Cousins played very well

[ATL96Steeler]

I wont speak for any one else. But I have been put off by his attitude. When a QB starts off blaming coaches, WR's and his line for his own bad play, it leaves a bad taste. In hind site, it looks more and more like his push to get back onto the field was insecurity more than some desire to help the team. To me, those are huge red flags. And it just seems he was doing more to wreck the relationship between him and the coaches, than he was to fix it. So yea, when a guy comes off with an its all about me and my needs attitude, I do tend to start to wonder if he is really worth it. I do agree he has gotten caught up in his own swagger to a degree and it has done just as much to hurt the team over all. Cousins might not be the athlete Griffin is, but he is clearly a better pocket passer at the moment. And he does seem to be more team and less me focused than Griffin.

Serious question...would you trade RG3 and keep Cousins?...right now Cousins has to have 2nd rd value at worst, I'm thinking late 1st by the time the season is done....RG3...maybe a 1st & 3rd or 4th maybe.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I wont speak for any one else. But I have been put off by his attitude. When a QB starts off blaming coaches, WR's and his line for his own bad play, it leaves a bad taste. In hind site, it looks more and more like his push to get back onto the field was insecurity more than some desire to help the team. To me, those are huge red flags. And it just seems he was doing more to wreck the relationship between him and the coaches, than he was to fix it. So yea, when a guy comes off with an its all about me and my needs attitude, I do tend to start to wonder if he is really worth it. I do agree he has gotten caught up in his own swagger to a degree and it has done just as much to hurt the team over all. Cousins might not be the athlete Griffin is, but he is clearly a better pocket passer at the moment. And he does seem to be more team and less me focused than Griffin.

You could be correct. However - he is a young guy & an intelligent one & I would have to believe that he can change his ways. In that regard - perhaps the benching is a good move since it provides him with a kick in the butt. I just don't believe that RG3 is not capable of change & find it incredible that many people are willing to write off someone like this so early in their career.

 

[Sharkinva]

Serious question...would you trade RG3 and keep Cousins?...right now Cousins has to have 2nd rd value at worst, I'm thinking late 1st by the time the season is done....RG3...maybe a 1st & 3rd or 4th maybe.

Serious answer. No I wouldnt trade either. We wont get back half what we gave up for Griffin. And while I have serious doubts about him at this point, I also realize you cant give up on him either.

And I would hold onto Cousins simply for the fact that if Griffin does flame out, Cousins is a viable option to put in and has shown he can run the offense. More over I think Cousins could run just about any offense you put him in save for the read option.

 

[deanpet21]

If you can trade RG3 for J. Clowney and a 2nd round pick I would consider it. Especially if Shanny stays as coach.

 

[Sharkinva]

You could be correct. However - he is a young guy & an intelligent one & I would have to believe that he can change his ways. In that regard - perhaps the benching is a good move since it provides him with a kick in the butt. I just don't believe that RG3 is not capable of change & find it incredible that many people are willing to write off someone like this so early in their career.

I think this is where you miss my point. I dont think we should write him off. I do think that going all in with no fall back plan is a serious mistake. He has shown signs of a me-centric attitude. The worst thing this team can do is feed into that by firing the coach, trading Cousins away and basically telling RG3 that its his show and thats all that matters. I think he can be fixed from a performance stand point. But that wont happen until he has a serious attitude adjustment. And firing the coach just reinforces what I think is a bad attitude trait.

 

[j_y19]

Serious question...would you trade RG3 and keep Cousins?...right now Cousins has to have 2nd rd value at worst, I'm thinking late 1st by the time the season is done....RG3...maybe a 1st & 3rd or 4th maybe.

I wouldn't. Shark will disagree. Let's not lose sight of what RG3 has done.

His positives:

He was the heisman trophy winner with close to a 70% rating in college. He was ROY last year setting many rookie QB records and was ranked in the top 5 QBs in the league. He again had a high 60s completion %. He has always been an accurate passer. He has world class speed. He is highly intelligent, earning his degree in 3 1/2 years. He is a worker. He will spend more time making himself better than almost anyone on your team. He is a goal setter and achieves his goals. He has always been a leader. Captain of his college team since sophomore year. Voted captain (by his teammates) of the Skins as a rookie.

His negatives:

Comes from a college offense that was option based. Never had to learn to pre read a defense or use a route tree. He is a bit of a loner, his best friends tend to be family, he may not respond well to different coaching types. He has never had to deal with any negative press concerning his play. He may be a bit internally focused and not always willing to admit his weaknesses. His goals may be more personal that team focused. He was/is a bit naive as to what to expect at the NFL level. His mechanics have regressed due to his injury and lack of proper recovery time. He has become gun shy in the pocket, staring down one receiver and if not there, taking off. He hasn't learned to slide or step up in the pocket. He tends to put himself in situations where he takes big hits. He hasn't learned to throw the ball away when a play breaks down.


I'm sure others will comment. To me, his positives are much greater than his negatives. Assuming he can be focused to work on the right things (set the right goals), he has premier physical and mental tools that dictate he should be able to overcome many of his current shortcomings with practice and experience. The bottom line is his upside is much higher that Kirk's. IMO, Robert has the opportunity to be an elite QB. Kirk has the ability to be a good QB, but probably not a game changer. I see Kirk and an Andy Dalton of similar capabilities.

So I think it would make no sense to trade RG3. Is there risk? Absolutely. He is one knee shot away from being done. He may always bristle at coaches that try and change his style. He may never adapt to the NFL. But I think these risks are small (maybe not he injury) and are clearly worth it.

 

[deanpet21]

But if we can get J. Clowney for Rg3 is it worth it?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think this is where you miss my point. I dont think we should write him off. I do think that going all in with no fall back plan is a serious mistake. He has shown signs of a me-centric attitude. The worst thing this team can do is feed into that by firing the coach, trading Cousins away and basically telling RG3 that its his show and thats all that matters. I think he can be fixed from a performance stand point. But that wont happen until he has a serious attitude adjustment. And firing the coach just reinforces what I think is a bad attitude trait.

I see your point & could agree about keeping Cousins but not about keeping Shanahan. As I have stated elsewhere I would like to see them dump him but not because of the RG3 situation - because of his failings in other areas. At a minimum - I could go along with keeping Shanahan but only if the dump Haslett & Burns (it irks me that Shanahan should be viewed as some type of dictator who is allowed to do whatever he likes even if the results are awful).

I don't believe that it matters since I believe that Shanahan is toast.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

But if we can get J. Clowney for Rg3 is it worth it?

Wow - good long term thinking. Funny - people like you have an issue with RG3 and his attitude yet Clowney is known as somewhat of a head case. Good logic.

 

[j_y19]

I see your point & could agree about keeping Cousins but not about keeping Shanahan. As I have stated elsewhere I would like to see them dump him but not because of the RG3 situation - because of his failings in other areas. At a minimum - I could go along with keeping Shanahan but only if the dump Haslett & Burns (it irks me that Shanahan should be viewed as some type of dictator who is allowed to do whatever he likes even if the results are awful).

I don't believe that it matters since I believe that Shanahan is toast.

There is no way that shanahan can stay. As I stated in another post, the poison is already in the well. The situation with him and RG3 or Snyder will not get better. Trust has been broken and with these egos involved, will most likely never be restored. The press will never allow it.

 

[deanpet21]

Clowney is the best defensive player in the draft. Why wouldn't you want him? I think Shanny has a shot of staying if Cousins plays well. Plus why fire a guy who you owe 7 million too?

 

[Lonewate44]

Um....Lets see.....Because you can afford to pay 7 million for him not to coach very easily...... I mean come on...7 Million to Danny is NOTHING.

and


Better to get rid of him now, start new, and work for a better next year, then have him come back, not get along with the Qb....draft guys for his system that may not fit his replacement......his relationship with the Skins is too far gone to make it work..... plus...Mike wont want to be a lame duck coach...He will want an extension....a lame duck coach has very diminished authority over the team....no we dont want to give him another contract...

Time to cut bait!!!

As far as Clowney.......He is defeintly a college Talent, but that means NOTHING in the NFL......there have been tons of Beasts on the defensive line in college, but been marginal at best NFL players, and I for 1 would rather keep RGII then trade for a kid who could or couldnt be a difference maker...RGIII can be...has been...will be a difference maker in the future

 

[deanpet21]

I rather have the Mike and Kubiak offense than any other new head coach.

 

[j_y19]

More importantly, do you want a guy that will only be here for one more year spending your cap money and picking your draft that will chose players for a very specific scheme that will most likely not be adopted by any new HC? The last thing we want is Shanny spending money or draft picks on any new smaller, quicker OL that may work in a zone read offense, but can't survive in the more common power blocking scheme.

 

[Lonewate44]

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Serious answer. No I wouldnt trade either. We wont get back half what we gave up for Griffin. And while I have serious doubts about him at this point, I also realize you cant give up on him either.

And I would hold onto Cousins simply for the fact that if Griffin does flame out, Cousins is a viable option to put in and has shown he can run the offense. More over I think Cousins could run just about any offense you put him in save for the read option.

I hear you...I can't blame you on RG3, but I'm still pro on him...with the right HC I think he'll be fine long term. Keeping both...tough call, you likely lose Cousins via FA eventually, and your 1st pick is 34th or so...not a terrible spot really.

I would probably move Cousins if the pick were 2nd round or better....every year guys are found late in the draft, but you want 3 from the top 100 or so players if you can.

 

[deanpet21]

I guess we will see. I just hope we beat Dallas on Sunday.

 

[Sharkinva]

Lonewatt... lets be honest on the whole RG3 is a difference maker thing. He did very well in a gimmick system which he excelled at. The question of if he can transition to a more traditional QB role is debatable at the moment. I dont buy the concept that Mike and Kyle didnt try and improve his skills and basically said well all he can run is the read option. Yea we are going to bring in a new coach, but that does not guarantee fixing the issues of this team.

 

[skinz2winz]

Kudos to Cousins. However - IMO - all this is does is simply point out the real problem - Mike Shanahan. He was the one who hired & retained the horrible defensive & ST coaches. In regards to the QB position - if indeed RG3 was the problem then Shanahan should have benched him earlier.

Why wait until now? Supposedly - he had this "ironclad" contract which gave him full control. That should have allowed him to make the move. Was he perhaps too scared? Please -grow a pair. Time for an overhaul in the coaching area. If needed - they can also get rid of certain players who some of you believe to be the problem.

HTTR

Bingo!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Lonewatt... lets be honest on the whole RG3 is a difference maker thing. He did very well in a gimmick system which he excelled at. The question of if he can transition to a more traditional QB role is debatable at the moment. I dont buy the concept that Mike and Kyle didnt try and improve his skills and basically said well all he can run is the read option. Yea we are going to bring in a new coach, but that does not guarantee fixing the issues of this team.

Very true...on your 2nd part...the Shanny plan may have been to work in the pro style OFC this season as many have said, but in terms of his rookie year...I do buy that they needed to show results right away and regardless of who the QB was the best way to get results quick is to run what that player already knows.