. Give Arizona a chance to get behind this current franchise. If in 3 years we are having the same discussion- then fine- move them. Also, the Phoenix metropolitan area has about 4.3 million people, where Winnipeg has around 700,000. I know Phoenix has a way to go, but it does not take a whole lot of momentum to turn a 4.3 million person area into a profitable franchise.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again... if you want to move a team, move the Islanders. They have the worst arena in the league, no attendance, and they share a market with 2 other NHL Teams. The NHL would be much better served with the Islanders in a city like Milwaukee, KC, Seattle, Portland, etc.

 

[hckyfn15]

A good franchise builds a base. There were some good years, but a good fanbase doesn't just disappear.

I may be wrong about this (let me know if I am) but I don't see a whole lot of public outcry over the team potentially leaving.

There is outcry, but our paper blows and we have no concrete way to organize. The public face of the story (thanks to our stellar media) is that everything is fine. There are few people like me who are trying to spread the word and when we do, we are largely met with a "HOLY SHIT I HAD NO IDEA."

Take that for what it is worth.

 

[hckyfn15]

But it will eventually, it has to start somewhere. First the buzz starts, then people turn on the TV's, then they start buying tickets, then they take their friends/kids to the games, and the market starts to balloon with a solid base of fans. This market really has not had a chance for the following reasons:

1) For 95% of their existence in the city, they have been a bad team.
2) The small period of time they were good in the late 90's, they played in an arena where 1/3 of the seats couldn't even see both goals! On top of that, they were capitalizing off the "new franchise" excitement that inevitable wears away.
3) In the last season and a half where they have been competitive, they cannot go two weeks without another headline saying the team is going to move. Hard to create fans when the fans assume the team will be gone in a few years.

Here are my reasons why the Coyotes should be given a chance. Phoenix is a historically odd market, sort of like Miami. There are a ton of transplants there, and not a lot of Phoenix pride. It has been the fastest growing market along side of Vegas for over a decade until the 2008 housing bubble burst. For the first time in a few decades, you are starting to see a number of born-and-raised Phoenix'ans (ok that was a stretch) who will call Phoenix teams their own, and are now old enough to go purchase the tickets. Remember, this was the worst NFL city for 2 decades, until the Cardinals got good, and now they sell out (even though they were miserable again last year). This team finally has new arena, new uniforms, a new identity, and a young team that looks to be competitive for a while. Give Arizona a chance to get behind this current franchise. If in 3 years we are having the same discussion- then fine- move them.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again... if you want to move a team, move the Islanders. They have the worst arena in the league, no attendance, and they share a market with 2 other NHL Teams. The NHL would be much better served with the Islanders in a city like Milwaukee, KC, Seattle, Portland, etc.

SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME! I MUST HAVE DIED AND GONE TO HOCKEY HEAVEN!

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I would say Quebec city has been the loudest about its intentions and they dont even have an arena (yet they already have an arena naming rights deal - lol)

winnipegs ownership has played it cool ... not talking ... not building up any false hope

but the writing is on the wall ... there are multiple teams in financial trouble and Bettman really only has Winnipeg as an easy turnkey option for relocation ... kinda troublesome ... i havent heard of anyone stepping forward in KC to say we will buy a team ... which makes me think the only way they might have a team in the near future is if it was OWNED AND OPERATED BY THE NHL

 

[KillerVee]

SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME! I MUST HAVE DIED AND GONE TO HOCKEY HEAVEN!

You have set your standards for Hockey Heaven far too low.

 

[hckyfn15]

You have set your standards for Hockey Heaven far too low.

Welcome to Coyote fandom of late.

 

[puckhead]

SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME! I MUST HAVE DIED AND GONE TO HOCKEY HEAVEN!

Sharks fan, too

 

[forty_three]

The question is not about the health of the NHL in the market. It's about the health of the game in the market.

What does the hockey scene look like? Is it a large crop of minor and rec teams? How many arenas in the area? How booked are they? How many kids are playing? Is High School hockey a club sport or school sanctioned?

A lot of people rag on Raliegh and Columbus, and sometimes the attendance numbers justify it. But my son is in a skills improvement class on Sundays at one of the 9 arenas in Columbus and there are 75 kids out there (age grouped 5 - 9). They have three other classes on Sundays and one every other night of the week AT EACH ARENA. And they are all full. Almost every high school has a team. There are something like 180 rec league teams before you get to Adult bar league games. There are at least 4 or 5 goalies who show up for drop in hockey. Stick and puck open skates often have to turn people away. Drop in games sometimes start at 2am. Target stores sell real hockey gear here. Two different "chains" of stores that sell nothing but hockey gear.

I have a cousin in Raliegh who reports similar situation. So yeah, we had 8,000 show up for a wednesday game against Edmonton. The heart of the game is still beating strong here.

And at least as far as Columbus is concerned, most of this started when it was the Columbus Chill playing in an 8,000 seat dive.

Pittsburgh is a prime example of the game sustaining the NHL and the NHL sustaining the game. The Mario Lemieux effect. A generation of kids grew up and all they knew was Mario hockey. And they are starting to put talent in the NHL. Their Junior Pens team came here last weekend and I was shocked at how great some of these kids looked out there. They'd clearly been playing since 4 or 5. And the support from the parents who made the journey was phenomenal.

14 years in the desert and the real question has to be "When will we see NHL caliber talent out of the scene?" Judging by the reaction and the (frankly) victimized talk in this thread, you have to lean towards "never".

And for that, it's time to go.

And the impossible development of minor hockey is another reason I hate the idea of Vegas.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Also, the Phoenix metropolitan area has about 4.3 million people, where Winnipeg has around 700,000. I know Phoenix has a way to go, but it does not take a whole lot of momentum to turn a 4.3 million person area into a profitable franchise.

i guess it takes more momentum then finishing 4th overall last year?

Glendale has a population of 250k right

the way Ive heard it explained they would have been better served constructing a new arena in Scottsdale where there are citizens with alot of disposable income (even in this economy) ... this is 1 hour away in traffic

when I look at it from my perspective (and it probably only means anything to the posters here on these boards who know of vancouver):

where I live ... thats like me driving to a game in Abbotsford, BC

thats a tough sell even in a hockey rabid market

 

[dash]

iwhere I live ... thats like me driving to a game in Abbotsford, BC

To see the minor league team of your team's biggest rival...

 

[jstewismybastardson]

To see the minor league team of your team's biggest rival...

and when the moose come to the area the mental process works as follows

"hey the moose are coming ... thats awesome ... I need to go see that game ... i wanna see our prospects ... i wanna see Hodgson and Schroeder and this guy who came outta no where Eddie Lack ... but I gotta drive to Abbotsford ... on a Tuesday night" *end of idea*



btw dash: Gillis was on the radio saying they have alternative arrangements in place for the farm team next year ... baby flames might be gonzo

 

[hckyfn15]

The question is not about the health of the NHL in the market. It's about the health of the game in the market.

With all due respect, unless you are my neighbor or are involved in hockey in some capacity in AZ, shut the hell up.

i guess it takes more momentum then finishing 4th overall last year?

Glendale has a population of 250k right

the way Ive heard it explained they would have been better served constructing a new arena in Scottsdale where there are citizens with alot of disposable income (even in this economy) ... this is 1 hour away in traffic

when I look at it from my perspective (and it probably only means anything to the posters here on these boards who know of vancouver):

where I live ... thats like me driving to a game in Abbotsford, BC

thats a tough sell even in a hockey rabid market

Scottsdale would have been an excellent location and was the first location when we were building the Coyotes a new place. This is a great point.

 

[dash]

btw dash: Gillis was on the radio saying they have alternative arrangements in place for the farm team next year ... baby flames might be gonzo

I'm not surprised, it was a mistake going into Canucks territory in the first place. Now if the Meeses go into Abbotsford, that would be the right move.

 

[KillerVee]

With all due respect, unless you are my neighbor or are involved in hockey in some capacity in AZ, shut the hell up.
.

Unnecessary roughness!

 

[hckyfn15]

Unnecessary roughness!

He used his cousin's story in Raleigh to somehow suggest that Arizona's hockey scene is poor. If anyone has a specific question about hockey in AZ, as SOMEONE WHO IS INVOLVED IN IT HERE, I'd be happy to answer it in a fact based manner. I could speak intelligently about the growth of HIGH SCHOOL SANCTIONED HOCKEY as I am a product of it.

 

[puckhead]

He used his cousin's story in Raleigh to somehow suggest that Arizona's hockey scene is poor. If anyone has a specific question about hockey in AZ, as SOMEONE WHO IS INVOLVED IN IT HERE, I'd be happy to answer it in a fact based manner. I could speak intelligently about the growth of HIGH SCHOOL SANCTIONED HOCKEY as I am a product of it.

I read 43's post as a question, not a condemnation. fwiw.

 

[hckyfn15]

I read 43's post as a question, not a condemnation. fwiw.

14 years in the desert and the real question has to be "When will we see NHL caliber talent out of the scene?" Judging by the reaction and the (frankly) victimized talk in this thread, you have to lean towards "never".

That's an absurd statement to make unless you knew intimately the talent level/growth and overall picture of hockey in AZ. If he does, then fine that's his opinion, if not, it's just an ignorant thing to say.

I also didn't appreciate his victimized comment. NO SHIT I FEEL VICTIMIZED, A SPORT I CARE ABOUT THAT HAS A TON OF POTENTIAL TO SUCCEED AT THE NHL LEVEL IN PHOENIX HAS BEEN BOTCHED WORSE THAN CADDYSHACK 2.